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Stephen Brown

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Holes with Names !
« on: November 14, 2003, 01:18:59 PM »

I hope this is not a repeated thread, but I am curious.  

Do you like the idea ?
Where did this begin ? Why ?
Who is typically responsible for naming the holes ?
Should the hole names have anything to do with the hole itself ?  (Secession GC comes to mind with the Civil War theme)
 
It came up yesterday during a round at The Golf Club at Indigo Run. (HHI, SC)  I was playing with the Head Professional and asked if Jack had named the holes and he said it was done by a marketing firm.

Thanks,

Steve

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2003, 01:25:09 PM »
This is all I know:

Holes should not be named by marketing firms.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2003, 01:25:35 PM »
My home course does not name the holes--However, my children, my wife and I have come up with names for all 18, as it helps them remember them more easily.  The names are short and sweet, usually corresponding to some easily recognizable feature of the hole, the shape of a huge bunker like a butterfly, a huge pond, where a family of deer live, etc...

Then we can say, "I'll meet you in 30 minutes by "Stables"", for example, and this works perfectly.  For people who do not have photographic type memories for golf holes, as some of us on GCA do, this is a very useful memory technique...

I reckon this is not too different than how or why some of the Scottish holes were named, "Ginger Beer" for the cart, e.g.--

I bet my kids can do a better job than some of the marketers, in making hole names memorable...

I don't think they can repair bunkers as well as the Sweeney Clan, however!

Peter

LKoonce

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2003, 01:39:48 PM »
Do you think the marketing firms use focus groups to determine the best names?  ("I'm sorry, our research shows that the name 'Bluidy Burn' is considered too violent and must be changed to "Lovely Meadow").

What's next -- corporate sponsorship, e.g, the "Progressive Auto Insurance Road Hole"?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2003, 01:47:55 PM by LKoonce »

Don_Mahaffey

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2003, 01:55:59 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of named holes, but....names like
Railway
Goosedubs
Arran
Ticky tap
Lang whang
Maidens

do have a certain attraction.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2003, 01:56:34 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2003, 02:02:54 PM »

Two of my clubs have holes that have names.  I am not sure I can name more than half the holes.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2003, 02:04:05 PM »
What's next -- corporate sponsorship, e.g, the "Progressive Auto Insurance Road Hole"?

PERISH THE THOUGHT!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2003, 02:08:58 PM »
Holes must name themselves. For a name to catch on, there must be some obvious feature or characteristic that a generation or more of players have recognized and referred to, until the name of the hole more or less appears out of the mist, or comes out of the sky on a flaming pie, as John Lennon said of the naming of the Beatles (he was joking).

If a club names its own holes and has them printed on the scorecard by the time the place opens for business, that's kind of like the chubby kid who goes to summer camp and tries to hang a nickname on himself before the other kids start calling him "Fats."

 
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

JohnV

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2003, 02:25:21 PM »
My regular foursome at Pumpkin Ridge didn't name holes, but we did name bunkers.

There were named in the following order over time:

The Bunker of Death - left of #7 in drive zone
The Bunker of Serious Illness - left of #13 in the drive zone
The Bunker of the Thrown Driver - left of #14 in the drive zone.

If you hit it into TBotTD you were required to throw your driver, but only when playing from the 450 tee, not the 470 one.

One friend hooked his driver into the wetlands, but was able to save it by reaching down from the bridge that ran from 13.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2003, 02:30:44 PM »
The only two courses with named holes that seem appropriate are TOC and NGLA. Perhaps North Berwick and Dornoch, but I don't know all the holes on those courses.
  Otherwise, named holes seem an affectation (not suprised marketing is involved).
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

LKoonce

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2003, 02:33:06 PM »
Holes must name themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly.  It should be an organic process, like the maturation of a course in general -- layers that are added over time, so that each hole is defined by its own characteristics, rather than being defined in advance so that the hole has to live up to or conform to the original expectation.

Not to pick unfairly on a course that I really enjoyed, but when I played Kauri Cliffs last year there was a par four named "Temptation" because it was reachable from the tee by a long hitter.  I kept thinking: I'd rather BE tempted than have someone tell me that I should be tempted...

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2003, 02:52:08 PM »
Does anyone know why the 14th at Royal Dornoch is called "Foxey?"  (I don't, just asking!!  ???)

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2003, 04:10:50 PM »
What's next -- corporate sponsorship, e.g, the "Progressive Auto Insurance Road Hole"?

I may be mistaken, but I do believe I saw a corporate sponsor's name affixed to that Zone of Reliability (I think that was the name) graphic deal that ABC superimposed on the putting greens at last week's Tour Championship.

Got me thinking about a piece by my colleague Rick Shefchik -- a very prescient piece, from the St. Paul Pioneer Press of 4/19/1991 (which, apropos of nothing, was 216 years and one day after Paul Revere's ride -- though, of course, I didn't need to tell that to those of you still alive who remember that famous day and year).

Here's the piece:

I went to a Twins game last weekend. At least, I'm pretty sure it was a Twins game. I definitely noticed some baseball in between the General Tire scoreboard race, the "comic" sound bites, the "guess the attendance" game, the baseball-bloopers tape, the Abbott and Costello "Who's on First?" routine, and the embarrassing "Ballpark Jeopardy" game hosted live by WCCO-TV anchor Don Shelby.

I fell into a troubled, fitful sleep upon returning home that night and dreamed that five years had gone by. The Twins were coming off their second straight 10th-place finish (the American League had expanded again), and hardly anyone was going to the Metrodome anymore.

As usual, nostalgic idealists were urging the Twins to build a new outdoor ballpark, cut out the glitzy promotions and put the emphasis back on developing a strong young baseball team, but new owners Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis decided that the club simply needed more marketing gimmicks.

Where the club had once made do with a handful of sponsored tie-ins, like the Snapper Mow 'em Down Inning, the Twins broadcasts were now wall-to-wall ads.

I dreamed that I was listening to John Gordon doing play-by-play of a game between the Twins and the Brewers:

"Hi again, everybody, and welcome to another Flyte Tyme production of the Minnesota Twins," Gordon said. "We're ready for the ceremonial tossing of the First Banks first ball, right after we listen to `The Starkist Spangled Banner.' "

I tossed and turned as Charlie the Tuna burbled our national anthem while the flag was superimposed over a can of chunk light tuna (in spring water) on the DiamondVision screen.

"OK, fans, we're ready to start the first game of this Dairy Queen double dip. The first Aunt Jemima Pancake Batter for the Twins today is Kirby `Vacuum' Puckett. Puckett takes a Brotherhood of Railway Workers strike right down the middle from the Brewers' Old Style pitcher, Chris Bosio. Bosio misses low and away with a White Castle slider... and misses up and in with some Kingsford Charcoal smoke. There's an Ultra Pampers change that's down and dirty, and Bosio's got himself into a Smucker's jam here, folks. With a name like Smucker's, you know this next pitch has got to be good. And there's ball four, and Kirby Vacuum has himself an MTC free pass to first base.

"Batting second for the Twins today is catcher Derek `ValleyFair' Parks. Bosio goes into his Domino's 30-minutes-or-less delivery, and Parks hits a Green Giant can o' corn to second. One away, and here's Tom Thumb shortstop Scott `Towels' Leius. Leius bounces one out to second. It's a Planned Parenthood fielder's choice at second base. Two down, and the Hefty Yard Bags cleanup hitter, Paul Sorrento, strides to the Royal Doulton plate. Bosio goes into his Duncan Yo-Yo windup... it's swung on and ripped into right-center `Mrs.' field... the ball's rolling to the wall-Mart, Leius rounds third and heads for Edina Realty home, here comes the throw, and he's out! Oh, Leius was Oscar Meyer dead meat on that one, folks. That was another Downy Fabric softener hang-em-out-to-dry assist."

I woke up in a cold sweat during the Playtex Seventh Inning Stretch.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2003, 05:49:56 PM »
The Reliability Zone is SOOOO stupid. I can just imagine them thinking, "well we've got all this technology, what else can we do with it to make the game more interesting to watch?"
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2003, 06:37:32 PM »
A.W. Tillinghast was a strong proponent of giving holes names. He felt that it helped distinquish hole 11 from all other hole 11's by being given a name that fit it's character. In "The Course Beautiful", Tillinghast notes that native Americans reserved naming their children under some important event occured in their lives. People are individuals, and their name should reflect that unique personality, golf holes are no different.

Tyler Kearns

Doane McTork

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2003, 06:38:15 PM »
 They should never, under any circumstances, be named with the intent of honoring a lady.  This practice has the exact opposite effect.

 ________'s Hole !?

 The only exceptions may be for an ex-wife or mother-in-law since they sometimes aren't ladies.


ian

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2003, 07:21:33 PM »
Every hole should have a name, it adds to the experience.

South America is may favourite, because of the funny story.

I love many such as: Pandimonium, Cliffhanger, Tickly Tap, Killiecrankie, Glower O" Em, Too Hard (2nd hole), Mousetrap, Temptation, Sahara, Alcatraz, The Abyss, Hame Noo, Himilayas, Dormie Two, Heich O' Fash (height of trouble), Needles E's.

When a hole has a name that either tells a story or describes the hole, it just adds to the lore of the golf course.

A also like bunker names too: Coffins, Pandimonium, Devil's A, etc etc.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2003, 07:48:20 PM »
Clever  or descriptive names are unforgetable. Most recently I had the pleasure of immediatly catching on to one at Forrest's The Hideout. The hole is a narrow two shotter with a massive hillside all along the left. Too far right and your tot. The holes name is "Dodge" and upon completing the hole for the first time I appreciated it, as in getting out of.

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2003, 07:57:19 PM »
At Charles River the holes have names:

The First, The Second, The Third, etc., etc., all the way to The Eighteenth ;D ;D
Best
Dave

ForkaB

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2003, 01:40:25 AM »
I'm with you Dave!

The only people I know that call the 14th at Dornoch "Foxy" are visitors and "White Settlers."  Locals and long time visitors just refer to it as the 14th.  No more need be said.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2003, 02:15:50 AM »
I'm hapy that Tillinghaust was brought up. No one wrote more passionately about naming that A.W.  His most easy-to-understand thought was as folllows: When we give holes names they are more likely to live up to the ideal of being different and worthwhile...when we treat golf holes as numbers they are more apt to be indescript and mundane. (Paraphrased with pleasure.)

Adam, my good man, you were asked to leave Dodge many lives ago!

Ian, go ahead, tell us what "A------" stands for! The hazard has been slighted by your polite ways.

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

hp@hc

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2003, 07:49:20 AM »
I'm with the crowd on this one - names on holes are great, but clubs should be careful to tag them with appropriate names - just like naming a kid, they are probably stuck with it 'til eternity!

Here are a few examples of holes at my club

Giant's Grave
Harry Colts (course designer)
Tavern (#9 coming to the . . . . tavern)
Feather Bed
Calamity
Purgatory

Here are a few more from Turnberry

 Woe-Be-Tide
Fin Me Oot
Roon the Ben (dogleg!)
Risk-an-hope
Wee Burn
Lang Whang (long hole)
Duel in the sun (perhaps a tribute to the '77 Open with JN and TW)

Enjoy 8) 8) 8) 8)


John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2003, 08:50:00 AM »
I would surmise that most of the holes or hazards we tend to know by name were named by caddies as away of describing their poor sap's play at the end of the day. "It took him 3 to just get over the alps" or "the poor bastard hit it in the coffin." This would explain the colorful nature of the names, as opposed to a contrived moniker by a greens committee or marketing firm.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2003, 01:59:52 PM »
I'm with you Dave!

The only people I know that call the 14th at Dornoch "Foxy" are visitors and "White Settlers."  Locals and long time visitors just refer to it as the 14th.  No more need be said.
Rich:
I always knew you had good taste ;) ;D
Best
Dave

laddy

Re:Holes with Names !
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2003, 04:48:37 PM »
I could not agree with you more on names of holes!  They add an extra dimension, or should I say character to a golf hole. In Scotland golf courses do not go by numbers but by names.  Wether you like it or not they define a hole.  Just as your name defines you and your existence.  

A good name sticks out forever.  When I think of great golf holes I think of "Thom's elbow," (#14 at Shinecock), "The Road Hole," (#17 St. Andrews), "Hells half Acre" (Pine valley), "Amens Corner" (set of Holes at Augusta), etc...the list goes on.  

These are all names that when said a description of a hole appear whether you had a good experience or not.  

Back to your original comment about a course named Kauri Cliffs (a course that I hear is amongst the gods).  I think the name "temptation" is a great name for a golf hole!  How many times a round are we tempted to hit a shot that requires absolute perfection?  I speak for myself when I say UNCOUNTABLE.  I would never forget a hole like that, and by the sounds of it you won't forget it either!  So, my friend I think "Temptation" will always be in the back of your head.  

Out of curiousity what did you score on the hole?

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