A par five first hole

[Steve Lapper]

Steve, I tend to agree that the par five should not be the strongest par five of the course. If the opener is a par four writing down a five isn’t so bad but a six isn’t any fun. Par fives are birdie holes. Where I live the par five opener is the best hole on a course with few good holes. I wish it were the last hole.

Tommy,


  The number written on the card is truly irrelevant in my book. In fact, one of my home courses starts with a par-5 and anything shy of a seven is acceptable in my book. 3-4-5-6 all shouldn't faze any player who understands basic math.


  You are right the opener shouldn't be the strongest three-shotter on the course, yet at 64yrs young and hitting it shorter every season, I find a nice par-with a possibility of birdie-is very comforting.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Steve, I tend to look at most par fives as par four and a half, even at 74, so writing down six, especially on an easier par five is really distasteful.

[Tim Martin]

Steve, I tend to look at most par fives as par four and a half, even at 74, so writing down six, especially on an easier par five is really distasteful.

Tom-How would you feel about carding 6 at the 15th at Pine Valley or the 18th at Yale?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Steve, I tend to look at most par fives as par four and a half, even at 74, so writing down six, especially on an easier par five is really distasteful.

Tom-How would you feel about carding 6 at the 15th at Pine Valley or the 18th at Yale?

I haven’t played Yale, but at 15 at PV I look at it as a par five and a half, the same is true for 7.

[Jim Franklin]

Indian Canyon starts with two short par 5s back to back, and it gets the round off to an incredibly slow start as everyone thinks they can reach in two, and rarely do. But at least after that its usually smooth sailing the rest of the round..

P.S Is Chambers Bay a par 5 now?

In Spokane? My round there was brutally slow.

[Scott Warren]

St Enodoc’s par five starter is the best par five on the course and maybe one of the best handful of holes out there. 


IIRC (has been 12 years next month...) it’s also bunkerless. Pretty striking hole in a few ways and a great “executive summary” of the course.

[Phil Burr]

The first at Glens Falls is a par 5, made memorable by one of the most idyllic first tee settings in the game.

[Michael Felton]

I've done several par-5 openers (as did George Thomas) - Stonewall Old and Black Forest and Barnbougle among them - but they are not my favorite opening holes.  If I were designing on a blank canvas I would not go that way.  A par-5 opener needs to be pretty dull or there is the possibility of making six to start, which is no fun.

I would note that there is a possibility of making six to start on par 3, 4 or 5 opening holes.


The course I started playing on opened with a par 5. Then the shortest par 4 on the course. It was great when you got off to a good start, but if you didn't, I always felt I wished I'd been in the swing of things when I met them. In many ways I'd rather start on a really hard hole that I'm likely making bogey on even if I'm warmed up and in the game.

[Peter Pallotta]

I appreciate Tom's directness here: judging from the several I've played, it's hard -not- to make a "dull" Par 5 opener.

Contrast that to the starting hole on Tom's home course: a stout 460 yard Par 4 with a challenging green where a 5 is a good score and an exhilarating start to the round -- the very opposite of the gentle handshake of a Par 5.

I made a 6, and I remember every shot (rare for me): a decent drive that leaked right, into the rough. A good long iron second that went left and a bit short (which was okay because I didn't want to be above the hole). A not very good third, a chip shot that ran long and left me with a 7 foot putt from above the hole for par. A frightening fourth, a putt that missed the hole left and kept rolling for another 15-20 feet, almost off the green. And two putts from there.

I hadn't had more fun on an opening hole in my life, and I walked off marking down my +2 and thinking 'Oh, this is gonna be a -great- golf course!'

That's what the opening hole at CD had me feeling and thinking. A Par 5 1st hole that isn't even the best Par 5 on the course? Not so much. I care about trying to shoot a good score, but not to the extent of wanting dull Par 5s, especially to start. And to paraphrase B Darwin: a rabbit and not a tiger I may be, but I don't want to be so obviously -treated- like a rabbit.

[Tim Martin]

The first at Glens Falls is a par 5, made memorable by one of the most idyllic first tee settings in the game.

There are so many good holes at GFCC that the starter though fun and with some good land movement doesn’t crack the starting lineup for me.

[Adam G]

A lot of the good par 5 openers I have seen are hard birdie easy par. Examples include LACC, Riviera, Bel Air, and Boston Golf Club.


BGC, for instance, acts both as a "preview of the of the course" and also as an interesting hole both if you go for the green in two and if you do not. The drive is a blind shot over some rough bunkers and a stone wall, which lends an air of mystery. Then you crest the hill and the hole opens before you, providing a nice reveal of the course you are about to play and previewing some of the characteristics of the course -- rugged terrain and bunkering and interesting green contours. If you want to go for the green, you are hitting a long iron or wood as your second shot of the day to an uphill green over a creek and deep fronting bunkers from a downhill lie. It's a challenging shot! If you do not go for it, it's a fairly easy layup short of the creek but the wedge to the green requires precision due to the internal contouring of the green. Overall, i think these par 5s are more interesting as a "gentle handshake" than a short to middle length par 4 since they give you options.

[Pat Burke]

Riviera
A pretty scary and tough to hit the fairway tee shot on a “must” birdie hole. Missing the fairway and making par or worse before facing #2 and #4 set up a tough start


Hitting the fairway was a like birdie or better in my head and a nice kickstart heading to the difficult second.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Riviera
A pretty scary and tough to hit the fairway tee shot on a “must” birdie hole. Missing the fairway and making par or worse before facing #2 and #4 set up a tough start


Hitting the fairway was a like birdie or better in my head and a nice kickstart heading to the difficult second.

I found 2 a harder 4 than 1. If I went even par on the two openers I was good.

[Kalen Braley]

Indian Canyon starts with two short par 5s back to back, and it gets the round off to an incredibly slow start as everyone thinks they can reach in two, and rarely do. But at least after that its usually smooth sailing the rest of the round..

P.S Is Chambers Bay a par 5 now?

In Spokane? My round there was brutally slow.

You probably caught it on a weekend afternoon where it does get terribly slow, but that's almost any public in the area for those time slots.  My buddy and I usually made sure to play first thing in the morning, so that's a bummer.

They had switched the 9s for awhile to see if that would help, but it didn't, so last I played it several years back it was in the original sequence.

[A.G._Crockett]

Unless I missed it, I don't think Pine Needles has been mentioned.

Great hole, and classic Ross.  It's nearly impossible to miss the fairway off the tee, but the second shot is somewhat more demanding, and the green is just a bear. 


Pretty demanding way to start a golf course, but a pretty thrilling one, too.  Great preview of what's to come...

[Jimmy Muratt]

The best par 5 opener that I've seen is at Sand Hills Golf Club.   It sets the tone for the whole round and provides ample risk/reward opportunity without the use of hazards.   If going for the green in two, a poorly executed second shot can still leave you with a chance for recovery.

[Peter Flory]

Par 5 openers that I LOVE:


Valley Club
Old Elm
Shoreacres (from members tee)
Exmoor
Onwentsia

I learned last year that Old Elm's first hole was originally a par 4 and the green remnants are still in the left rough.  The current green is pretty flat, so that makes more sense knowing that it wasn't original.  That is a really unique opening hole as is though- a downhill gentle handshake par 5. 

[Bruce Katona]

Par 4.5 holes (long par 4 or short reachable Par 5) are ok on a private course, but on a public venue, either and easy handshake or a true 3 shot par 5 are better to get the great unwashed away from the clubhouse/starter shack and away on their round.  There is nothing worse for the average public golfer than having to wait on the 1 st tee as the group ahead either attempts (and fails) to get home in two on a short par 5 or hacks it around on a difficult opening par 4.


Private courses are a little different - pace of play is self controlled by unhappy members. Public golf has the ranger police to keep things moving along.

[jeffwarne]

I absolutely don't care.
Would hate to see any design compromised by the need to make a hole a certain "par" right out of the box.
West Cornwall has a spicy start, a par 3 which creates wonderful spacing for groups the rest of the round, but besides the nice gapping, I have no preference.
If I'm really getting picky, I'd prefer not to see a par 3 second, as this creates the opposite effect.

[Ira Fishman]

Unless I missed it, I don't think Pine Needles has been mentioned.

Great hole, and classic Ross.  It's nearly impossible to miss the fairway off the tee, but the second shot is somewhat more demanding, and the green is just a bear. 


Pretty demanding way to start a golf course, but a pretty thrilling one, too.  Great preview of what's to come...

Agree completely except I have managed to miss the fairway on more than one occasion.


Ira

[Phil Burr]

Re-reading this entire thread I'm surprised nobody in this esteemed group mentioned the first at Spyglass.  Many consider it a great opener to a top 100 course.  I consider it among the teaser holes that mark the first four that degrades from there into one of the most boring, unimaginative architectural slogs for which I've ever been stupid enough to shell out $400+.

[Carl Johnson]

My club (Carolina GC in Charlotte) opens with a par five.  Most of the course is Donald Ross, but holes one and two are Kris Spence creations c. 2008.  Our one, a par 5, is an excellent opener.  Originally I did not think so.  Now, 10+ years later, I do.  For the average to high HC club player, it's an easy par.  (Easy is relative, of course.)  So it gets you off to a good start (or if you don't get at least a boggie, you're way behind).  If you're low HC or a pro, if you don't get an Eagle, you are behind. But it is not an easy Eagle.  I've seen a pro (Quail Hollow qualifying), go for an Eagle and end up with a double.

I should add, for club play, it's a dogleg off the tee, so once the players in front of you are around the corner, you can take off.

[jeffwarne]

Carl,
"if you don't start with an "eagle" you're behind" ?
huh?
Is it a driveable par 5?

[Paul Carey]

Most courses open with a par four-some like Oakmont a killer and some like Merion a gentle handshake. I think I have grown to like a par five opener. At some courses it is a good way to make a par or birdie before it gets brutal, like Royal County Down. Some set the stage for what is to come like Sand Hills. San Francisco and Olympic allow for a mistake and still make par.


When I was a member at Four Streams Smyers started us off with a reachable par five that put me in a good mood.

Tommy I loved the Four Streams opener.  Longer players or the right conditions allowed you to get pretty close in two and possibly a fairly easy birdie.  However the green was a mini 18th at Saint Andrew’s with a valley of sin in the front.  I recall standing over a 110 or so yard shot with the valley of sin as the defense.  The green was small enough that you could not jut past hit it long and two putt.  It was very intimidating.  Anyway, a short, simple looking par 5 with no bunkers within 300 yards of the green could be so intimidating and fun.  I thought it was a great opener.

[Carl Johnson]

Carl,
"if you don't start with an "eagle" you're behind" ?
huh?
Is it a driveable par 5?

[/size][size=78%]Jeff.  Not.  As a dogleg off the tee.  You (a pro or other stud) can mess up if you don't position off the tee.  Then maybe 220 downhill to a receptive green, but with really tough pin positions.  We only have two par fives (for tournament play) and both are pretty easy, but the threes and fours are difficult.  So, you need to score on the two par 5s (again, I'm talking the stud golfers).  So, I stand by my statement about starting with an eagle.  For the studs, birdie is easy if that's what you want, and might be the way to go (strategy).  Gets your attention right off the bat.[/size]