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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sand Challenges
« on: February 24, 2021, 10:56:27 AM »

This is likely a Northeast U.S. problem, but it has been and continues to be very challenging to get sand for projects.  Many of the quarries have been either shut down or have had limited production.  One of my favorites sands to use for bunker projects I have in this area is Valley Forge Buff.  It is a local sand out of Lancaster, PA.  It is used at many high end clubs in this area.  I have been concerned that the quarry might stop producing the sand altogether.  Availability was cut short last year and held up one of my projects from getting completed until last spring.  Lack of availability is holding up two other projects right now as well.  Price is also going way up. 

I am not a fan of the Pro-Angle sand which is considered by many as premier sand from Chardon, Ohio.  I also don't care for Best Sand which is also out of Ohio.  Pro-Angle was one of the first angled sands to become available.  It is expensive and both are bright white sands which I don’t care for in most bunkers. 


Any thoughts or suggestions out there? 



Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2021, 12:30:43 PM »
Every superintendent in the NE buys sand. I'd Ask them.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2021, 01:34:31 PM »
Mike,
I have reached out to a bunch already.  It is a difficult situation back this way for all of us. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2021, 02:03:24 PM »
I think this is going to be a continuing problem.  Sand is a necessary input for a lot of things now, everything from concrete to fracking.  And those uses all buy way bigger quantities than golf courses, so they get priority.  We had some trouble finding sand cap material for Memorial Park because of the demand from oil and gas companies in Houston.


I've also done searching on Google Earth and it's amazing how much sandy ground near major cities is taken over by sand quarries!  Of course around big cities it is hard to get zoning permits for a new quarry, so that is probably contributing to the problem in the northeast.


Two of my clients have in fact bought up land near our golf course so they can operate a quarry!

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2021, 02:14:53 PM »
Tom. I can remember when Lost Dunes was an operating sand quarry.  Highest and best use?  Wonderful course

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2021, 02:16:46 PM »
There is a global sand shortage, and it's only going to get worse.


https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is-running-out-of-sand
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2021, 02:17:50 PM »
This episode from 99% Invisible a couple of years ago had me nervous about the future of sand for golf:


https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/built-on-sand/


Developing nations are using up a LOT of sand in concrete as they focus on moving people away from rural communities and into the cities. How that affects sand in the US I'm not certain, but it is going to be a big deal globally some time in the future.
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2021, 02:30:02 PM »
Maybe (hopefully) this will be the start of less bunkers being built!
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Mark Mammel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2021, 05:51:29 PM »
It's not made better by the fact that for most ocean-side courses that have traditionally used beach sand (the ultimate in local!) for their bunkers. This practice is now considered environmentally unsound. A good example is Royal Dornoch, where the character of the sand in the bunkers is quite different today from the sand of 20 years ago.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Mark Kiely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2021, 05:56:00 PM »
Two of my clients have in fact bought up land near our golf course so they can operate a quarry!


Interesting. Do you mean solely to ensure the course has access to sand, or because they recognized a business opportunity and it will be used beyond golf purposes?
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 08:05:55 PM »
Sand as we all know, is not just used in bunkers on golf courses.  It has so many other uses and is a critical resource for superintendents.  I am genuinely concerned that we won't be able to get what we need this spring.

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2021, 08:33:43 AM »
I've been worrying about the same thing. The last few loads of VFB were hard to come by and we're local. Ever since New Enterprise took over the quarry, the bunker sand has been more and more difficult to get. I've always been very greatful that one of the best bunker sands was local as trucking was an issue and now this. I've looked at some alternatives but there really isn't anything that I like. The color of one set I looked at was perfect but its very coarse. I don't like the Ohio sands as they're too white and they crust over - although I guess thats somewhat ok if you're going for the Ozzy look (until a ball hits it and cracks the crust). Mitchell is now selling the VFB so I'm going to check out what alternatives they might have. The original bunker sand here was from Tuckahoe so I'm going to have to check it out again in case the VFB gets completely pulled but either way I'm not going to be happy about the trucking from Jersey.


I'm hoping that it goes like the USGA sand did a few years ago when it was in short supply. The specs were the same (or close) to what they used in fracking so golf became the minor user and had to wait for material.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2021, 06:52:00 AM »
Two of my clients have in fact bought up land near our golf course so they can operate a quarry!


Interesting. Do you mean solely to ensure the course has access to sand, or because they recognized a business opportunity and it will be used beyond golf purposes?


One of each.  The sand from the most inland part of Te Arai will help complete the highway up from Auckland! 😎

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2021, 07:17:24 AM »
This episode from 99% Invisible a couple of years ago had me nervous about the future of sand for golf:

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/built-on-sand/

Developing nations are using up a LOT of sand in concrete as they focus on moving people away from rural communities and into the cities. How that affects sand in the US I'm not certain, but it is going to be a big deal globally some time in the future.

I often think of this episode where golf is concerned.

BTW...99% is a great podcast.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2021, 07:38:59 AM »
Sand for cosmetic bunker purposes and for sand-capping fairways etc would seem to be First World issues. But sand for top-dressing and filling in holes after greens have been cored, that’s likely a different matter. Priorities time.
More dredging and scouring of river and seabed’s for sand extraction purposes going on these days too.

Atb

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2021, 05:32:08 PM »
People pay $$$$$ for dredging lakes and rivers for purposes of navigation, water flow, flood control, and for the benefit of aquatic wildlife.


The smartest man in the world, Bill Gates, is investing some of his pocket change in a process that injects CO2 into cement.  Maybe a few decades from now, someone will write a piece on the effects of the demand for CO2 exceeding its supply.


3M at its course in the Twin Cities used to have a bunker on the left-hand side of the 18th green that was filled with tiny round beads of a plastic byproduct from one of its processes.  It was blue in color, but played better than the cheap sand at my home course.




Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2021, 06:31:37 PM »
Lou,
Lots of things have been tried in bunkers instead of sand.  The problem is whatever is in the bunkers gets tossed onto the greens and onto the bunker surrounds.  Mowers have to deal with it and so does the turf itself.  But there must be good alternatives. 

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2021, 07:19:19 PM »
So basically the two most important resources on earth are water (but you can’t use the kind from the ocean) and sand (but you can’t use the kind from the desert). And third place is probably oil (but everything gets worse when you use it). Who designed this place?

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2021, 07:38:03 PM »
So basically the two most important resources on earth are water (but you can’t use the kind from the ocean) and sand (but you can’t use the kind from the desert). And third place is probably oil (but everything gets worse when you use it). Who designed this place?


Certainly no one from the ASGCA.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2021, 06:49:00 PM »

3M at its course in the Twin Cities used to have a bunker on the left-hand side of the 18th green that was filled with tiny round beads of a plastic byproduct from one of its processes.  It was blue in color, but played better than the cheap sand at my home course.


I'd forgotten that.  3M has had some legacy problems with those plastic byproducts lately.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2021, 09:55:59 PM »
and we wonder why golf cost more and more....in Costa Rica we can rescreen and wash the sand and keep using...of course labor is cheaper...
I saw some "thoroughbred" sand today on my project at Johnson City CC, Tenn...The ANGC sand comes from Spruce Pines, NC (close by) and supposedly all is reserved for them.  The sand is a quartz byproduct produced as a company there produces computer chips etc.  Knowing this I had questioned how we could get sand from that company.  Seems they had found an old stockpile that would work for a course or two...I would much prefer a browner product.

I just don't think we were ever supposed to think about sand for a hazard as much as we do...







"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2021, 08:30:10 AM »
and we wonder why golf cost more and more....

I just don't think we were ever supposed to think about sand for a hazard as much as we do...


This...............and it would seem more courses might consider sand from their own property(if they have that luxury).
Once upon a time there was a "home course" advantage where different courses had different types of sand, requiring different techniques, before homogenization and the "perfect" size/angle/color became so demanded.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2021, 08:59:33 AM »
and we wonder why golf cost more and more....

I just don't think we were ever supposed to think about sand for a hazard as much as we do...


This...............and it would seem more courses might consider sand from their own property(if they have that luxury).
Once upon a time there was a "home course" advantage where different courses had different types of sand, requiring different techniques, before homogenization and the "perfect" size/angle/color became so demanded.
A while back while building Beau Pre in Natchez, Miss, we realized about 2/3rds of the land was sand.  As we began to build the lake we went thru about 15 feet of sand and hit a vein of pea gravel.  We were able to build the greens and even use the gravel for trenching thru pout the project....nice find...when you can...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2021, 09:53:59 AM »
Back in the mid-90s I was selling a tract of around 30+ acres on behalf of the FDIC in north Texas horse country.  There was no financing available and it sat there at a very attractive price. I wanted to buy it badly, but was prevented by the seller's policies.  It finally sold for less than $10k per acre to a guy who was going to excavate a large pond for fishing, build a modest house, and run a couple of horses and head of cattle on it.


I later learned that the area is horse country because the heavy sand content of the soil was great for their hoofs.  Anyways, as the guy dug, he kept bringing up sand that he never expected.  He learned that the sand could be sold for much more than the cost of excavation and hauling, and the lake got quite large.  Reportedly, he made a couple $Million+ and built quite a nice property.


My bet is that as the price of sand goes up, so will its supply.  I hear that something called Economics speaks to this.  And if sand becomes too expensive for golf, then the minimalists of the world will get what they presently want. 

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Challenges
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2021, 10:04:43 AM »



My bet is that as the price of sand goes up, so will its supply. 


I think this is very true-see timber in the southeast(though lumber has recently skyrocketed due to the lag effect)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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