Why not replace those crappy trees on Riviera 10?

[mike_malone]

Rather than the problem for a few how about a huge bunker or some scruffy broken ground that affects all the shots over there. You would have a penalty lie for all rather than an aerial penalty for some.
Those trees look so out of place.

[Steve Lang]

   Don't they look better in the summer?  Does anyone know how Hogan played the 10th?

[Jim Sherma]

Was the green always so extreme? 20-30 years ago I don’t remember it being like this. Faldo was talking today that the lay up to the left is too difficult to justify, and that’s for the best wedge players in the world.


Can’t drive the green and hold it, can’t lay up to get an angle. The dispersion from 305 for these guys is greater than the area they are trying to hit into. Kind of a hit and hope drive and then try to make a 10-20 foot putt for bird assuming you can get the ball to stop on the green. Seems to be a bit over the top. Pretty fairway bunkers even if functionality is questionable these days.


How does the everyday club player approach the hole? Or are the conditions that much more forgiving for everyday play?

[Bruce Katona]

It is February in LaLa land, and not all deciduous trees have leafed out.  Hopefully someone can post a pix up of #10 in the summer.


Regarding #10; I watched the past 2 days, a 305 yard (300M) hole for the best players in the world has recorded more than its share of bogeys and others, so I'm not looking for any changes.

[mike_malone]

The commentators were suggesting that it needed to be lengthened as the threesome of top players playing it melted down.


I’m not suggesting changing the hole just opening it up to more interest from the left side.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not sure I understand why the layup option to the left is considered such a difficult proposition for Pros, even if far more difficult for lesser players.

Here is a screenshot with measurements I took using the Google Earth tool.

- The black line shows its only a 200 yard carry over the farthest part of the large bunker from the back tee, which is a long iron for most players. 
- The red line shows they have 50 yards to work with to carry the larger bunker and stay short of the 2nd one, which seems very reasonable for a highly skilled pro with a long iron.
- That leaves a fairly straight forward 80-90 yard pitch into the green, from a good angle as shown with the green line.

[Terry Lavin]

There are dozens of trees that merit removal, in my opinion. I was talking to some Riv members about this issue and they were rather attached to the plane trees on the property. To me, they looked like a bunch of wobbly sycamores that needed to go. On the 16th hole, IIRC, a big branch of one was propped up by a steel bar contraption that was painted “camo” style to deceive observers. That is offensive, in an arboreal way.


As for the trees on 10, I’d love to see the video of them being felled. A cheesy defense to a crafty short par-4.  But, then again, I love the smell of sawdust in the morning. Smells like victory!

[Mike_Trenham]

Rather than the problem for a few how about a huge bunker or some scruffy broken ground that affects all the shots over there. You would have a penalty lie for all rather than an aerial penalty for some.
Those trees look so out of place.

How about some fine fescue?

[mike_malone]

Rather than the problem for a few how about a huge bunker or some scruffy broken ground that affects all the shots over there. You would have a penalty lie for all rather than an aerial penalty for some.
Those trees look so out of place.

How about some fine fescue?

I would want something in harmony with the course.

[Phil Burr]

I have two ideas:


1. Create a natural-looking extension of the barranca from 13 that cuts across 11 tee and intrudes upon the space currently filled by the trees.
2. Transplant one of the trees from 16 tee to the space.  They serve little purpose where they are but they're also a semi-iconic image of the course.


Both would be in keeping with the character of the course.  There are no water hazards that impose the mandatory one-stroke penalty.  Apart from a wayward drive left on 1, there are very few penalty strokes at Riviera.  My options would create uncertainty and invade the mind; i.e. the barranca may give you a poor lie that forces you to chop out, but it may also offer the chance for a hero shot.  The tree might very well stymie the player, but might also allow a chance to play under, over or through its limbs.

[Randy Thompson]

What are the grasses now on the fiarways and greens?

[mike_malone]

I have two ideas:


1. Create a natural-looking extension of the barranca from 13 that cuts across 11 tee and intrudes upon the space currently filled by the trees.
2. Transplant one of the trees from 16 tee to the space.  They serve little purpose where they are but they're also a semi-iconic image of the course.


Both would be in keeping with the character of the course.  There are no water hazards that impose the mandatory one-stroke penalty.  Apart from a wayward drive left on 1, there are very few penalty strokes at Riviera.  My options would create uncertainty and invade the mind; i.e. the barranca may give you a poor lie that forces you to chop out, but it may also offer the chance for a hero shot.  The tree might very well stymie the player, but might also allow a chance to play under, over or through its limbs.

Sounds good.


Maybe just make it short grass and let the balls roll into that ditch.

[Jim_Coleman]

Mike: On CNBC, when a pundit touts a stock, he discloses whether he has an ownership interest in that stock.  In a similar vein, you should disclose that you do not believe a tree should come between a wayward tee shot and the green. 😀

[mike_malone]

I think that the tall palm trees are good but the little trees suck. I think you know what you think but not what I think.

[Matt_Cohn]

During the U.S. Open at Merion, I remember criticism on this site that on the short par four #10, the USGA had grown rough in what was otherwise the ideal spot from which to approach the green.


On #10 at Riviera, the ideal spot to approach the green is not only in the rough, but also smack in the middle of a clump of trees.

[mike_malone]

During the U.S. Open at Merion, I remember criticism on this site that on the short par four #10, the USGA had grown rough in what was otherwise the ideal spot from which to approach the green.




On #10 at Riviera, the ideal spot to approach the green is not only in the rough, but also smack in the middle of a clump of trees.

Was the left or right side at Merion?

[Pete Lavallee]

Funny story. The wife and I lived in San Pedro in the 1980’s and knew American Golf had a tournament there every year. So we both got our handicaps through AG and entered the tournament. On 10 she hit to the center of the fairway, which is of course a horrible angle to hold the green. Her 5 wood went through the green and into the trees on the left. She was playing an orange ball. There was a Coral tree there (don’t know if it’s still there) which had dropped hundreds of orange flowers and we never found her ball. Being her first tournament ever she asked “what do I do now.”  Simple I said, get in the cart and drive back to where you played shot and reload! She had only been playing for 2 years and needless to say I had never made her make the walk back of shame. Happily she beat the other 4 ladies in the field and won a nice sweater.

[David Ober]

How does the everyday club player approach the hole? Or are the conditions that much more forgiving for everyday play?

Conditions for regular play are significantly easier. I've played there a few times now during "normal" play and the greens are much, much more receptive and not nearly as fast. The course is very playable most of the year. For instance, on number 10, a well struck full LW, SW, or GW will hold to that front portion without much trouble. Even a 1/2 or 3/4 LW from 50 to 60 yards can be "nipped" and stopped to that front portion.

[mike_malone]

If Homa is one foot closer to that crappy tree a great tournament could have ended right there. Luckily he was allowed to hit a great shot.


 I personally think we shouldn’t have the possibility of a tournament determined by those crappy trees.

[JESII]

My feelings about 10, copied from a different thread...

Jeff, #10 has jumped the shark?  It simply demands good planning and good shots. The degree of bad luck is more or less equivalent to a miss in either planning or execution in my opinion.

As mentioned, I've not been there so this is just from TV viewing.

I think an easy 4 can be had for someone willing to settle just for that. They all hit driver because they'd rather have the screwy result on the first shot than the second. And also because it's 300 yards so they have to at least give three a chance.

On Saturday, DJ hit a perfect tee shot (with a 7 wood?) about 10 yards from the front left edge. Pin was in the very back. His pitch shot was ultra aggressive (flew about 30 feet into the green) and trickled into that small back bunker? I can't blame the green. Keegan Bradley's result was more wind than anything, but even still, he was then chipping straight back uphill into the wind.

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm not sure I understand why the layup option to the left is considered such a difficult proposition for Pros, even if far more difficult for lesser players.

It's because the green has become so small and severely tilted away from that front-right bunker that even the most direct possible 80 or 90-yard shot is not likely to yield better results than those gotten from trying to blast a tee shot up around the green and more or less hoping for the best from there. A slight increase in the size of the green would improve the prospects for a fuller wedge shot at a faster rate than it would improve the prospects for the smash-and-hope strategy.


 Back when more pros did lay up on 10, I feel like the day's hole location had a big effect on how many people layed up. It seems the whole field would practically always go for the green whenever the cup was in that front portion, but more would lay up when it was way back. But now that that back portion of the green is too small and tilted to make that shot worth pursuing, I guess it's a no-brainer to go for the green no matter what.

[Jim_Coleman]

Because of those “crappy trees,” we got to watch an incredible (even historic) shot.  Cuts both ways.  And luck isn’t a bad thing, especially on a 300 yard par four when your risk/reward tee shot isn’t perfect.