[Phil Burr]

There is one non-invitational US PGA event held annually on a world top-10 course, yet that event annually finds itself digging deep into the exemption list to fill its field.  I love David Duval, Kevin Stadler, et al., but shouldn’t top golfers flock to the opportunity to play Pebble three times in four days (and without greens fees)?  I can’t think of any GCA regulars who would pass up such an opportunity.  It’s been said for years that being forced to play with amateurs is a deterrent to many pros, but that didn’t exist this week.


Larry Bohannan of the Palm Springs Desert Sun wrote last week that due to its weak field, Pebble awards as many FedEx cup points as the Puerto Rico Open.  It’s little secret that the Crosby family is saddened by what the event has become.


Can the event be revived?  It was conceived in an era when the tour was a barnstorming caravan moving along a geographically logical route (SF to PB to LA, etc.), with players sharing vehicles and meals, staying in the same hotels and drinking in the same bars.  Those days are obviously gone.  Is the AT&T doomed to third-tier status because it’s not a major, not a WGC, not hosted by a legend, and can’t pay appearance money?


Related question: would other legendary courses such as PV, NGLA, etc. draw fields if saddled with unfortunate dates such as the AT&T?  Or perhaps most intriguingly, what about Fisher’s?  Like Pebble, not the easiest place to get to and facing other associated logistical challenges not encountered by most current tour venues.

[JESII]

Follow the money Phil!


The field in Saudi Arabia last week was ridiculous...not because of the golf course.


The charm of bumpy poa annua and a 47 degree salty breeze just isn't what it used to be...

[Kalen Braley]

Even Daly got in, what a site for sore eyes.. 

[David Ober]

There is one non-invitational US PGA event held annually on a world top-10 course, yet that event annually finds itself digging deep into the exemption list to fill its field.  I love David Duval, Kevin Stadler, et al., but shouldn’t top golfers flock to the opportunity to play Pebble three times in four days (and without greens fees)?  I can’t think of any GCA regulars who would pass up such an opportunity.  It’s been said for years that being forced to play with amateurs is a deterrent to many pros, but that didn’t exist this week.


Larry Bohannan of the Palm Springs Desert Sun wrote last week that due to its weak field, Pebble awards as many FedEx cup points as the Puerto Rico Open.  It’s little secret that the Crosby family is saddened by what the event has become.


Can the event be revived?  It was conceived in an era when the tour was a barnstorming caravan moving along a geographically logical route (SF to PB to LA, etc.), with players sharing vehicles and meals, staying in the same hotels and drinking in the same bars.  Those days are obviously gone.  Is the AT&T doomed to third-tier status because it’s not a major, not a WGC, not hosted by a legend, and can’t pay appearance money?


Related question: would other legendary courses such as PV, NGLA, etc. draw fields if saddled with unfortunate dates such as the AT&T?  Or perhaps most intriguingly, what about Fisher’s?  Like Pebble, not the easiest place to get to and facing other associated logistical challenges not encountered by most current tour venues.

It's a shame that the West Coast Swing is played when it is. Truly. They should play Riviera and Torrey in April/May, and Pebble in September/October.

[Kalen Braley]

David,

While I agree, given there is basically only Hawaii, Arizona, Florida, and California to play in January and February, I doubt that will ever change.  Pebble or Riv in February ain't the best, but its sure a helluva lot better than almost everywhere else. 

Even if you did a Florida swing in Jan to mid February (right after Hawaii), and then Cali/Arizona for late Feb thru March, that likely wouldn't be much better weather-wise..

[Tim Martin]

I’ll take Bob Hope, Joe DiMaggio and Willie Mays any day over Ray Romano, Larry the Cable Guy and Kenny G. I think the celebrity component has seen better days.

[Peter Pallotta]

You gents have summed it up very nicely, it seems to me. The only thing to add is my usual complaint about these darn new space-age micro-fibres and form-fitting golf-wear. It's the Crosby, for goodness sakes! You want to be comfortable out there:

wear a pair of thick high-waisted wool trousers (preferably in dark grey), a white cotton long-sleeved Brooks Brothers shirt buttoned right up to the top, a cable-knit or cashmere cardigan (in a lighter grey), a spring-or-fall-weight dark grey fedora in a wool-cashmere blend with a solid black band, and black/dark leather golf shoes with metal spikes -- and instead of a bottle of gatorade carry a pack of Camels or Lucky Strikes, and most of all play with a hangover after spending the night in a bar drinking bourbon and listening to the crooners doing the Great American Songbook!

It worked more than well enough for Bing and Bob and Ben and Sam and Jimmy for years and years -- but nooooo, nowadays we know so much better about playing Pebble Beach in February!

Edit: just saw Tim's post -- what he said!

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm catching grief in a story somewhere else for suggesting, no, demanding that they abandon the Pro-Am format. I think that the three courses in the loop are outstanding, and that they should take the best fifteen amateurs who will commit, from the college ranks, each year. That way, the kids will pay them back (a la Hartford) when they turn pro.


Tour schedule is set in stone. It will always be Hawaii>>Californina>>Florida>>Eevrywhere else. A third event in Hawaii would certainly help matters. Start with TOC, then do SONY, then get Charles Schwab to pony up for the last one. He can't be spending THAT much as sponsor of the Champions Tour cup. That pushes everything a week deeper into lord knows what type of weather we are having these days.


Pebble is awesome in 50 degree weather, as long as you have zero distractions (aka, amateurs.)

[Phil Burr]

It's sadly true that the schedule is set in stone because of money.  If it wasn't, my suggestion would be as follows:


1. Make Phoenix and Palm Springs first two stops post-Hawaii since they have most reliable weather, and then move on to SD, LA in February.  Phoenix loses its Super Bowl lead-in status; boo hoo who cares?
2. Leave for Florida a week early, adding a tournament in Miami (if there's a suitable venue that's not poisonous like Doral).  If Concession works, perhaps that becomes an alternative for another FL event.
3. Bump AT&T to September and pair it back-to-back with Silverado.  Give it prestige (and better weather) as perhaps the kickoff event of of the wraparound season.


Is it possible PB and AT&T work across purposes here?  Pebble is rightfully unwilling to give up its slot as a regular Open venue and having AT&T at arm's length from a scheduling perspective helps them do so.  AT&T is unwilling to give up its tournament every 10 years or so when the Open comes to Pebble, so they settle for an inferior spot on the schedule.

[Pat Burke]

Maybe my age memory is wrong
But there was talk of moving The Crosby To the Fall
But the resorts don’t need the tournament then it’s prime time.


I always felt a third tournament in Hawaii
Like a world championship or match play event would help a little


There is always a problem on the schedule and tournaments get slammed due to that


I’ve always been curious why a week off is so bad

[Mark Kiely]

Not that the Champions Tour takes priority, but are these suggestions of moving to fall remembering that they play a late-September event at Pebble?

[Tom_Doak]

Unless one of you guys is secretly the chairman of AT & T using an alias here, this discussion means little.  The TOUR schedule is set by the sponsors and they don't like to change it up.

[Mike_Trenham]

Unless one of you guys is secretly the chairman of AT & T using an alias here, this discussion means little.  The TOUR schedule is set by the sponsors and they don't like to change it up.

Or one of us is Peter Uberoth or Dick Feris. 


Seems like the resort makes the best of a bad week for regular paying golfers/guests, plus from what I understand the event is a good performer for the charities it supports.  I however was very surprised when they added the Champions Tour event a few years back.


What the tour did wrong was creating too many new WGC events two decades ago rather than elevating existing events like Bay Hill and The Memorial. 


Ironically the WGC events and Playoffs probably biggest impact has been to neutralize the importance of The Players Championship.  Until 2000 it was one of the few events each year attracted a high number of the best players.

[mike_beene]

A good point on the WGC issue: The tour has managed to end up with weaker and sometimes not even annual events in Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, etc. That is fine but at one time the Western and the Nelson were big events with huge crowds and money.

[Tim Martin]

Unless one of you guys is secretly the chairman of AT & T using an alias here, this discussion means little.  The TOUR schedule is set by the sponsors and they don't like to change it up.

Or one of us is Peter Uberoth or Dick Feris. 


Seems like the resort makes the best of a bad week for regular paying golfers/guests, plus from what I understand the event is a good performer for the charities it supports.  I however was very surprised when they added the Champions Tour event a few years back.


What the tour did wrong was creating too many new WGC events two decades ago rather than elevating existing events like Bay Hill and The Memorial. 


Ironically the WGC events and Playoffs probably biggest impact has been to neutralize the importance of The Players Championship.  Until 2000 it was one of the few events each year attracted a high number of the best players.

Mike-I think you are right in that the week to week tournaments that have been mainstays for the PGA Tour have been relegated to second tier status. With Arnold Palmer gone it’s way easier for players to pass on Bay Hill despite the reverence everyone holds for him.

[Joel_Stewart]

The AT&T remains a top event for corporate executives and celebrities to play.


There's no doubt the golf courses are fantastic.


The celebrity spots are slim especially since they slimed down the field a few years ago because of the 6 hour rounds. It still leaves around 160 spots.


AT&T still gets the largest portion of the spots because its the title sponsor. Those go to major customers of AT&T.  If I recall it's over 50 spots.


I counted 45 "Proud Partners" on the web site who also contribute.  That's why you always see Charles Schwab playing, Herb Kohler and Charles Johnson from Franklin funds. 


The PGA tour gets 10 or so spots for other sponsors.


Certain PGA players are allowed to bring the guest of their choosing.


The Monterey Peninsula foundation get a few spots for big donors.


They've eliminated the California amateur champion a number of years ago and many of the Northern California people who gave it it's homey feeling.


CBS receives a number of spots. These are used for big advertisers and a few television stars.


All in all, it could be saved but nobody wants to give up there spaces and miss the parties and business connections.

[V. Kmetz]

It is what it is...as is all, now. I think most are speaking with the perspective of having experienced the "Crosby" and all such, 35-50 years ago, when there wasn't wall to wall coverage of the Tour, and courses, and 4 day coverage and all...


I've made other contributions to other threads already proclaiming I long-loved the cognizance "West Coast" swing when the Sony was a one-off and the ToC was at La Costa; the Hope was of greater importance, and the sun, sand, greenery and coast of California was like that pre-spring beacon



Just for one small instance, I didn't know or have any concern who and not who was playing (pros, celebs, top ams) unti li turned it on Saturday at 4 pm in 1981.  I didn't know players didn't like poa or were starting to "time" their season with the circadian Tour rhythms...


Another, though its a reflection on me - most of the stars that used to pop up on the weekend were A list actors, musicians, entertainers... I may be out of step with who that it is now for big America world, but I haven't recognized much in the last 5-20 years, and Bill Murray had just about "run" that entire show between 2000 -2010, and that had gotten old too.



I've always wondered why more Brits and Euro players and, perhaps as importantly, Brit/Euro celebs haven't made as many inroads... it's past time now with Middle East events competing for the Tour stars, but I still ponder why the many UK actors aren't invited/included/thought of.


I confess, I like the coverage much better when it's just the players, like this week. I'm not that interested in the golf games of 9 hcps, unless its against another 9 hcp....


But honestly, when where there last an actual 100 person A-list Clambake, where media and stars and players were shucking by beach fires, under blankets and with styro cups of weird courage in their hands?


That probably was gone by the early 80s, latest... 40 years ago.

[Peter Pallotta]

VK -
I'd go further and say there were *never* the Clambakes of my dreams, or even ones that were really all that much like those from the 40s and 50s that I've read about in books:

Jimmy Demaret's singing voice probably wasn't as good as Bing's, and there were likely as few 'true stars' back then as there are now, and those great old pros weren't *all* stand-up, salt-of-the-earth guys in grey wool slacks who palled around together and watched each-other's backs.

No, it probably wasn't *actually* like that back in the 40s and 50s and 60s -- but it *wanted* to be, and it wanted to be *seen* like that, which in itself is very telling.

Because if you read about today's version of the tournament, the 'story' is all about what a great place it is for pros to 'build important business relationships with titans from the finance and investment worlds, and to nurture future sponsorships with key corporate partners'.

(Indeed, the reason given for so few top players at this year's tournament was the absence of those pro-am titans.)

Ugh. Once we were asked to celebrate fun and friendship and celebrity golf; today we're asked to revel in the diverse business opportunities that may turn many a mere millionaire into multi-millionaires!

And that's the real difference, it seems to me. A profound shift in values, and the ever increasing corporatization of our culture.

[Michael Wolf]

For the players I represent, it's much less about Pebble Beach and more to do with (a) the wraparound schedule has created a situation where Pebble is now almost at the midpoint of the season, but before any of the 8 or 9 biggest events on the calendar. Something has to give if a player needs an off week, or wants a big overseas payday, and (b) Florida is now 4 straight weeks of pretty attractive events for the huge number of players clustered in the Jupiter and Sea Island areas.


Directly and indirectly, the pro-am format of Pebble week raises massive sums of money for the Tour and Monterey charities. But in some ways that also works against the field strength, because it's one of the weeks on Tour where the location and historical momentum are the focus, rather than on specific star players. And therefore there's not as much arm twisting to get the top players to show up.


Re Fedex events - all full field events give the same amount of points, with very minor increases for majors and WGC's. OWGR points are what's variable depending on field strength, and very, very few players plan their advance schedules around OWGR points.


Michael

[Mike_Clayton]

Maybe incorporate the LPGA - every one of their top 70 players would turn up.

[Sean_A]

I hold out little hope that the event can be revived. Pietro is right, the Tour is a very different animal from the 70s and 80s when I followed it. Hell, I don't even understand the jargon or properly know the difference between FedEx and World events etc. Even worse, I have no desire to invest time in seeking the answers. It's a very confusing and complicated system for the fan coming from just about any other sport and this is coming from a guy who followed the Tour very closely for many years!

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

I hold out little hope that the event can be revived. Pietro is right, the Tour is a very different animal from the 70s and 80s when I followed it. Hell, I don't even understand the jargon or properly know the difference between FedEx and World events etc. Even worse, I have no desire to invest time in seeking the answers. It's a very confusing and complicated system for the fan coming from just about any other sport and this is coming from a guy who followed the Tour very closely for many years!

Ciao

Sean agree that the "PGA Tour" has morphed into something else from 20-30 years ago.  We have the cannibalization of great events the 4th of July Western Open every year was basically dissolved to be part of a very poorly replacement of events called the FedEx Cup, which was a disaster for Chicago golf. We also have WGC events which actually are almost all in the USA or Mexico with rare exceptions outside of the Shanghai event. Before 1999 the WGC / FedEx cup and this crazy wrap around (or fall series) season lent itself to a predictable normal predictable schedule year to year. The last 20 years has been a race to increase profits by leveraging the increased corporate interest due to Tiger Woods and appealing to more eyeballs.


The PGA Tour now resembles the college football bowl games schedule.  The names are all different, the locations have changed and sponsors constantly change. So what tradition is there year to year?  There is none, all replaced by the BCS and then the playoff, while trying to hang onto sponsorships for some other bowl games. PGA Tour I think is similar in that the tour stops names, venues, format etc. have all changed and leaving the fan from the 90's or before clueless as to the traditional PGA schedule and even the way the best players win. At least the majors are the same, which is the only thing left to hang onto for tradition.


The AT&T pro am suffers as a result of all the above, as does the old Bob Hope pro am in Palm Springs.

[Rob Marshall]

The problem is money. They have too much. They don't need to play 5 hour rounds in cold damp weather. The Crosby was always a winter tournament and never had a problem in the old days. It was my favorite tournament to watch as a kid.

[Mike_Trenham]

The loss of Cypress Point Club from the rota probably was the second biggest hit after the passing of Bing.


Also don’t forget that back in the 1960s and especially the 1950s and earlier many of the best players also had jobs as golf professionals at clubs in the Northeast and Midwest.  Thus the Westcoast Swing and Florida events were some of the most highly contested tournaments each year.

[Tom_Doak]

I've always wondered why more Brits and Euro players and, perhaps as importantly, Brit/Euro celebs haven't made as many inroads... it's past time now with Middle East events competing for the Tour stars, but I still ponder why the many UK actors aren't invited/included/thought of.

It's a pretty long flight from Europe to California.  Celebrities get jet lag, too.


More importantly, the Dunhill Links at St. Andrews is Europe's answer to the Crosby . . . and honestly, more like the Crosby used to be.  I met as many celebrities there in my one week visit as I have met in the rest of my life, combined.

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