Pebble Beach ocean retaining walls

[Carl Rogers]

Are these concrete with formwork to make it look like rocks?

[David_Tepper]

Yes.

[Terry Lavin]

It’s disfigurement at a base level but, then again, the resort makes so much money and the talking heads don’t address the shoreline disgrace so why should we?


Because it’s a pathetic, artificial desecration of the final hole of one of the most iconic golf courses in the USA.

[Marty Bonnar]

I’m not sure I get what you actually mean. The obvious straight line ‘coastal defence’ walls on 18 are clearly concrete perhaps with a stone facing, but they are built on what looks like the actual real rockhead. As a landscape design guy, I’ve moaned about them here often!
Is that what you’re talking about?
F.

[Terry Lavin]

I’m not sure I get what you actually mean. The obvious straight line ‘coastal defence’ walls on 18 are clearly concrete perhaps with a stone facing, but they are built on what looks like the actual real rockhead. As a landscape design guy, I’ve moaned about them here often!
Is that what you’re talking about?
F.

F:


Yep!

[Marty Bonnar]

Terry,
I wasn’t actually asking the question of you, but thanks for the reply anyway!
 
F.

[SL_Solow]

I agree that they are not artfully done but my understanding is that there was danger that erosion would destroy the 18th fairway.  If that is true, what were the other options to preserve the hole?  Haul in boulders?  This is not a rhetorical question.

[Mark_Fine]

I have been going out to Pebble Beach for over 30 years.  There would be no 18th hole without that sea wall.  It is actually pretty well done.  You hardly notice it unless you hit it down on the rocks.  The sand bunker is there to allow grass to be grown.  There is a tremendous amount of salt spray.  It is quite a feat to have kept that hole playable.  The wall takes nothing away from the golf hole. All it does is save it.

[Marty Bonnar]

Shel,
We’re much more often using more organic methods for erosion control in waterside environments these days. Rip-rap (basically loose rocks placed together) works really well to attenuate wave energy. The voids and hollows in it act like mini-dampers and create little ‘reservoirs’ where water will sit and absorb incoming waves. Solid walls like the one at PB 18 usually fail because they try to stop the wave energy dead rather than to soften and disperse it.
It’s a whole science in itself! Bit of a black art, in fact!
F.

[Pete_Pittock]

Noticed that the top of the wall is angled seaward to baffle waves and spray-over.  Maybe Kalen can create a before/after.

[SL_Solow]

Marty, very informative.  For those who care, how is the eye appeal?

[Mark_Fine]

I don’t know how much maintenance those walls require (they protect other holes on the course as well) but they have been there for many many years now.  When I first saw them I was not too happy but once I learned what was happening/why it had to be done (and as they aged) they no longer bother me.  I really hardly notice them.  If you have ever been there when there is a storm and the waves are fierce, you shake your head and say that hole might not be there for long.  Like them or not they really have worked well and done their job.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

I'm not sure what an alternative solution would be. Let the fairway crumble into the ocean? Have some kind of buffering vegetation and move the fairway to the right? There are plenty of clearly manmade bulkhead solutions even on the oldest of links in the UK, I'm not sure why Pebble's solution on the 18th is unacceptable.


Cypress also has a bunch of this type of stuff too.

[Marty Bonnar]

Marty, very informative.  For those who care, how is the eye appeal?

Certainly much prettier and more ‘natural’ looking than horrible straight artless concrete walls! You can use local stone in a huge variety of sizes to create very organic shapes.

[David_Tepper]

The reality is, if you are on the course and walking up the 18th fairway, you barely see or notice the seawall unless you are very close to the edge of the left side of the fairway. The seawall that surrounds and supports the 18h tee box for the most part cannot be seen when standing on the tee. 


If it wasn't for the aerial TV shots, we might not even be having this discussion.

[SL_Solow]

I agree that the seawall is essentially invisible from the course.  I honeymooned there years before they built the wall and our room was at the end of the building behind the green on the top floor.  I am sure that view remains magnificent although it has changed.  No surprise but the rates were much different then.  A young lawyer could stretch and afford it.

[John Emerson]

It’s disfigurement at a base level but, then again, the resort makes so much money and the talking heads don’t address the shoreline disgrace so why should we?


Because it’s a pathetic, artificial desecration of the final hole of one of the most iconic golf courses in the USA.

The only solution is no 18th hole.  No sea wall = 18fwy into the pacific.  I’m pretty sure skipping the 18th is far more pathetic.

[Steve Lang]

   Come on FBD, bit of a black art???  Not for Civil/Structural/Ocean Engineers!


See California Coastal Commission staff report details for 18th hole at https://documents.coastal.ca.gov/reports/2013/6/F12b-6-2013.pdf and also doc for the 5th hole at https://documents.coastal.ca.gov/reports/2006/12/W9c-12-2006.pdf

[Kalen Braley]

I understand the criticism of the concrete walls, but what is the alternative, losing 18 to the Ocean and then what?  All those homes to the right of the cart path are private property, seems like there is nowhere to shift the hole further inland...

P.S. On a related topic, was that a helicopter hovering off 17 & 18 at the end of todays coverage providing all those shots.

The audio feed sure sounds like it was pretty loud at ground level, and it was very distracting as the last few groups came up 18.

[Kalen Braley]

A quick search on Google Earth shows its not limited to just 18.

There are also sea walls on parts of 17, 4, 5, 9, and 10....and I'm guessing in the not too distant future the 6th hole based on some of the erosion that's showing.

[Carl Rogers]

FL Wright's Taliesen West is the best example I know of rock embedded in concrete


I thought that there were so many  restrictions along the CA coast that such construction was about impossible.  I wonder what the regulatory hurdles were?


Age and patina will soften it's appearance.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious, do the purists hold the same contempt for the fugly retaining walls they've built at venues like The Old Course and Carnoustie to keep the burns from eroding away the holes?

They sure as hell aren't natural in appearance, even if they seem to be cost effective and serve thier function well.

[Marty Bonnar]

I'm curious, do the purists hold the same contempt for the fugly retaining walls they've built at venues like The Old Course and Carnoustie to keep the burns from eroding away the holes?

They sure as hell aren't natural in appearance, even if they seem to be cost effective and serve thier function well.

Absolutely.
The walls at Carnoustie remind me of a municipal sewage works.
F.

[Jeff Schley]

I'm curious, do the purists hold the same contempt for the fugly retaining walls they've built at venues like The Old Course and Carnoustie to keep the burns from eroding away the holes?

They sure as hell aren't natural in appearance, even if they seem to be cost effective and serve thier function well.

Absolutely.
The walls at Carnoustie remind me of a municipal sewage works.
F.

Indeed when they were at their most famous.

[Jeff Schley]

So what would be the over/under on years the 18th would be there without the seawall?