[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/scotland-top-100-golf-courses

[Thomas Dai]

11 categorised as a 'New' entry.
Wonder which 11 have dropped-out from the previous version?
atb

[Brian_Ewen]

Never seen my home club (Stonehaven) on any of these list before, came as a bit of a shock actually.

One glaring omission is Forfar, so I guess that is one of the 11 that has dropped out.

Camperdown GC that has closed is possibly another one.

[Paul Rudovsky]

Additional ratings evidence that FUN is on the ascent!!!  YEA!!!!


N Berwick 8-->5
Crude Bay  10-->8
Brora  31-->26
Kilspindie  59-->43
Askernish  68-->49

[Sean_A]

Anybody think Shiskine stands out as ranked miles above its quality?

Ciao

[David Jones]

11 categorised as a 'New' entry.
Wonder which 11 have dropped-out from the previous version?
atb

I was but one very small voice on a panel so won't try to speak for all of the ups and downs but the ones that dropped out from 2019 are Carnoustie Burnside, Cawder, Forfar, Letham Grange, Newburgh, East Ren, Elgin, Rowallan Castle, Monktonhall, Kilmacolm and Dalmahoy.


As for the Shiskine move, it's one I wasn't able to comment on as I haven't played there but if they let us travel from East Lothian to Arran in the summer I have a week booked with the family so will give my opinion then!

[Brian_Ewen]

Elgin dropped out? ..... WOW 

[David_Tepper]

Having played all three, I  can't see Skibo above both Castle Stuart and Royal Aberdeen.

[Tom_Doak]

When you look at a list like this, where a lot of the courses are moving up or down 10-15 spots from one year to the next, it's pretty clear that either the panel has had a lot of turnover, or that they don't really know what they are supposed to be doing.

[John_Cullum]

Anybody think Shiskine stands out as ranked miles above its quality?

Ciao

Up 20 spots. Doesn't that usually signal panel pandering?

[Sean_A]

Anybody think Shiskine stands out as ranked miles above its quality?

Ciao

Up 20 spots. Doesn't that usually signal panel pandering?

Knowing that Burnside is out and Shiskine is top 50 makes me scratch my head twice. It doesn't make any sense to me unless views are more than half the criteria. The two are miles apart in terms of quality.

Ciao

[Brad Tufts]

When you look at a list like this, where a lot of the courses are moving up or down 10-15 spots from one year to the next, it's pretty clear that either the panel has had a lot of turnover, or that they don't really know what they are supposed to be doing.

Or a big change in criteria from 2019 to now!


The first column seems to make relative sense, and the two new courses have gotten lots of early praise so that seems to fit (though I personally have played neither).  Makes me wonder when a course flies into the middle of the ranking after being around for 100+ years, with no wholesale changes to change the quality of course.

[jeffwarne]

I always enjoy different lists.
I don't put a whole lot of stock in the numbers themselves.
Out of the top 16, I see only 3-4 that I'd like to return to( a few of the Top 16 I haven't played, nor desire to for various reasons), and see many that I'd like to do a repeat or first time visit well below that.



Seeing one I never heard of at 50 excites me-Lanark.
Any thoughts?
 
Omissions in a list of 100 would include Buckie Strathlene and Spey Bay

[David Jones]

When you look at a list like this, where a lot of the courses are moving up or down 10-15 spots from one year to the next, it's pretty clear that either the panel has had a lot of turnover, or that they don't really know what they are supposed to be doing.

Hi Tom


It is a new panel and editor as well as criteria. Maybe as a result I shouldn't have posted the changes from the last time (2 years) as that is getting more attention than the positions. I'll edit the piece later to put in the criteria used.

[jeffwarne]

Anybody think Shiskine stands out as ranked miles above its quality?

Ciao

Shiskine is the perfect course for the ferry ride over to the Kintyre Peninsula, either combined with another 9 holer on Arran or with 9 hole Carradale on the other side-an excellent day and perhaps a Top 10 "travel" day-maybe even a Top 10 "views" day-...but it gets a lot of mileage out of the 12 hole designation.


There are plenty of courses that are down the list that are superior.
Look no further than the 11 after it(34-44), all of which I've played and would rate above Shiskine.
But it a great day and a course worth visiting for sure nonetheless.


It probably deserves a spot on the list, and I would most definitely go play it again over many in the Top 1-16, but it probably belongs somewhere in the 51-100 area on the list.

[Brian_Ewen]

Maybe as a result I shouldn't have posted the changes from the last time (2 years) as that is getting more attention than the positions. I'll edit the piece later to put in the criteria used.

Please don't.

[Simon Holt]

It's always fun to see the reactions to any new lists. 


Bruntsfield members might not be too happy after considerable changes to the course. Yikes.


Dumbarnie is about the right number in terms of where I would have it in a Scottish ranking, but not necessarily relative to the courses around it on this list.


I feel Renaissance should be 10 spots higher; Prestwick undervalued; Brora, Elie, Kilspindie and Dunaverty all spots I love but are perhaps benefitting from being a la mode.  If it gets people excited to go and see them, I'm all for that! 


Fair play to whoever pulled the list together.  It gives exposure to courses that many outside some villages, let alone Scotland, would have heard of.


Given many UK golfers won't be heading to Spain and Portugal this year, hopefully the timing of this list gets them planning a Scotland based trip to some of the unknowns.

[Marty Bonnar]

Getting ripped to bits by Scottish golfers over on the facebook.
F.

[Tom_Doak]

Getting ripped to bits by Scottish golfers over on the facebook.
F.

Any more than usual, though?


I guess members of all the courses that suffered big drops would be up in arms.

[Tom_Doak]

Hi Tom


It is a new panel and editor as well as criteria. Maybe as a result I shouldn't have posted the changes from the last time (2 years) as that is getting more attention than the positions. I'll edit the piece later to put in the criteria used.

Thanks David - that explains a lot.


I don't know what to make of the fact that all of these rankings seem to be in upheaval, after 20-30 years of cruising along with some tinkering at the margins.  It's kind of a changing of the guard, but it's weird that it's all happening in a short window, with no real driving force I can think of.

[Adam Lawrence]

Hi Tom


It is a new panel and editor as well as criteria. Maybe as a result I shouldn't have posted the changes from the last time (2 years) as that is getting more attention than the positions. I'll edit the piece later to put in the criteria used.

Thanks David - that explains a lot.

I don't know what to make of the fact that all of these rankings seem to be in upheaval, after 20-30 years of cruising along with some tinkering at the margins.  It's kind of a changing of the guard, but it's weird that it's all happening in a short window, with no real driving force I can think of.

To be fair, I don't know how true that is of the UK-based rankings. The American magazines have, whether you like their methodologies or not, taken rankings seriously for quite a long time. In the UK they have been much more fly-by-night. If they are a bit more serious now, that has to be a good thing.

[Thomas Dai]

I don't know what to make of the fact that all of these rankings seem to be in upheaval, after 20-30 years of cruising along with some tinkering at the margins.  It's kind of a changing of the guard, but it's weird that it's all happening in a short window, with no real driving force I can think of.

+1 Tom.
I reckon social media has a lot to do with it. Places folks didn’t know much if anything about are having photos and drone videos and blogs and amateur reviews and podcasts raised about them all the time.
A classic example would be Durness, a new entry at #65 in the listing.
Hardly known or mentioned even by die-hards and those herein until a photo tour was posted herein about it maybe 3-4 yrs ago and yet now, not necessarily due to same photo tour, but it’s all over social media with photos and drone videos galore. Evan chat about a famous US developer looking at the sandy site on the other side of the bay! Publicity seems to be king and if the course has got a photogenic site, well yippee!
Atb

[David Jones]

Hi Tom


It is a new panel and editor as well as criteria. Maybe as a result I shouldn't have posted the changes from the last time (2 years) as that is getting more attention than the positions. I'll edit the piece later to put in the criteria used.

Thanks David - that explains a lot.

I don't know what to make of the fact that all of these rankings seem to be in upheaval, after 20-30 years of cruising along with some tinkering at the margins.  It's kind of a changing of the guard, but it's weird that it's all happening in a short window, with no real driving force I can think of.

To be fair, I don't know how true that is of the UK-based rankings. The American magazines have, whether you like their methodologies or not, taken rankings seriously for quite a long time. In the UK they have been much more fly-by-night. If they are a bit more serious now, that has to be a good thing.

I think that Chris Bertram who is doing these Golf World/Today's Golfer ranking is doing a really great job, he has huge integrity which goes a long way. I also like the top100golfcourses list so I think between the two the UK and country lists are in pretty good hands.


Re the US magazines, the Golf Digest world rankings desperately need an overhaul as they have are in a terrible state at the moment. Hopefully Derek Duncan will help make them a proper world ranking..


Golf magazine for the World lists leads the way. I think the only credible other list is the top100. However, I thought the 2013 Golf Course Architecture list was fantastic. Have you thought about doing a new version Adam?

[Mike Hendren]

You won't find a bigger fan of Durness than yours truly.   But in all honesty to be in that neighborhood makes everything in life sweeter and renders one vulnerable to falling in love with any place to stick a tee in the ground.  Knowing a hot chocolate awaits at Cocoa Mountain renders objectivity impossible!   As for the golf course proper, the 4th is a tremendous 2-shotter that could hold its own anywhere.  The tumbling 8th and scenic 9th do not disappoint either.  The balance of the course is plenty good enough.  I've only played one course ranked below it on the list and The Eden is far superior to Durness, pond and all. 


Just my $0.02 late on a Friday.


Mike

[jeffwarne]

You won't find a bigger fan of Durness than yours truly.   But in all honesty to be in that neighborhood makes everything in life sweeter and renders one vulnerable to falling in love with any place to stick a tee in the ground.  Knowing a hot chocolate awaits at Cocoa Mountain renders objectivity impossible!   As for the golf course proper, the 4th is a tremendous 2-shotter that could hold its own anywhere.  The tumbling 8th and scenic 9th do not disappoint either.  The balance of the course is plenty good enough.  I've only played one course ranked below it on the list and The Eden is far superior to Durness, pond and all. 


Just my $0.02 late on a Friday.


Mike

Hmmm..
I've never been much good at "ranking" based on some of what is in the top of this list,
but I do know after playing an 18 hole round in Fife, I drove 6 hours (at great risk to my mental and physical health) with two non golfers in the car, leaving behind for a night a house that was paid for for the week...to play Durness-then we returned the next day(via gairoch )to that same house in St. Andrews,....and it was well worth it.


Pretty sure I wouldn't do the same for the Eden course from a similar distance.
I thought the closest thing at Durness to a mundane hole was the first(but even that overlooked the spectacular bay and property Thomas mentioned.)


Some courses, especially 9 and 12 holers, probably belong in their own category, such as Tom's 31 Flavors, which contains some of my favorite courses in the world(and i would rank most of the 31 far higher than they are

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