[Drew Maliniak]

Fun article on Lying Four. Beware some graphic words.


Favorite paragraph:

“Too severe? What about the 17th hole at the Old Course? You hit over a f*** hotel, and the green’s about three feet wide, and there’s a road behind it. It’s the best par-4 in the world,” Collins said. “Some of the best golf courses in the world ask engaging, difficult, unique questions. Purely as an art form, wouldn’t golf get rather boring if every single person was just trying to do the same thing over and over? Golf needs to have its boundaries pushed a little.”



https://www.lyingfour.com/conversations-blog/2020/11/24/landmand-story

[Forrest Richardson]

That was an interesting article, and I applaud the boys for standing up to "doing what's right" depending on the site.

At the Links at Las Palomas (Sonora, MX) we have 7 holes that are "found" and minimalist — we have 11 holes are are pure manufactured. Why? Because the site "told us" this without having to pry or ponder it too long. The 11 "maximist" holes are on dead flat land that needed to be lifted to get the turf above the saturated tidal (salt) water. We also had an old landfill to deal with. Add to that the need for a system of lakes to store fresh water. The "found" holes are pure links sand, dunes and native shrub "gorse".

One of the common mistakes is when a "minimalist" designer or site is treated as such on ALL HOLES...A golf course is made up of individual holes. While it is "one thing" in the end, it is the sum of its parts.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jay Morrish called himself a "neccessisist" which might be an apt definition.  Sometimes, yes, you need to move earth to create a golf hole, but IMHO, if you have to move earth on all of them, maybe you didn't route it well enough, LOL>

[Mark_Fine]

Didn't Tillinghast once state that, "Often it is necessary to get from one section to another over ground which is not suited to easy construction, but that troublesome hole/s must be made to stand right up with the others. If it has nothing about it that might make it respectable, it has to have quality knocked into it until it can hold its head up in polite society."

[Tom_Doak]

Wow to that whole article.  Let's set up some straw men and knock them down.


Of course they couldn't have built a minimalist course on that site, it's pretty severe and hilly.  And they chose the site specifically because it was severe and hilly, and they wanted to build something radical.


I'm excited to see how that works out for them.

[Thomas Dai]

Sounds an exciting development and good luck to them.
A couple of questions for those in the business if I may .....
If I understand it correctly a loess landscape isn’t just sand, there’s a significant element of clay in the mix too, so I imagine this course will be somewhat different to other Nebraska sand hills courses?
Be interesting to hear some thoughts too as to how a golf course on such loess terrain and in a location with considerable temperature variation is likely to perform from aspects like drainage, erosion etc?
Atb

[Terry Lavin]

Very intriguing project. The article articulately laid out the challenges and the rather bold vision of the talented architects.

[Niall C]

"Sweetens Cove, a rollicking nine-hole course in South Pittsburg, Tennessee, with wide fairways, surreal green contours, and breathtaking bunkering, all jam-packed into a miniscule 72 acres"

Sorry to go off at a tangent but 72 acres is miniscule for nine-holes !!! Never mind reining in the ball, let's rein in the architects

Niall

[Ronald Montesano]

Didn't Tillinghast once state that, "Often it is necessary to get from one section to another over ground which is not suited to easy construction, but that troublesome hole/s must be made to stand right up with the others. If it has nothing about it that might make it respectable, it has to have quality knocked into it until it can hold its head up in polite society."

I believe that was Churchill. He loved golf.

[Ronald Montesano]

That's not a golf article; it's a prelude to a doctoral thesis. The language is brilliant; the references soar from one pallet of human knowledge to the next, or to a distant one.

[Carl Rogers]

I did not see any reference to the business model.  My assumption is that it will be ultra private?? and thus the privileged few will inform the rest of us how wonderful it is!

[Tom_Doak]

I did not see any reference to the business model.  My assumption is that it will be ultra private?? and thus the privileged few will inform the rest of us how wonderful it is!

I think it's intended to be a public course?

[Drew Maliniak]

The article hints to public. Another article by the Sioux City journal says public. Snippets below the line.

I would be curious if they will start a second course under Mr. Keiser's theory that two is a destination.

https://siouxcityjournal.com/sports/pro/landmand-golf-club-near-homer-will-be-marquee-course/article_fa4f42b0-1106-5c50-ac13-d876d0983ed1.html

______


Landmand will be a strictly public play course, with no corporate outings.

“I want people to be able to call up, get a tee time and not have to worry about leagues or a scramble being out there,” Andersen said.
Fees will indeed be reasonable. Anyone living within a 50-mile radius can play for $75, which includes a cart. Outside of the 50-mile radius, the fee will be $100.

Collins and King have enlisted an impressive crew to build Landmand. That includes Jeff Bradley, the main bunker designer for Ben Crenshaw’s courses, along with Mark Berger, who shaped Bluejack National Course with Tiger Woods.

[jeffwarne]

"Sweetens Cove, a rollicking nine-hole course in South Pittsburg, Tennessee, with wide fairways, surreal green contours, and breathtaking bunkering, all jam-packed into a miniscule 72 acres"

Sorry to go off at a tangent but 72 acres is miniscule for nine-holes !!! Never mind reining in the ball, let's rein in the architects

Niall

That did catch my eye.
Wannamoisett is on 89...
I was thinking maybe just rein in the authors.
The use of the word "miniscule" is the author's, not KC's.

[Drew Maliniak]

When I was a law clerk in Chattanooga in 2015, I would play Sweetens almost every weekend.


Sweetens never felt small at all. Merion feels "tight." (I always wanted to aim way left on the second hole.)


Sweetens never felt like I wanted to aim outside the fairway. It's probably because the first three holes (5-4-5) skirt the edges and then you move into the middle of the property. 

[Ben Hollerbach]

Will Andersen's vision is Landmand will be a world class golf course for the farmers in the area. So it will be very public and locally focused, but of course will not shun those who want to travel to see it. They do actually have another course already in the area, Old Dane.


As for Sweetens, I believe it is actually on less than 60 acres of land with maybe an additional 5 acres of water.

[Blake Conant]

Wow to that whole article.  Let's set up some straw men and knock them down.

This is where I keep scratching my head.  Before they broke ground Rob said the land reminded him of Sand Hills and Shinnecock. Anyone who knows the Loess Hills knows that was marketing BS, but for the 98% of the country that doesn't have a clue about the Loess Hills, they believed the comparison.  Now he's upset at those same people for asking why a D8 has been pushing earth for a year if the land was as good as he said it was?

[Ben Hollerbach]

This is where I keep scratching my head.  Before they broke ground Rob said the land reminded him of Sand Hills and Shinnecock. Anyone who knows the Loess Hills knows that was marketing BS, but for the 98% of the country that doesn't have a clue about the Loess Hills, they believed the comparison.  Now he's upset at those same people for asking why a D8 has been pushing earth for a year if the land was as good as he said it was?

"It’s like Sand Hills and Shinnecock Hills had a baby, and they put a little LSD in its milk."
~Rob Collins


I'd say that LSD part is pretty important for context.

[Thomas Dai]

This is where I keep scratching my head.  Before they broke ground Rob said the land reminded him of Sand Hills and Shinnecock. Anyone who knows the Loess Hills knows that was marketing BS, but for the 98% of the country that doesn't have a clue about the Loess Hills, they believed the comparison.  Now he's upset at those same people for asking why a D8 has been pushing earth for a year if the land was as good as he said it was?

Exactly the point I was querying in my reply #5 above.
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

Its tough to get scale for this site from the small pics.

For those who know, are we talking Sanctuary level extreme?  That may be the most severe site I've seen a golf course built on.  Couldn't imagine walking that.

Additional links with photos would be appreciated!

[Tom_Doak]

Its tough to get scale for this site from the small pics.

For those who know, are we talking Sanctuary level extreme?  That may be the most severe site I've seen a golf course built on.  Couldn't imagine walking that.

I've never been to Sanctuary, but this is built on the bluffs going down to the Missouri River, not the foothills of the Rockies!


I'd guesstimate that the more severe elevation changes are 50-60 feet . . . I believe they said the fill at the start of the fairway after the Redan was 35 feet.  It will be a big walk, especially in the wind, but certainly not impossible.

[V_Halyard]

I did not see any reference to the business model.  My assumption is that it will be ultra private?? and thus the privileged few will inform the rest of us how wonderful it is!

Landmand will be public.

Some other quick fact based updates:
It will be a big piece of public golf. It will be walkable.
The owner Will Andersen is a great guy and proponent of architecture focused public golf.
It sits on a fascinating and massive piece of hilly land. The wind blows like a Wizard of Oz amusement ride.
In the coming months, we'll share some more of the story via Adam Lawrence GolfCourseArchitecture and with Andy on The Fried Egg.
It is unlikely that "minimalism" will creep into any conversations once you're on the property.

[Ben Hollerbach]

[Kalen Braley]

Good pic Ben, thanks for sharing.

Given that it certainly won't be considered "minimalism", can it still score a win in the "naturalism" category?  Specifically will it/can it appear as if they moved little dirt?

[Rob Collins]

What Ben said...

"It’s like Sand Hills and Shinnecock Hills had a baby, and they put a little LSD in its milk."
~Rob Collins


I'd say that LSD part is pretty important for context.

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