[Jason Thurman]

Ok, I know the old Cave Valley Golf Course is getting an overhaul, and I know our own Brian Ross has a hand in things. And the pics I've seen look pretty damn cool.


I never played the old Cave Valley, and don't know much about the work underway. But it looks like the most noteworthy development in Kentucky golf in quite a long time, and I'd love to know more about the project.


Discuss.

[Brian Ross]

Thanks, Jason!

I am indeed involved with this project and would be happy to answer any questions that anyone might have.

The official name of the course will be Park Mammoth Golf Club and it is a collaboration between Colton Craig and I on the site of the former Cave Valley Golf Club in Park City, Kentucky. As of this moment we are shooting for a Labor Day 2021 opening and are very excited to show the course off to the world. Park Mammoth is located 30 minutes from Bowling Green, 90 minutes from both Louisville and Nashville, and is just two miles off I-65, so despite its rural location it is quite accessible to a large population of golfers.

A bit of backstory:

The original course on the property dates back to 1964 and was once part of the 36-hole Park Mammoth Resort complete with a 200-room lodge located just a couple miles from the entrance to Mammoth Cave National Park (hence the name). The resort has been through a few ownership changes over the past two decades and ultimately ended up in a bankruptcy auction last November. Our client purchased the golf course portion of the property (and several hundred additional acres) and hired us to reimagine the place in January. We moved quickly through the design phase and started construction on March 15.

The existing course was fairly well-routed for the most part but did have a couple of head-scratching moments, including the old first hole which is one of the ten worst golf holes I've ever seen. We made a significant routing change here that makes things flow much better and made some smaller adjustments in other areas, too. I go back and forth on whether this is a "new course" or just a major renovation, but I tend to lean in the direction of "new" most of the time. While anyone that has played here before will generally recognize the routing, there isn't a single hole that has the exact same location for the tees, centerline, and green as the previous version.

The course is going to be sporty with a good bit of quirk, too. It's 6,300 yards/Par 70 and we only built 25 bunkers as the land speaks for itself for the most part. It has about 160 feet of elevation change from high point (16 tee) to low point (7 green) but is still very walkable and will have cart paths only at tees and greens (entire hole on par 3's). Besides the insane amount of rock we moved off-site from the irrigation system installation and from a few greens/bunkers, we moved zero cubic yards of material via trailer (all features were shaped with a dozer using local material). We built the irrigation pond off-site so only one hole will have water in play (the par-3 7th plays over an existing pond). The greens range in size from 4,100 to 9,500 square feet (with one 14,200 SF double green thrown in for good measure) and the bunkers range in size from the 215 SF pot bunker on the short par-3 11th to the 5,500 SF monster that separates the 2nd and 4th greens. We removed well over 1,000 trees including most of the internal trees that you would see on the existing Google Earth aerial.

I'm not going to do a hole-by-hole walk-through because I think the course shows 100x better in person and I want to leave a bit to the imagination, too. The scale of the valley is really hard to capture in photos so the ones I have don't do the place much justice. I will post a few photos either this afternoon or tomorrow morning, though. I am happy to show it off in person so please let me know if you happen to be in the area and want to drop by. I won't be out there very often this winter but will be back frequently in the spring and early summer to help wrap things up.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Jason,


If you check out the TalkinGolf History podcast there's an episode about Perry Maxwell with Colton Craig. He talks a little bit about the Park Mammoth project. And if you're into Perry Maxwell you'll love the whole episode

[John Emerson]

I want to be excited again about a golf course in KY, but it has been the same cookie cutter crap for decades.  I cannot remember the last time anything has been built that I thought was any good...maybe 2006 with Heritage Hills is the last one?  There is spectacular land in Ky...problem is getting people to come.

[Scott Sander]

At the risk of being escorted out of the bar:


IF you are already down there to see Park Mammoth, and you have a spare couple of hours and somewhere between $10-$20 in your pocket, head 3 miles down a twisty road to the delightfully thrifty Diamond Caverns Golf (& RV Resort!) 
Carnival funhouse rolls, absurd twists, driveable doglegs, bathroom rug fairways, indefensible tree placement. 


The land is really cool. 
Had a hoot of an afternoon imagining what could be.


(I'll see myself out.)

[John Mayhugh]

Brian briefly mentioned this project on another GCA post, and I had a short discussion about it with Colton Craig. I live in Louisville and stopped by for a look on a trip down to Bowling Green in August.

I had played the original course many years ago, and although the routing is similar to the original, Brian & Colton's work won't remind anyone of that course. The property is in sort of a bowl, with high shoulders surrounding this valley. Their routing does a nice job of using the side slopes for interest without a lot of big uphill walks. The 6,300 yard par 70 might raise eyebrows for those looking for a "championship course," but I suspect most that play the course will enjoy it. It won't be a pushover thanks to an economical use of severe bunkers & what promises to be a really good set of greens.

There is a nice variety of green sizes and shapes. While too early to know much about interior contours, there seemed to be several greens that utilize significant tilt (something that is missing in many modern designs), including greens that run away from the line of play. There's a tiny green on a par 5 and a huge green on a shortish par 3. Also a boomerang green and, as Brian mentioned, a double green (approached from opposite directions). The course has the potential to offer one of the best sets of greens in the state.

A few photos.

The view across the property from behind the 18th green. The 17th green is between the piles of sand. 18 tee is to the right of that green, and 1 green is seen to the right of the parked equipment. There is a resort road that mostly bisects the course along with some power lines running along that road. The first hole gets that view over with.

IMG_8998 by john mayhugh, on Flickr


Things get interesting fast. The second hole is a short downhill par 4 of what seemed around 300 yards. It's the green on the right. The 4th green is to the left, and the two are separated by a massive bunker. Play to the 4th will be from the left.

IMG_8966 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

The par 3 7th plays across the small pond that Brian mentioned. The 3rd green is visible behind the 7th, and the 8th tee is just beyond.

IMG_8963 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

The 8th fairway was one of the few with grass when I visited. You can see that there is some interest in the fairway contours.
IMG_8960 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

The boomerang 8th green.
IMG_8959 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

The large greensite for short par 3 11th. Line of play is from about 10 o'clock.

IMG_8995 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

Huge bunker front and left of the 15th green.
IMG_8983 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

A bit of humor.
IMG_8954 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

While I was walking around, a guy in a pickup truck drove down the resort road and stopped to talk to me. He said that his home is nearby, and he drives through pretty much every day to watch progress. He didn't strike me as a golf architecture nerd - more of a country "retail golfer" - but he seemed very excited about what was going on there. I am too!

Looking forward to seeing more in the spring.

[PCCraig]

Looks like a really nice spot. Looking forward to following the progress, Brian!

[Nick Church]

Thank you very much for this thread.  I played the old course once while a student at WKU.  I'm very much looking forward to a fresh, interesting place to play in SoKY.

[Jason Thurman]

I've been out of commission most of the last month or so, and want to thank Brian and John for their responses here.


I continue to be intrigued and excited by the news and photos I see. At least in pics, the contours of the greens and fairways really seem to just hug the natural lay of the land, but there's a creativity in shaping and detail that separates the aesthetic from the run-of-the-mill options available throughout Kentucky. So much of Kentucky's public golf is budget friendly and minimalist-by-necessity - low-frills courses full of holes that go from Point A to Point B, where they finish on a round, flattish green. By contrast, you'll find some more "upscale" courses that tend to play through housing and rely a lot on superfluous features rather than thoughtful, sustainable design concepts.


The idea of a course, fairly modest in length with an emphasis on fun factor, with 25 or so meaningful and handsome bunkers, and bold but natural contours throughout in a beautiful setting sounds like a real win. It has the potential to deliver a brand of golf that aligns with the best of what Kentucky golf offers - beautiful distraction-free settings, emphasis on the game over the frills that often accompany it, lay-of-the-land architecture at a fair price - while also delivering some things that are rare in the state, like interesting greens and playing strategy. That's a lot to speculate from photos, but I'm optimistic about what I see.


Brian, I suspect I"ll be nagging you about a tour once things get a little warmer...

[Brian Ross]

The idea of a course, fairly modest in length with an emphasis on fun factor, with 25 or so meaningful and handsome bunkers, and bold but natural contours throughout in a beautiful setting sounds like a real win. It has the potential to deliver a brand of golf that aligns with the best of what Kentucky golf offers - beautiful distraction-free settings, emphasis on the game over the frills that often accompany it, lay-of-the-land architecture at a fair price - while also delivering some things that are rare in the state, like interesting greens and playing strategy. That's a lot to speculate from photos, but I'm optimistic about what I see.

Thanks, Jason! I think the paragraph above really hits the nail on the head on what we were trying to build at PMGC. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the "clubhouse" which is going to be 1,500 square feet and will include only a small golf shop, bathrooms, and a F&B operation. There will be a big wraparound deck facing out onto the course where you will be able to see at least parts of 15 holes and which will look out over the punchbowl green that we built on Hole 18. There will also be a large covered pavilion adjacent to the 9th green that will have a few fire pits, tables & chairs, etc. Beyond that, it is a pure golf experience in a really great setting.

I would be happy to have you (and anyone else who's interested) out to check things out this spring/summer.

[Josh Bills]

At only 4 1/2 hours from Columbus, Ohio, I would be interested in checking it out as well.  Looking at the bunkerless Cave Valley course, this appears quite a transformation.  Thank you for sharing all the information and details. 

[Adam Warren]

I am in Louisville, so am pretty interested in the progress here.  I can't remember the last new build in Kentucky. I'm guessing it was around the 2006-2008 timeframe.


Curious about the comment about the course kind of "sitting in a bowl."  I'm sure the builders/architects are aware of this, but if the pond on property isn't at the bottom of the bowl it seems like there will be a lot of drainage issues at the holes in that bottom area.  I'm sure Brian can speak to that concern but just wanted to discuss.

[Brian Ross]

I am in Louisville, so am pretty interested in the progress here.  I can't remember the last new build in Kentucky. I'm guessing it was around the 2006-2008 timeframe.

Curious about the comment about the course kind of "sitting in a bowl."  I'm sure the builders/architects are aware of this, but if the pond on property isn't at the bottom of the bowl it seems like there will be a lot of drainage issues at the holes in that bottom area.  I'm sure Brian can speak to that concern but just wanted to discuss.

Adam,

When you see mention of the course being in a bowl, that's really talking about the topography of the entire valley (of which the course is only a portion). If you were to stand in the middle of the course and look outward in any direction, everything in the distance would be uphill from you. The course itself, though, has 160 feet of fall from the high point (16 tee in the northeast corner) to the low point (the pond fronting 7 green on the southern boundary). The drainage challenge here was that the valley does not flow consistently downhill for those 160 vertical feet. Instead, it rises and falls as it makes its way downhill through the middle of the course and there are a series of sinkholes along the floor of the valley which water flows into. Some of these holes are the size of a trash can and a couple are the size of a school bus. The largest is located just south of the golf course and is one of the lowest points of the entire area for miles in any direction. Flowing underneath all of this, approximately 300-450 feet below the surface depending on where you are in the valley, is an underground stream/river.

As anyone who has spent time in south-central KY can attest, this is a really interesting area topographically. It can be almost links-like in nature but on a much larger scale (and not sandy!). In a normal environment, one might expect to find a swale that leads to a ditch, which empties into a creek, which flows into a river, etc. until it reaches the ocean. That isn't always the case here (or it happens, but it's happening underground where you can't see it) and it makes for some really interesting land forms.

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