[Tommy Williamsen]

Most of us like half-par holes. What gives you greater pleasure? Birdieing a half-four or paring a four and a half? As I get older there seem to be more par four and a halfs than there used to be. I generally am happier when I par them than birdie the shorter fours and fives.

[Jim Hoak]

To me, nothing feels better than a birdie--even on easy holes.  It just feels like it all came together--a memory of the distant past.
But I agree with the general proposition that half-pars are what make a course fun.

[Kalen Braley]

As a high capper, the birdie for sure, I'll take em however I can.

Even bogeying a tough half par hole on the high side doesn't feel too shabby either! 

[Tim Martin]

Most of us like half-par holes. What gives you greater pleasure? Birdieing a half-four or paring a four and a half? As I get older there seem to be more par four and a halfs than there used to be. I generally am happier when I par them than birdie the shorter fours and fives.

Tommy-There are two four and a halfs at my home course on the inward nine. I like to make birdies as much as anyone else but pars on either of these holes or dare to dream both is the bigger prize for me.

[Andrew Harvie]

What about birdieing the par 4 that plays a half stroke over?

[Tommy Williamsen]

What about birdieing the par 4 that plays a half stroke over?

Right, how good is that!?!

[Tom_Doak]

We built a bunch of these at Memorial Park . . .
13 is a very short 4
14 a very long 4
16 a reachable 5
17 a drivable par-4, if they'd moved the tee up 
18 a very hard 4.

[Tim Martin]

We built a bunch of these at Memorial Park . . .
13 is a very short 4
14 a very long 4
16 a reachable 5
17 a drivable par-4, if they'd moved the tee up 
18 a very hard 4.

I like the hard/very hard par 4 18th for either medal or match play. Especially when there are shots given in match play.

[Tom_Doak]

I like the hard/very hard par 4 18th for either medal or match play. Especially when there are shots given in match play.

In general, I prefer a finishing hole that offers more chance of a birdie to win, but on an existing course we had to take the length where we could get it.


Plus the winner Carlos Ortiz birdied the hole anyway, to win by two.

[Andrew Harvie]

Stanley Thompson used to love the concept of like 470 yard par 5's and 220 par 3's. Really messed with your mind playing them because the 5's are almost 4's and the 3's almost play closer to a 4. Jasper's a good example of this. Three of the par 5's at 3000 feet above sea level are less than 500 yards, while 2 par 3's are over 230!

[Ben Hollerbach]

I feel more fulfilled making a 4 on a long par 4 than making a 3 on a short par 4.


Making a 3 on a short hole feels more expected, much like making a 5 on a long hole. While making par in both situations, If the hole is short I will feel like I gave up a stroke, especially if I didn't 2 putt from close distance for the 4. Scrambling for a 4 on a short par 4 means I messed up to get there, on a long par 4, scrambling for a par is how you make 4.

[Tim Gallant]

Ben,


Good points.


I am thinking of 1 and 2 on Sunningdale Old. I'd almost always rather make a 4 on the second than the 1st. It just feels like a greater achievement!

[Mark_Fine]

We talk about half par holes a lot on this site.  I think few golfers (outside this site) would know what we are talking about because you can't make half a par.  Maybe it is a GCAltas term     There are "easy" holes and "hard" holes but is that the definition of a half par hole?  Or are we defining half par holes primarily because of length such as long par fours, long par threes and short par fives?  What about a short par three like 12 at Augusta or 17 at TPC Sawgrass?  These holes would definitely play well over par for the average golfer yet they are reachable for most everyone.  Would we call those half par holes?  Not sure.  I think half par holes are completely dependent on each individual golfer.  I could be mistaken but Ross for example is known for long par fours followed by short par fives or vice versa but I don't think he called them half par holes. 

[Andrew Harvie]

We talk about half par holes a lot on this site.  I think few golfers (outside this site) would know what we are talking about because you can't make half a par.  Maybe it is a GCAltas term     There are "easy" holes and "hard" holes but is that the definition of a half par hole?  Or are we defining half par holes primarily because of length such as long par fours, long par threes and short par fives?  What about a short par three like 12 at Augusta or 17 at TPC Sawgrass?  These holes would definitely play well over par for the average golfer yet they are reachable for most everyone.  Would we call those half par holes?  Not sure.  I think half par holes are completely dependent on each individual golfer.  I could be mistaken but Ross for example is known for long par fours followed by short par fives or vice versa but I don't think he called them half par holes.

I think for it to be a true "half par" hole it has to blur the lines between the standard conception of par. Augusta's 12th would likely be a standard "par 3" template, same with 17th at Augusta, but the 13th at Augusta might blur the lines a bit more. I wouldn't consider the 15th at Augusta a "half par" hole for 51 weeks of the year

[mike_malone]

Most of these 1/2 par holes are actually
.3 .4 .6.7

[Sean_A]

We talk about half par holes a lot on this site.  I think few golfers (outside this site) would know what we are talking about because you can't make half a par.  Maybe it is a GCAltas term     There are "easy" holes and "hard" holes but is that the definition of a half par hole?  Or are we defining half par holes primarily because of length such as long par fours, long par threes and short par fives?  What about a short par three like 12 at Augusta or 17 at TPC Sawgrass?  These holes would definitely play well over par for the average golfer yet they are reachable for most everyone.  Would we call those half par holes?  Not sure.  I think half par holes are completely dependent on each individual golfer.  I could be mistaken but Ross for example is known for long par fours followed by short par fives or vice versa but I don't think he called them half par holes.

I think of half par holes in terms of reachable. For instance, a very short 4 that a significant percentage of handicap can reach in one. "Half par" is misleading because its obvious that the average score among handicap golfers will be over par. I can only assume half par refers to pro average. 13 ANGC is probably an example of a literal half par because the scoring ave falls close to 4.5.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

We talk about half par holes a lot on this site.  I think few golfers (outside this site) would know what we are talking about because you can't make half a par.  Maybe it is a GCAltas term     There are "easy" holes and "hard" holes but is that the definition of a half par hole?  Or are we defining half par holes primarily because of length such as long par fours, long par threes and short par fives?  What about a short par three like 12 at Augusta or 17 at TPC Sawgrass?  These holes would definitely play well over par for the average golfer yet they are reachable for most everyone.  Would we call those half par holes?  Not sure.  I think half par holes are completely dependent on each individual golfer.  I could be mistaken but Ross for example is known for long par fours followed by short par fives or vice versa but I don't think he called them half par holes.

I think of half par holes in terms of reachable. For instance, a very short 4 that a significant percentage of handicap can reach in one. "Half par" is misleading because its obvious that the average score among handicap golfers will be over par. I can only assume half par refers to pro average. 13 ANGC is probably an example of a literal half par because the scoring ave falls close to 4.5.

Ciao

I'm really not thinking of half par holes for pros. We all have holes that we play that we think we should make a birdie on and holes that we will accept a bogey. At Westward Ho! I always thought I should make a birdie on 1, 9 (old one), and 10. On 3,12, and 18 bogey is ok.

[mike_beene]

Technology has increased the number of half-par type holes at St Andrews making TOC even more money interesting. Perhaps # 5, 9,10,12,14,17 and 18. What course with only two 5s has more?

[Bill Seitz]

The 5th at Cog Hill #4 used to be a par 4, and at some point became a par 5.  I think I took more pleasure from making par at the par four than making birdie at the par 5. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

The 5th at Cog Hill #4 used to be a par 4, and at some point became a par 5.  I think I took more pleasure from making par at the par four than making birdie at the par 5.

Isn't that interesting. I would feel the same way.
The first time I played Dormie was 2010. When I arrived at 13 my caddie told me it was the most difficult hole on the course. I was younger then and hit it farther than I do now and was playing the course all the way back. I looked at the card and the yardage was 505. I hit a decent drive and second shot and had a sand wedge into the green. I hit an acceptable shot but two putted for five. I looked at my caddie and said that I didn't think it was a particularly difficult par five. He said, "Sorry pal, it is a par four!"

[Tim Martin]

The 5th at Cog Hill #4 used to be a par 4, and at some point became a par 5.  I think I took more pleasure from making par at the par four than making birdie at the par 5.

Isn't that interesting. I would feel the same way.
The first time I played Dormie was 2010. When I arrived at 13 my caddie told me it was the most difficult hole on the course. I was younger then and hit it farther than I do now and was playing the course all the way back. I looked at the card and the yardage was 505. I hit a decent drive and second shot and had a sand wedge into the green. I hit an acceptable shot but two putted for five. I looked at my caddie and said that I didn't think it was a particularly difficult par five. He said, "Sorry pal, it is a par four!"

I had a friend call me after playing Wannamoisett and he said he didn’t know why everyone talked about the difficulty of the 2nd hole as “I made a five.” I told him he needed to look at the scorecard as it’s a par four.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The 5th at Cog Hill #4 used to be a par 4, and at some point became a par 5.  I think I took more pleasure from making par at the par four than making birdie at the par 5.

Isn't that interesting. I would feel the same way.
The first time I played Dormie was 2010. When I arrived at 13 my caddie told me it was the most difficult hole on the course. I was younger then and hit it farther than I do now and was playing the course all the way back. I looked at the card and the yardage was 505. I hit a decent drive and second shot and had a sand wedge into the green. I hit an acceptable shot but two putted for five. I looked at my caddie and said that I didn't think it was a particularly difficult par five. He said, "Sorry pal, it is a par four!"

I had a friend call me after playing Wannamoisett and he said he didn’t know why everyone talked about the difficulty of the 2nd hole as “I made a five.” I told him he needed to look at the scorecard as it’s a par four.

I remember that hole. It is a beast. It is followed by one of the shortest par fours on the course at some 130 yards.

[Michael Felton]

On the New course at Walton Heath, 12 and 13 are both half par holes. 12 is a par 4, 485 yards, downhill, but with a big bunker fronting the green, so you really have to hit two very good shots to get on it. If it's into the wind it's really hard. 13 is a par 5, about 510. They run parallel to each other, so if you play 12 into the wind then 13 is down it and 13 is an easier hole to make 4 on than 12 in those conditions. Goal is to get through those two in 9 shots. Doesn't really matter which way round you do it. If you manage 8 for the two of them then that's great.


I know that in my head when I look at the card, if I see a 470 yard par 4, I'm thinking wow that's gonna be a tough par. If I see a 490 yard par 5, I'm thinking, oo that should be an easy birdie. Doesn't really make sense I know, but that's where I am in my head.

[Tom_Doak]

On the New course at Walton Heath, 12 and 13 are both half par holes. 12 is a par 4, 485 yards, downhill, but with a big bunker fronting the green, so you really have to hit two very good shots to get on it. If it's into the wind it's really hard. 13 is a par 5, about 510. They run parallel to each other, so if you play 12 into the wind then 13 is down it and 13 is an easier hole to make 4 on than 12 in those conditions. Goal is to get through those two in 9 shots. Doesn't really matter which way round you do it. If you manage 8 for the two of them then that's great.

One thing that's not often discussed in this light is that sometimes we determine whether the hole should be a par-4 or a par-5 depending on the par of the holes around it.


For example, in the example you cited, having both holes as par-4's would be ridiculously hard, having them both as par-5's would be seen as a pushover, but having the total par be 9 conforms well with the reality of how they play.


Likewise, lots of people have asked me about the 13th hole at St. Andrews Beach and how on earth I decided that hole should be a par-4 . . . it had a lot to do with the next hole being drivable, and not wanting the two of them to be very "easy birdie" holes back to back.  On its own merits, yes, the 13th would receive a lot less complaint if they just called it a par-5.  In reality, it shouldn't matter what you call it, it's still the same hole.

[Michael Felton]

On the New course at Walton Heath, 12 and 13 are both half par holes. 12 is a par 4, 485 yards, downhill, but with a big bunker fronting the green, so you really have to hit two very good shots to get on it. If it's into the wind it's really hard. 13 is a par 5, about 510. They run parallel to each other, so if you play 12 into the wind then 13 is down it and 13 is an easier hole to make 4 on than 12 in those conditions. Goal is to get through those two in 9 shots. Doesn't really matter which way round you do it. If you manage 8 for the two of them then that's great.

One thing that's not often discussed in this light is that sometimes we determine whether the hole should be a par-4 or a par-5 depending on the par of the holes around it.


For example, in the example you cited, having both holes as par-4's would be ridiculously hard, having them both as par-5's would be seen as a pushover, but having the total par be 9 conforms well with the reality of how they play.


Likewise, lots of people have asked me about the 13th hole at St. Andrews Beach and how on earth I decided that hole should be a par-4 . . . it had a lot to do with the next hole being drivable, and not wanting the two of them to be very "easy birdie" holes back to back.  On its own merits, yes, the 13th would receive a lot less complaint if they just called it a par-5.  In reality, it shouldn't matter what you call it, it's still the same hole.

That's a really interesting point. I know that in the back of my mind, I expect a par four to perhaps have a larger green since it's "supposed" to be hit with your second shot, while a par five might have a smaller green since it's "supposed" to be hit with a wedge. Of course there's no reason that should be the case. I know a lot of the complaints about the 1st on the Old course there are that it used to be a short par four, so the green slopes away from you and is really "designed" to be hit with a wedge, so now it's a huge par 3, it's really hard to hit it in regulation. People don't like that.


The counter to my thoughts about what a hole "should" look like based on its par is that on the combined course, one par 4 plays as a par 5 and three par 5s play as par 4s (including the 13th on the New - those two do have a par of 8 in that instance, although the yardages are both typically played shorter at like 440 and 470). The combined course is a monster and could be stretched out to about 7,700 yards if they wanted to. If the par 5s were all played as par 5s, then you'd have 11, 13, 14 and 16 all be par 5s, which would be quite imbalanced.

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