[Tim Gavrich]

I'm thinking of all the tiers, gathering and shedding slopes, considerable difference in green shapes and sizes, the occasional need for indirect angle-taking on certain greenside shots. These are examples of the sorts of features we often associate with holes and courses we call "quirky," aren't they?


I personally love quirky golf features, so this question should not be taken as leading toward criticism. Just curious whether you also think the basket of standout features that define the course - specifically the green complexes - might fit the definition of the term (I know we struggle to nail down an agreeable definition sometimes).

[Mark_Fine]

Call it whatever term you like, if The Masters was not played here, most on this site would think differently about the golf course. 


Many here say history and tradition and ambience,..., all the intangibles should not impact the overall opinions of what makes a great golf course.  Augusta is a good example of why they might be wrong     Why would any architect for example who just built a brand new course think those intangibles should mean anything since their course has little to none to start!  Golf is much more than just the physical playing field and what happens on it impacts how we feel about it.   

[Andrew Harvie]

I've lost the definition of "quirky" if Augusta National is quirky

[Tom_Doak]

I've lost the definition of "quirky" if Augusta National is quirky

I agree.  It's hard to call anything quirky if it has been analyzed to death, and every single square inch of Augusta National has been analyzed to death.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tim -

this year I'm seeing the course better than in years past, and so it feels like I'm getting a glimpse of what Jones and Mackenzie first saw in that very rolling topography, and what they might've envisioned.

And, while quirk may not be the first word that comes to mind, I am left wondering what other courses Jones had played up to that point (in the US or the UK) that were built on anything close to the same kind of site.

[And that's a genuine question -- do folks know what courses he'd played that featured such dramatic elevation changes?]

Which is to say: for Jones (if not for Mackenzie) his imagination may have been working overtime in order to 'see' the potential golf holes there; they wouldn't have seemed straight-forward to him, would they? And in that sense, maybe there is indeed -- or at least there was and used to be -- an element of quirk there.

[Thomas Dai]

Given that so many holes were 'copied', sorry I mean 'inspired by', holes on other courses, that one original hole doesn't even exist anymore and that so many other holes have been considerably tweaked, maybe it's the courses/holes where MacKenzie/Jones got there inspiration from where we should be looking for 'quirk?
atb

[Mike Hendren]

Yes, primarily the greens:


The wingnut 2nd green
The Road Hole 5th green
The back right knob on the 6th green
The mounding flanking the 8th green
The blind, sloping 10th tee shot
The sliver green at the 12th
The undulating 13th green and rear trench
The outrageous 14th green
The chute off the 18th tee.


Then again, I think it is perhaps the best golf course in the world - quirky, penal (Eldrick just made a 10 at the 12th) and strategic all at once.


Bogey

[jeffwarne]

Yes, primarily the greens:


The wingnut 2nd green
The Road Hole 5th green
The back right knob on the 6th green
The mounding flanking the 8th green
The blind, sloping 10th tee shot
The sliver green at the 12th
The undulating 13th green and rear trench
The outrageous 14th green
The chute off the 18th tee.


Then again, I think it is perhaps the best golf course in the world - quirky, penal (Eldrick just made a 10 at the 12th) and strategic all at once.


Bogey

agreed with just about all of that
Left out the severe nature of the third shot n 15 after a layup


was just trying to decide the quirkiest feature on #8
The dogleg second shot(with ample room for a layup or miss)
The trees protecting that dogleg
or the left mounds protecting same
whic makes it one of my favorite par 5's in golf in a tough neighborhood

[Tim Gavrich]

I've lost the definition of "quirky" if Augusta National is quirky

I agree.  It's hard to call anything quirky if it has been analyzed to death, and every single square inch of Augusta National has been analyzed to death.

Interesting - I hadn't considered that an element of "quirk" might have to do with notoriety.


I've always seen Tobacco Road as one of the more quirky well-known courses in the U.S. But does its increased notoriety among golfers make it less quirky?


Is TOC no longer quirky because it's been analyzed for so long by so many? Not sure how I feel about that.

[Mike Hendren]

JW, good thoughts on the 8th and 15th.  The second shot at the 8th is one of the most visually intimidating I’ve seen.  It is an absolutely brilliant golf hole covering ill-suited terrain.


While most might consider the 15th to be strategic I see it as extremely penal - one cannot play for par by laying up as the pitch over the pond might be more difficult than going for the green in two, especially with today’s distances.

[AChao]

From watching it on TV, the course seems like it has a "lot" of in between par holes ... so much that I wonder if it is too much while playing it.  That being said, the Masters is "Masterpiece Theater" to me.  I'd love to see in real life if it plays the way it appears on TV as I, like most, have never played the course.

[Chris Kane]

Is TOC no longer quirky because it's been analyzed for so long by so many? Not sure how I feel about that.

Can the original golf course which serves as the template for every subsequent one be "quirky"?

[Tim Gavrich]

Is TOC no longer quirky because it's been analyzed for so long by so many? Not sure how I feel about that.

Can the original golf course which serves as the template for every subsequent one be "quirky"?

Interesting question, Chris. Merriam-Webster has "quirky" defined as "unusual in especially an interesting or appealing way." I'd say that even though it's in the region where golf was first played, on a global scale the irregular contours on the ground and specific features like the Road green definitely satisfy the definition of "quirky," IMO. I think it's also fair to say the extent to which TOC has been a template for latter-day courses has loosened to such an extent that it usually only has a pretty tenuous influence.


Back to ANGC, I think of the green complex at 8 as a standout for quirkiness. It's both interesting and appealing, and its like is nowhere to be found on the vast majority of the world's golf courses.


For whatever reasons, I suspect ANGC's architectural oddity has been de-emphasized over the years, such that its well-documented influence has come mostly in setting golfers' expectations about maintenance. If only it had mostly set golfers' expectations about architecture, how much more interesting would the average golf course (hell, average green complex) be?

[Ronald Montesano]

15 is a bad hole.


The Masters is quirky. Can't speak for the course.

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