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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
One of my varsity guys wrote the following proposal for his senior thesis:

how did the era in which a golf architect worked, determine how she/he accessed land and built courses that do or do not stand the test of time.

I would like for him to email working architects and get some first-hand backstory. If you are a practicing architect and would be available to exchange an email or two with him, contact me at buffalogolferATgmail.com.

He will also consult books by some of the ODG that we know on this site. If you would like to recommend a tome, please use the same email address to send me the recommendation.

Gracias de antemano
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 09:23:10 PM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Help with a high school senior thesis: practicing architects need apply
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2020, 09:22:55 PM »
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I spoke about this site and DG for so long, that one of the varsity lads finally took me up on my offer to guide a thesis on golf course architecture.


Don't let him down, archies!
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ron


Great to see this kind of interest.


In addition to architects, there may be merit in speaking with people affiliated with clubs with courses from golden age through the present. I imagine that the finished product is really only the beginning of the inquiry...


Lots to mine here. Wetlands legislation, attitudes towards carts (embrace or reject); maintenance standards at the time of construction etc. All of these factor into site selection, construction and evolution


Using S.E./South Central Pennsylvania as a geographic focal point, you could learn a lot by interviewing the people involved in the following projects or green chairs and superintendents (where the clubs are well past the first generation of ownership/membership):


1. Stonewall - private with heavy emphasis on walking only golf


2. LedgeRock - private on a more challenging site for which cart use is contemplated


3. Lederach - public, with housing, wetlands, cart heavy


4. Bent Creek - private housing


5. Moselem - private 1960's George Fazio


6.  Bedford Springs - golden age resort rehabilitated for modern resort play


7.  Any Philly golden age classic


This kind of survey could be replicated all over the country of course but with so many SE PA participants on the site (Alan Fitzgerald - LedgeRock, Kelly Blake Moran - Lederach, Jim Nagle and Ron Forse - Bedford, Tom - Stonewall) etc., your student get a lot of material and tie it together with the geographic link . . . if interested in discussing further please PM me.




Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8)  Ron,


Looks like the practicing architects are either too busy or no longer in existence (NLE)?


When I was on short term disability leave from work, back in spring 2015 i found the history of NGLA very interesting, as well as some of the big gca.com argument threads, on it, plenty of intrigue and behind the scenes scheming and inventiveness regarding the properiy development... and the Wall Street Bankers & families influences...  quite some history there that may be a subject for the thesis
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ronald,


While I did privately contact you, I will also say I believe the ability to stand the test of time lies mostly with the routing skill of the gca in any era, if he wants a simple answer.  If a course survives 100 years with the same routing, more or less, even if it has had features rebuilt a few times, it has by definition, stood the test of time.  Routing can be permanent, features rarely are.


The details do change from decade to decade, but for all the talk of modern guys raping the land because they know they can move the earth to correct faulty routings, I don't think that is very common.  We try to follow the land as much as possible, and the additional earthmoving probably comes from building irrigation lakes and bigger features.


So, every era has its challenges. 


-Early guys couldn't move as much earth, but had fewer environmental off limits areas. 


-They had less play to deal with, and could put greens and tees closer together, which makes sense when golf was 100% a walking game, whereas modern guys have to consider paths and wayward golf balls more.




- Mid century guys and beyond had to learn to adapt technology to their designs as it became available, all while adhering to ancient design principles.


-And so forth.

Of course, if we are narrowly defining his question about accessing the land, I would say that has changed from walking and horse to walking and truck or ATV, etc.  On a few projects, access might be by low flying helicopter.  And, it may be morphing to drone.  What can't you see from a drone, without having to deal with the occasional snake?

(OT, but the only gca I have heard of getting bit or ill on a field walk was Frank Duane. in 1965 he was bitten by an insect and was stricken with Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a debilitating disease that soon confined him to a wheelchair.   I know Paul Cowley was bitten by a rattler (I think on a job) Ian Andrew was chased by a moose, but got away.  But for all the times we walk sites, I don't know of any major problems arising from "accessing the site."


Sorry for the OT, couldn't resist.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8)  Jeff,


No wild hog attacks at Lake Jackson?  The super there showed us two fences to keep the critters off!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Steve,


Yes I saw them, but no attacks.  Mostly they ran away, perhaps sensing how much I liked bacon?


I also stepped on a water moc, but it was this time of year and he was very slow, just sort of looked up at me and laid back down.  One of the few actual snake encounters I really had.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
I had sent you an email but have not heard from him...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Forgive the delay, architects. We just went from in-school to virtual last week. Our plan is to do 100% testing the Monday after Thanksgiving, and get back in the classroom. Everything is in a state of flux. I have not yet passed the information on to him. I appreciate your patience, and your willingness to assist.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
I currently have five volunteered architects, and would certainly welcome more. Thanks to those who have the time. If you haven't sent an email, address is buffalogolfer @ gmail . com


TYIA
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
I just gave the OK to his email. It should reach inboxes today or tomorrow. It is brief and targeted. I think that he will learn a lot from your expertise. If additional architects wish to assist this young man, send me an email at buffalogolfer @ gmail . com and I will pass your contact information on to him.


rm
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
My advisee is thrilled with the responses that he has received to date. Gratitude beyond Thanksgiving to the archies that have reached out thus far. He will benefit from additional input, so if you haven't yet contacted me (and wish to assist the young man) my email continues to be buffalogolfer @ gmail . com

Thank you in advance/Gracias de antemano.

rm
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

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