[David Ober]

13 is nigh untouchable for me. As a guy who can't reach it in two, I absolutely love that third shot over the ravine.


The hole could be made much better by allowing room left and cutting the entire area starting at 175 well, well out into the area that is currently "scrub" and making it fairway. You want to "lay-up? You're going to have a tough third. You want to "go for it" in 2? You have to hit a great shot.


What the hole absolutely needs? A larger green.


The greens there routinely run 12 to 13.5+ October through March, and there are very few pinnable spots on that green when it's running that fast. Need much more room left and short on that green. Played an invitational there one year and guys were 5 and 6 putting the green from 12 - 18 feet. Hit a ball to the hole? BACK to you it would roll. They contemplated moving the hole after 7 or 8 groups and finally let the pin position stand. My partner and I were lucky to 3-putt from 12 feet, straight up the hill.

[Tim Leahy]

Matt, it's hard for me to see getting rid of 13. Yes, it's is a nice view going back the other way, but 1) you'd lose the current 13 tee area, and 2) it's a pretty cool hole the way it is now with the ravine in front. It would also give you three holes with the cliff on the left and none with the cliff on the right.


There are plenty of holes that could easily be replaced at Sandpiper but I wouldn't see this as one of them.

+1

[Alex Miller]

13 is nigh untouchable for me. As a guy who can't reach it in two, I absolutely love that third shot over the ravine.


The hole could be made much better by allowing room left and cutting the entire area starting at 175 well, well out into the area that is currently "scrub" and making it fairway. You want to "lay-up? You're going to have a tough third. You want to "go for it" in 2? You have to hit a great shot.


What the hole absolutely needs? A larger green.


The greens there routinely run 12 to 13.5+ October through March, and there are very few pinnable spots on that green when it's running that fast. Need much more room left and short on that green. Played an invitational there one year and guys were 5 and 6 putting the green from 12 - 18 feet. Hit a ball to the hole? BACK to you it would roll. They contemplated moving the hole after 7 or 8 groups and finally let the pin position stand. My partner and I were lucky to 3-putt from 12 feet, straight up the hill.

My assumption: no way the CCC allows any scrub to be cut

[Ronald Montesano]

Putting up shots from 2015 at Sandpiper, about this time of year. Visit my Instagram https://www.instagram.com/buffalogolfer/ to see what there is. Going hole by hole. First three holes are up. Unedited, unrefined.

[Ronald Montesano]

Got mixed up. Holes 1,2,8 are up. 3, 4, 5 going up this morning.

[Ronald Montesano]

Entire front nine is up on Instagram below. Back nine coming later today and tomorrow. It occurs to me that the sad little sixth hole might be the first place where a renovation makes an alteration.

For the afeared, you can visit Instagram without having an account nor a commitment.

https://www.instagram.com/buffalogolfer/

Unedited, unrefined.

[Ronald Montesano]

Keep 1 through 5 and turn the 7th into the 6th, the 8th into the 7th, the 9th into the 8th, and the 18th into the 9th.

Keep 10 through 13 as they are. Turn 17th into new 18th. Reverse old 16th into new 14th. New 15th is a short par three. New 16th is a short par four that gets you back up to the cliffs, close to the northwest corner.

Tee new #16 as a medium par five, cliffside, heading south. New #17 is a drop shot par three, from cliffs down to new 18th tee adjacent.

[Ronald Montesano]

Does that spare green on 13 Sandpiper still exist? If so, why? It seems to be the most boring iteration of a putting surface in human record. No bunkers, no internal contours, NaDa.

[Robert_Ball]

As someone who lives within walking distance to Sandpiper this is all great news, although I'm not holding my breath.


Rumor has it that when the last oil platform was being taken down, the EPA or CCC came rushing in to stop them from removing the posts that still stand alone, a quarter mile off the shore. Why? They had become a bird sanctuary of sorts...You'll see what I mean next time you play there.


Here's the 1930 oil field aerial that I think Tom is referring to...



The large container in the top-left sits on today's parking lot. The one below it would be a little right of the 10th fairway. The 1975 topo map shows the locations of all the tanks, platforms, etc.


Crude production at the Ellwood oil fields was so high that the Japanese bombed the area shortly after the attack at Pearl Harbor.


@Ronald, yes that spare green on 13 is still there. I haven't seen it used in over a year.


@David, The area left/north of #1 green is a historical landmark- a very cool former gas station and restaurant building. I drive by it every day and often see people outside taking pictures, so I don't think expansion in that direction is an option.


FWIW, this course is considered one of the better William Francis Bell designs. But it does leave you wanting more from the valley that runs in front of 1 green, through 2 fairway and in front of 3 and 5 tees.


Obviously in the "great 17 hole courses" discussion. I always thought it should finish with #9.

[Ronald Montesano]

All 18 hole are now on https://www.instagram.com/buffalogolfer/

Current Layout: https://www.sandpipergolf.com/images/documents/sandpiper_scorecard.pdf

Today, I'm thinking that we tee off to the west. Start things off with a bang. Make #10 your first hole. Play 10-12 and then jump to current 18th as new number 4.

[Ronald Montesano]

And I lied...you do need an Instagram account to view the images. You can set yours to private, follow no one, and view the images.

[Alex Miller]

Keep 1 through 5 and turn the 7th into the 6th, the 8th into the 7th, the 9th into the 8th, and the 18th into the 9th.

Keep 10 through 13 as they are. Turn 17th into new 18th. Reverse old 16th into new 14th. New 15th is a short par three. New 16th is a short par four that gets you back up to the cliffs, close to the northwest corner.

Tee new #16 as a medium par five, cliffside, heading south. New #17 is a drop shot par three, from cliffs down to new 18th tee adjacent.

I count 2 16th's - did I read that right?


I also don't know if I can picture a par 4 getting to the NW corner and leaving room for a par 5 the other direction along the cliffs. Would also make for one less cliffside hole - and the driving area for the new par 5 would now be on the steepest sloped part of the fairway similar to where it is now.


Do you think the new finishing hole being so far from the clubhouse would be awkward?

[Ronald Montesano]

You are correct. Let me go back over my numbers ... yup, two 16th holes. Got so excited!!


I guess if 180 yards from the clubhouse is a lot, so be it. You could leave the old 18th as a bye hole, which would then allow my two 16s to exist.

[David Ober]

You are correct. Let me go back over my numbers ... yup, two 16th holes. Got so excited!!


I guess if 180 yards from the clubhouse is a lot, so be it. You could leave the old 18th as a bye hole, which would then allow my two 16s to exist.

You live in Santa Barbara, Ron? I'm in SoCal. When are we going to play golf???

[Ronald Montesano]

David, most days I wish. My Instagram handle (BuffaloGolfer) should give you an idea where I am located. I was out west in 2015, visiting schools like the one where I teach, on sabbatical. While visiting a former colleague at the Cate School, I stopped in to play/photograph Sandpiper. Don't know if I'll get back out there in this lifetime, but I did love my time in Cali.

[Matthew Petersen]

Matt, it's hard for me to see getting rid of 13. Yes, it's is a nice view going back the other way, but 1) you'd lose the current 13 tee area, and 2) it's a pretty cool hole the way it is now with the ravine in front. It would also give you three holes with the cliff on the left and none with the cliff on the right.


There are plenty of holes that could easily be replaced at Sandpiper but I wouldn't see this as one of them.

Matt


I can go either way.


I've always been a bit underwhelmed by the 13th, which is more or less the "signature" hole at Sandpiper, but doesn't do a lot for me in reality. (To me the 10th should be more of the signature hole in terms of views and qualiy but I bet more people go home remember 11 or 13.)


It's significant that the view is notably better looking back from the green toward the tee than it is looking down the hole as it is currently played.


Then again, there's not a spot for a green as good as where the 13th green currently sits if you flip it around. The area where the tee currently sits is too small. It does seem kind of a shame to waste that wonderful natural feature with the barranca running out to the ocean and the green site just beyond. Also, if you can have holes playing with ocean on the left and right that's probably ideal for wind, etc.

[Robert_Ball]

IMO, the major flaw with 13 is that the fairway does not extend far enough to the right, therefore there is no temptation to hug the coast, which would leave a 2nd shot that does not have to carry the bunker, and benefits from a backstop behind the green. In the 2nd photo above, you can clearly see the amount of rough, mostly unmaintained, down the right side. Also, the slope is a bit steeper, and would probably give you another 5 yards.


As I think David mentioned, they could also extend the fairway to the left to create a safe angle to the layup area, left of the green.

[AChao]

Friend in Santa Barbara is hearing there will be a lot of resources poured into this project ... any one hear any updates?

[Tom_Doak]

Friend in Santa Barbara is hearing there will be a lot of resources poured into this project ... any one hear any updates?

It’s still in permitting and I’ve been assured it won’t happen this year.

[AChao]

Thank you Tom!

Friend in Santa Barbara is hearing there will be a lot of resources poured into this project ... any one hear any updates?

It’s still in permitting and I’ve been assured it won’t happen this year.

[Alex Miller]

Friend in Santa Barbara is hearing there will be a lot of resources poured into this project ... any one hear any updates?

It’s still in permitting and I’ve been assured it won’t happen this year.

Thanks Tom - are you able to comment on the extent of the potential changes to what is on the ground there today?

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