[John Kavanaugh]

I still remember the day at the fall festival when looking down at the ground I found $17. It was the late 60's and that was a lot of money.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Where do you see that written?  And, if back in the old days, maybe someone said it. If it was post 2000, they would probably have delved deeper into emotional intelligence, personality type, etc.  A fuller, but possibly still "full of it" assessment by modern mindsets, LOL>

[John Kavanaugh]

I mention that day in my life because it was the first time I came home with more money than when I left. It made me feel smart. The truth of the matter is that I spent the next three days walking around the fall festival looking at the ground while my buddies had their heads up looking at girls. The Good Dr. found a bunch a great stuff on the ground but what did he do on an intellectual level to earn the respect given to him today.

[Kalen Braley]

John,

This is a fair question.  For me it comes down to what did he write about GCA, and what did he put in the ground.  For me I really dig both.  Is this evidence for being smart? Can't say for sure I guess, but he sure did seem to know what the hell he was doing, on several occasions to boot..

[John Kavanaugh]

Please give one specific example of what he built.

[Kalen Braley]

Pasatiempo.

To take a severe site like that, and get such a great collection of diverse holes with varying shot requirements was pretty superb, especially that back 9 which is nothing short of genius.

[John Kavanaugh]

Hardly a specific example. Genius rarely leads to below average first and last holes. It would be like looking at my toes and ears and saying I’m not fat.

[Marty Bonnar]

A degree in medicine?
Or, are we talking only ‘golf smarts’?

[Dan_Callahan]

Is there any evidence he was dumb?

[Tony_Muldoon]

The fact we are still talking about him and his work...


Also define smart, smarty-pants.

[John Kavanaugh]

A degree in medicine?
Or, are we talking only ‘golf smarts’?

Really? During a pandemic.

[Carl Rogers]

From what I have read about him over time is that he was able to inspire a lot of other smart people during his life time and beyond to do great work ..... and that makes him plenty smart, imo.

[Steve Lang]

HIs first quote I see searching ain't bad...


The ideal hole is surely one that affords the greatest pleasure to the greatest number, gives the fullest advantage for accurate play, stimulates players to improve their game, and never becomes monotonous. "Golf Architecture: Economy in Course Construction and Greenkeeping".

are you stirred or shaken?

[Jimmy Muratt]

By definition, the adjective  "smart" means:
    -  quick or prompt in action, as persons.
    -  having or showing quick intelligence or ready mental capability:  a smart student.
    -  shrewd or sharp, as a person in dealing with others or as in business dealings:  a smart businessman.

To appreciate that Alister Mackenzie was smart, one only has to look at the prolific two month stretch that he spent in Australia.  Look at the influence that he had in that brief amount of time by literally transforming the golfing landscape in Australia, particularly the Sandbelt region.   He introduced strategic golf to that part of the world and left us with many of the best golf courses in the world.   

[John Kavanaugh]

One specific example.

[Michael Dugger]

The recognition that golf is best when presented as fun makes him smart in my mind.


Fun doesn't necessarily mean easy, however, so don't go off about how his greens certainly are not easy.


I always liked his quote about pleasurable excitement having positive impacts on health.


So, I think it is somewhat fair to say he was Pete Dye before Pete Dye.  In other words, make hazards appears mean and scary, but really it's just eye candy.  Because it's more thrilling to navigate something you think is daunting, even though it actually is not.


Strategic design, as opposed to penal, gives golfer hope.  Hope is a very powerful concept. 


The distinction is somewhat encapsulated by what one of my buddies said about his caddy one time years back.  My buddy didn't like that the caddy continued to tell him "where not to go" instead of telling him where to go.  He didn't like the mindset that was planted in always being told not where to go.


In conclusion, recognizing that golfers are more likely to pick up the game, and stick with the game, if it is thrilling and fun, indicates some type of higher intelligence, in my opinion, considering the game will not survive without supporters. 

[John Kavanaugh]

By definition, the adjective  "smart" means:
    -  quick or prompt in action, as persons.
    -  having or showing quick intelligence or ready mental capability:  a smart student.
    -  shrewd or sharp, as a person in dealing with others or as in business dealings:  a smart businessman.

To appreciate that Alister Mackenzie was smart, one only has to look at the prolific two month stretch that he spent in Australia.  Look at the influence that he had in that brief amount of time by literally transforming the golfing landscape in Australia, particularly the Sandbelt region.   He introduced strategic golf to that part of the world and left us with many of the best golf courses in the world.

He didn’t get paid for Augusta. Let’s drop the smart businessman acumen.

[Jimmy Muratt]

No mention of Augusta in my post.  And, regardless, Augusta was designed late in life once Mackenzie's career and reputation had long been established.   As I wrote in my post, the amount of work and influence that he had in Australia over a short two month period should be proof enough of his intelligence.

To gain a full appreciation on Mackenzie's life and career, you may want to read "The Life and Work of Dr. Alister Mackenzie" by Doak.   

[SL_Solow]

Barney,  are you questioning the brilliance of his work?  I can't judge with certainty his intellectual capacity.  I know that his written work is quite good.  I know that he learned lessons about camouflage during his time in the military.  I know he earned a medical degree.  But none of these alone can establish where he stood intellectually.  Candidly, I am not sure why it matters.  I had law school classmates who were brilliant intellects but who couldn't stay out of their own way when faced with a real world problem.  These were rare cases but they existed. The only thing that matters for me is the brilliance of his work and what I can learn from it.  I also can learn from his writing.  Beyond that, I have little interest in constructing a posthumous IQ test.

[Andrew Harvie]

This is the weirdest thread I've seen in a long time

[SL_Solow]

Drew,   stick around.  This is nothing

[Kalen Braley]

Drew,   stick around.  This is nothing

Agreed,  This is tame by Barney's standards.  He was quiet for a few week there, but looks like he got the itch again! 

[Jim Sherma]

This made me laugh in a good way. Not much has done that lately - thanks for the moment of sanity.

Drew,   stick around.  This is nothing

[Peter Sayegh]

I was actually worried by JK's recent absence. Didn't know if he was alive and well. This post proves he's one of those.

[Peter Pallotta]

Drew,   stick around.  This is nothing

But it does seem to me that, in a present day context, Dr. Mac has gained more from Tom D than Tom D. has gained from Dr. Mac.

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