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Frank Sekulic

  • Karma: +0/-0
Galloway National
« on: October 11, 2020, 01:58:31 PM »
Is it worth the 2 hour drive?


I am going to be home in NJ, later in the week visiting family and was thinking of making the drive from Northern NJ.


I was supposed to play Essex County on the 15th but my host is going to be out of town.


For those who have played it, is Galloway worth the 4 hours round trip or should Inplay closer to home (Montclair NJ).


Thoughts?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 02:08:07 PM »
No
AKA Mayday

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 02:37:24 PM »
I am going to have to beg to differ with Mike.  Galloway is one of Fazio’s best overall designs.  I give it a 7.5-8 on the Doak scale.  Now is the time to play it as there should be less bugs.  It can be unplayable in the summer especially if there is no strong breeze. 

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2020, 03:16:49 PM »
   Not a fan.  Poor routing; lots of long walks between holes. Very punitive green complexes.  Prefer Hidden Creek.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 05:02:08 PM »
I find myself in agreement with Mark Fine.


Galloway is a very good Fazio design and while there are some lengthy green-to-tee walks, it's mostly flat and an easy walk. Fall is undoubtedly the best time of years as the pestilence of those nasty Greenhead flies is absent and conditioning is usually fast & firm.


The bunkering is quite good, with plenty of natural waste areas and strategically-placed hazards. It's important to play from the appropriate set of tees as the course almost gets exponentially more difficult the further back you go. The routing is also very well done and it traverses multiple wind directions. They have lovely practice range adjacent to the clubhouse


Yes, Hidden Creek is also a very good, highly-enjoyable "heathland-style" C&C. It isn't nearly as difficult as GN, and far more relenting off the tee. Enjoy!



The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 05:52:30 PM »
Other than some wonderful long distance views over the bay to the Atlantic City skyline  I felt it was an average Fazio design. Pretty, well maintained, over shaped and framed with too many shots with no strategic interest. GN is  fine members course but I would prefer Hidden Creek. My critique is based on a single play.
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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2020, 06:01:38 PM »
 8)




make the drive , its beautiful and has some great holes! ;)

Sure the routing is a little sketchy but there is all kinds of fun stuff there. Lots of birdies and some doubles too!




I would respectfully disagree with Jay on this one, bad member course (too tough) but lots of fun on a special occasion.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 06:06:12 PM by archie_struthers »

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2020, 06:40:10 PM »
Wow that course makes for strong feelings. I think it is very good Fazio, one of his best even. It is difficult and makes you golf your ball but it is indeed worth the drive. I do prefer Hidden Creek, however but GN is a great way to spend a day.
Take a caddie. It will be worth the money.
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"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2020, 06:53:04 PM »
Galloway is worth it.  It's a difficult course and, like others have said, the routing is typical Fazio with long distances from Green to the next Tee on some holes.  Members don't usually walk because of this, so if you're OK riding, the routing is a mere annoyance,


I've always felt this was a Fazio course that he actually spent some time working on.  Also agree that it's a bit tough as a member's course but a great experience if only playing it a few times a year.



I was a 17 year Hidden Creek member; the two courses are totally different.  HC is more fun but Galloway will challenge you -- also Galloway's conditioning is exceptional. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 06:58:24 PM by Mike Worth »

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2020, 08:26:03 PM »
I love GN.  Yes, it has a couple of long green to tee walks, but that is not uncommon on a modern golf course.  But the greens are superb.


Photo album from a 2019 round:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Galloway_2019/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2020, 08:32:03 PM »
I love GN.  Yes, it has a couple of long green to tee walks, but that is not uncommon on a modern golf course.  But the greens are superb.


Photo album from a 2019 round:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Galloway_2019/index.html


I thought the greens lacked flow. To me the changes in elevation were often unnatural.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 08:44:42 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2020, 09:27:07 PM »
  One quirk in the routing annoys me - you walk the par 3 8th hole 4 times.  You walk from the green to the tee while playing the parallel 7th; then you walk from the tee to the green when playing 8; then you walk back past the tee to get to the 9th tee; then you walk back past the green again when playing parallel 9th.  I find it weird.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2020, 09:49:39 PM »
The comments here are an excellent example why course ratings can vary so much yet people on this site crucify them to death.  We should all know there are few right or wrong opinions, yet all the Top 100 lists get bashed relentlessly as hogwash.  I am no expert on Fazio designs but I have played probably 50 or more of his courses and Galloway is near the top in my book.  I do agree that it is designed for the better golfer (similar to Pine Valley) so that will deter some from loving it.  I have also played a few dozen of C&C courses and while I really enjoy Hidden Creek, I wouldn’t list the course in their top 15 of the C&C’s designs that I have seen.  Hidden Creek is what I would call a “good members” course.  Fun to play, won’t beat you up.  It will definitely appeal over Galloway to the higher handicap golfer and that is just fine by me.  The burgers, however, are a 10! 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 09:53:16 PM by Mark_Fine »

Chris Mavros

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2020, 09:50:52 PM »
Fazio proclaimed it would be one his best courses, ever.  It's an interesting endorsement and I've always wondered how much of it has to do with whether he had more control here than other projects.  The course is on fabulous terrain inspired by Pinehurst and Pine Valley by one of the most famous course designers at the height of his popularity.  The result is a much more complex and intimate course than I anticipated.  I don't really see the routing issues some others have noted. 

If it were me knowing what I know, I'd make the drive.

I've always wanted to play Hidden Creek and Galloway on the same day just for the contrast in styles back to back like that.  They are certainly different but each is worth playing at least once for their own reasons. 

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2020, 09:54:20 PM »
Chris,
Totally agree!

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2020, 11:11:10 PM »
Galloway is stunning, and Hidden Creek is also fantastic.  But if you are in Montclair you have a dozen terrific options within a 15-minute drive so stay local and enjoy!

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2020, 02:43:56 AM »
Keith,
My recommendation would be to play all those local ones and when time permits play Galloway and Hidden Creek as well 😊.  The more top courses you can experience the more you will appreciate just how good golf course design can get. 

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2020, 11:07:11 AM »
Another back story is that the developer hired Dick Smith, a former President of the PGA, as Director of Golf with hopes of getting the PGA Championship for the club. For whatever reasons, that didn't happen.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2020, 11:53:32 AM »
When I saw your name Steve I immediately thought it had been sold!!! 
AKA Mayday

Will Spivey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »
Fazio proclaimed it would be one his best courses, ever. 


I'm pretty sure he says this for every course he builds...it's probably a "marketing requirement."

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2020, 12:20:34 PM »
YES. You will not be dissapointed making the two hour drive. Galloway is a really good golf course, though can certainly be very challenging. I always have said that I'd prefer to be a member at Hidden Creek, but for a one time play I'd probably choose Galloway.


The fairways are wide but the course gets more challenging closer to the greens and on those wonderful surfaces. It's a very good modern golf course.



You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2020, 12:33:31 PM »
 8)


So nice to see a lot of opinions regarding Galloway. There can be no doubt that if you like playing golf there will be some interesting and challenging shots for you to hit. Joe Bausch as always has given us a nice visual of the holes.


Some tidbits regarding the golf course. A gentleman named Vernon Hill was and remains the guiding face of Galloway. He is an extremely successful developer of banks (Commerce Bank Corp) and shopping centers who started out in retail real estate sales. Quite an entrepeneur.


Galloway's first two holes get you right into the nitty gritty without either being particularly long. #1 is a beautiful short par four that immediately turns you towards the bay and the water. One of the most interesting starting holes I've ever played. Two is a wicked short par three that requires an almost perfect short iron that often has to be flighted just right to hold the green. I've hit what appears to be a decent shot that inevitably ends up spinning into a collection area on the left that's quite nasty. Perhaps it's the double bogies that result from being there that helped foster my continuing disdain for them.


The third isn't the GN's best hole but they've fixed what used to be a brutal green in the last five years. Now it's a decent short par four. The rest of the front nine is fun with interesting greens that require local knowledge to get it in the right spots. As stated there are a lot of holes that allows for birdies for the better player, particularly the five pars. It rewards good iron shots more than most courses we often play. The greens are quite difficult to read and require some thought as to position before you arrive. Probably why I like it so much in that the short game is so much better than my driving and it really requires some precision. My esteemed friend Mandel of course picks up on this!


Lots of interesting angles on the back nine and some tough par fours. Again where you miss it is critical to scoring so fun for all of us "tour caddies" and architectural mavens. Would love to see an expansion of the last green (18)  to take away a little of the danger of trunk slamming .


Practice facility is spectacular and conditioning is always top notch.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 12:41:07 PM by archie_struthers »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2020, 08:31:00 AM »
Pretty well agree on all of the above.


When I played for Temple University's golf team in the mid-late 90's Galloway was extremely generous to us. I had the opportunity to play a couple dozen rounds there and went back in 2018 for a tournament and still love it. Yes, it's quite difficult but you don't lose a lot of golf balls.


A nice day in November may well beat any of the days in the summer because of the green heads.

Michael Pelliccione

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2020, 12:38:25 PM »
Its a two hour drive to play one of the better Fazio golf courses...  Without a doubt its worth the effort!   If you don't go you'll ask yourself why didn't I make the effort...   

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Galloway National
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2020, 03:22:27 PM »
Some here will beg to differ but some might argue Galloway is the second best golf course in NJ.  As much as I love Somerset Hills and Plainfield (they are both sold 8's), Galloway is one of the best modern golf courses in the U.S. (except in the summer when it is boarderline unplayable because of the bugs)  ;D   

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