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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
What's up with all these golfers
« on: September 06, 2020, 10:03:47 AM »
 ???


Usually you could slide over to the club around 5 or 6 pm and it was pretty quiet, maybe some  ardent range rats , a father walking a few holes withe kids 8)  etc. etc.  But not now, tee times til dark it seems. Is this strictly covid induced or has golf been re-discovered?

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2020, 10:35:49 AM »
In my opinion, it’s 100% covid related. Lots of people either out of work or working from home since March. The big question is whether lifestyles have changed for good, even after a vaccine is rolled out. I know many businesses will see a permanent shift toward working from home, which is why the future of commercial real estate is in serious trouble. So it’s possible that while it took a pandemic for people to finally have time for golf, they’ve rediscovered a passion and will continue to keep playing going forward. Which would be great for the golf industry, not so great for those of us who got used to grabbing last-second tee times.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2020, 10:37:35 AM »
The former I think.  Which shows that the response to the pandemic has affected classes of people very differently.  The finances of those who work for the government and firms which have enough economic activity to keep employees on the payroll not only have more disposable income, but also time by "working from home".


People like my barber who depends on providing services but has been shut-down for periods of time and further impacted by his customers' change in how they work (e.g. mostly empty office buildings around his shop), are not playing much golf.  Just in his immediate area, there are half dozen restaurants which remain closed, four at least that he knows will not re-open.


BTW, due to Covid protocols and riding carts limited to a single player, our head pro relaxed the policy on pull carts, allowing the members to use their own.  For a while he saw a moderate jump in rounds walked.  This has pretty much fizzled out and during the weekends, it is not unusual for tee times to be delayed a half an hour to turn carts from the morning wave around.  Old habits do seem to die hard.   

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2020, 10:58:40 AM »
???


Usually you could slide over to the club around 5 or 6 pm and it was pretty quiet, maybe some  ardent range rats , a father walking a few holes withe kids 8)  etc. etc.  But not now, tee times til dark it seems. Is this strictly covid induced or has golf been re-discovered?


Pandemic initially followed by people rediscovering golf, and getting hooked.
Certainly money and time better spent than gaming in a casino or drinking sitting in a bar.(with apologies and condolences to those who own bars and restaurants)
Great for golf industry in many areas(Hawaii and other resort areas/countries affected by 14 day quarantines rules being a notable exception)...... not so great for avid golfers who have been enjoying an over supply for many , many years.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 11:14:05 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2020, 10:59:35 AM »
Dear push cart mafia,


It’s hot as hell. Hotter than normal.


Eat me,


Cartballer

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2020, 11:14:02 AM »


Usually you could slide over to the club around 5 or 6 pm and it was pretty quiet, maybe some  ardent range rats , a father walking a few holes withe kids 8)  etc. etc.  But not now, tee times til dark it seems. Is this strictly covid induced or has golf been re-discovered?


Crystal Downs was the busiest I have ever seen it on Friday evening.  I teed off at 5:40 pm and there were people all over the course ahead of me . . . singles, families, you name it.


Amazingly, play moved along swiftly, and the families happily let the other single and me play through.  I thought I would only get in nine holes, but I made the turn in 1:15 and managed to finish the 18th as the sun set over the clubhouse.


Will it last?  Honestly, I don't think the answer to that question is going to have much to do with golf.  But already two people here have complained about the newbies taking up their easy tee times, which is disturbing.  American golf still has PLENTY of excess capacity.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2020, 12:31:19 PM »
Tom,
Was not a complaint(especially being in the industry)from me
merely an anecdotal observation and a reversal from a long time trend that many avid golfers have benefited greatly from n both price and convenience.
Consumers of any product benefit when there is an over supply of something, they suffer (relatively)-when demand begins to exceed supply, as it has in here in eastern Long island since March.


In some areas, both the supply has shrunk and the demand has gone up.


Even private club members have been inconvenienced(and then complained) by heavy crowding at many, many golf courses where tee times were NEVER before required-who now find their weekday tee sheets full from 7 am-6 pm.


Excess capacity multiple hours away doesn't help a golfer with no tee time, or someone hoping to play a quick 18 after work.


I surprised you find someone observing that disturbing.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 12:51:01 PM »
Tom,
Was not a complaint(especially being in the industry)from me
merely an anecdotal observation and a reversal from a long time trend that many avid golfers have benefited greatly from n both price and convenience.
Consumers of any product benefit when there is an over supply of something, they suffer (relatively)-when demand begins to exceed supply, as it has in here in eastern Long island since March.


In some areas, both the supply has shrunk and the demand has gone up.


Even private club members have been inconvenienced(and then complained) by heavy crowding at many, many golf courses where tee times were NEVER before required-who now find their weekday tee sheets full from 7 am-6 pm.


Excess capacity multiple hours away doesn't help a golfer with no tee time, or someone hoping to play a quick 18 after work.





Jeff:


You live in an unusual neighborhood.  Zoning is tight, the summer population has boomed, and there aren't any struggling golf clubs.  I guess there are a few other summer places in America which would fit that description, but not many.


Where I live, many courses have been shuttered in the race to the bottom on price -- which is a problem in many places, save the Hamptons.  Other courses have suffered years of deferred maintenance because they can't afford to address their problems, which will surely affect them down the line.


Private clubs can usually address their own problems by tightening the guest policy as necessary.  Very few private clubs in America have too many members, unless they are all going to play 3x per week.  If you're saying the guy who plays 5x per week is going to be affected, that's undoubtedly true, but he should have some room for the fellow members who have been subsidizing his golf all this time.


And, of course, the Hamptons may be immune to the factors that will likely make this problem go away everywhere else in the next couple of years, if economic insecurity grabs the ankles of the guy on the next rung of the ladder.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 01:07:31 PM »
In South Carolina the golf courses are filled to capacity nearly every day.


I talked with a GM of a popular semi-private course this week who gave me this explanation:  Women who usually play once or twice per week are now playing two-three times. Guys who usually play two or three times are now playing three-four (or five) times. And, a lot of folks who don't usually play that much (including a younger crowd) are coming out on the weekends because there is nothing much else to do besides walking, hiking and biking.


They are expecting the number to fall back when recreation options return. Everyone is hoping that this reintroduction to golf for the younger players will stick after the COVID restrictions are lifted. Fingers crossed on that.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2020, 01:50:16 PM »
I played Olde Kinderhook for the first time a few weeks ago. What used to be a very private club is now allowing public play. I was told they are down to 105 members. The fairways and bunkers are in incredibly rough shape. I was told they don’t even have the equipment to aerate. They’ve focused all their maintenance budget on the greens, which were very nice. So the renewed interest in golf during covid hasn’t benefitted everyone. Move that course to where I live north of Boston and every tee time would be booked.

Peter Pallotta

Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 02:12:26 PM »
Yes, I used to subsist on 9 hole rounds right at dinner time (5-6 pm), especially on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays: just walk on as a single and usually play on my own -- as most others were preparing/going out to dinner or resting up before Monday's commute or planning to go see a movie. But with few now wanting to eat in the restaurants and the commute unnecessary and film production basically shut down, the courses are packed. We snack all day so aren't hungry at dinner time, and how many old episodes of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee can you watch before even Jerry Seinfeld gets stale?

Golf's new marketing slogan: 'Come out and play -- it's more fun than a Seinfeld re-run'.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2020, 02:47:47 PM »


Usually you could slide over to the club around 5 or 6 pm and it was pretty quiet, maybe some  ardent range rats , a father walking a few holes withe kids 8)  etc. etc.  But not now, tee times til dark it seems. Is this strictly covid induced or has golf been re-discovered?


Crystal Downs was the busiest I have ever seen it on Friday evening.  I teed off at 5:40 pm and there were people all over the course ahead of me . . . singles, families, you name it.


Amazingly, play moved along swiftly, and the families happily let the other single and me play through.  I thought I would only get in nine holes, but I made the turn in 1:15 and managed to finish the 18th as the sun set over the clubhouse.


Will it last?  Honestly, I don't think the answer to that question is going to have much to do with golf.  But already two people here have complained about the newbies taking up their easy tee times, which is disturbing.  American golf still has PLENTY of excess capacity.


What has been most surprising to me has been the good pace of play. Our course has been jammed yet play seems to be moving more quickly than before the pandemic. I usually walk off if it is going to be more than a four hour round (thankfully the 14th green is a short walk in). That has happened only once this year. We played peak time yesterday in 3:45, and it would have been faster but for an inexplicable back up on 18 tee. I have no explanation but wonder if people are so glad to be outside that there are less folks grinding to win $2 Nassaus.


Ira

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2020, 04:33:30 PM »
In many parts of the U.K. working from home is making a massive difference, golfers aren’t spending 3 hours a day commuting so guys are starting earlier and get get out in the golf course easier. Golf took a hit during Covid but has come out of it flying high.
Cave Nil Vino

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2020, 04:40:25 PM »
It took a damn good day to do three real hours of work on any given day in the office. I still remember asking a coworker who do we charge for all these breaks. Uh, the government of course.

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2020, 07:15:53 PM »
Dear push cart mafia,


It’s hot as hell. Hotter than normal.


Eat me,


Cartballer


I’m both.  If it’s hot and humid and miserable I’m usually riding.  Mid June to mid September is more riding than walking.  Late September until when it starts to cool down, I will try to walk if at all possible.  With my pushcart of course.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 07:50:39 PM by John Emerson »
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2020, 08:22:57 PM »
 8)


Kavanaugh don't be a wimp, sling it on those strong shoulders this winter!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2020, 08:46:01 PM »
I’ll walk this winter but I’m in Florida now. Went for a morning cigar and Bloody Mary this morning at the club. Was going full Pavarotti with a white dinner napkin I grabbed from the dining room. Never got off the veranda.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2020, 09:02:29 PM »
 8)


now we're talking JAKA !

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2020, 12:24:38 PM »
I was thinking that this year proves that golf's relative decline has been more to do with time pressure than cost.  When people have time on their hands and their boss isn't watching them, they are playing a lot of golf. 

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2020, 01:26:51 PM »
I believe it is Covid-induced in the short term but it may help golf longer term.  My club has had a below desired level of membership for the last few years.  This year we have a ton of people on trial memberships, many of them are enjoying the club and are likely to sign up for full memberships.  That should benefit clubs for the longer term.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2020, 01:31:54 PM »
There is an argument to be made by long term loyal members who are not given priority over "trial members". I wouldn't put much hope in people who sip from an udder in a drought buying the cow when it rains.

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2020, 01:49:51 PM »
Very true that there are 2 very different economies during this pandemic.

Probably some more golf from those in financial/IT/ sales jobs, shifting to more work at home.  Some are from those in midst of having to make drastic career shifts, but have enough savings & other options to still have some recreational spending options.


Also, very few activities going on for the kids until the end of this summer.  Very few practices, games, shows, camps, etc. to take kids to and to watch.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 04:48:29 PM by Bill Shamleffer »
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2020, 02:03:24 PM »
There is an argument to be made by long term loyal members who are not given priority over "trial members". I wouldn't put much hope in people who sip from an udder in a drought buying the cow when it rains.


??? I guess you have to be a farmer to understand that metaphor.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2020, 03:20:18 PM »
There is an argument to be made by long term loyal members who are not given priority over "trial members". I wouldn't put much hope in people who sip from an udder in a drought buying the cow when it rains.

 ??? I guess you have to be a farmer to understand that metaphor.

Tommy,

That's the corollary to what my Mother-in-Law cautioned my wife about boys as she approached adult hood and dating:

"Why buy the cow if they can get the milk for free"

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's up with all these golfers
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2020, 03:30:06 PM »
P.S  Here in Utah, its not just golf courses feeling the rush.  This summer,  Utah set a new record and absolutely obliterated the old one...number of fires started in the fire season, and we still have two months left.  With so many terrific outdoor activities here and an abundance of open land, everyone and their brother are out enjoying it, but as usual not being entirely responsible about it...