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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« on: July 27, 2020, 11:17:18 AM »
Mine was on the 16th hole at Pacific Dunes. The ball finished right on top of a hump in the middle of the fairway. Since the fairway tilts down to the right, I was addressing the ball at about waist height with no clue about how to hit an approach from that stance. The only other time I was left with such a stance was on the lip of a pot bunker at Royal North Devon. There I putted right handed with the back of my 4 iron just missing the birdie.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 02:14:44 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 12:58:47 PM »
Garland,


I am not sure what you describe is negative or at least not to all. To me it is those sorts of lies that make the game interesting and challenging. Back in the day when fairways at TOC were cut a 3/4" the ball often came to rest on slope giving the course its main challenge and character. Nowadays the fairways are shaved so the ball rarely comes to rest on anything other than a flat one and TOC is but a shadow of the course it once was.




Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 01:44:01 PM »
Garland,


I am not sure what you describe is negative or at least not to all. To me it is those sorts of lies that make the game interesting and challenging. Back in the day when fairways at TOC were cut a 3/4" the ball often came to rest on slope giving the course its main challenge and character. Nowadays the fairways are shaved so the ball rarely comes to rest on anything other than a flat one and TOC is but a shadow of the course it once was.

Perhaps I should have said most difficult lie. Or impossible lie. I certainly didn't mean to indicate anything negative about the golf hole. After all, I nominated it for the modern eclectic.

You're the PGA pro. How do you hit an approach shot with the ball lying at a level somewhere between your elbows and wrists?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 01:45:26 PM »
Garland,


The secret is to line the ball up with the heal of the club.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 01:46:40 PM »
Not sure about fairway lies but I suspect that more than a few juicy pork-pies may have been told at golf club AGM’s over the years (allegedly!).
 :)
Atb

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 02:49:38 PM »
Garland,


I am not sure what you describe is negative or at least not to all. To me it is those sorts of lies that make the game interesting and challenging. Back in the day when fairways at TOC were cut a 3/4" the ball often came to rest on slope giving the course its main challenge and character. Nowadays the fairways are shaved so the ball rarely comes to rest on anything other than a flat one and TOC is but a shadow of the course it once was.

Perhaps I should have said most difficult lie. Or impossible lie. I certainly didn't mean to indicate anything negative about the golf hole. After all, I nominated it for the modern eclectic.

You're the PGA pro. How do you hit an approach shot with the ball lying at a level somewhere between your elbows and wrists?


Garland,


you learn to hit such shots through practice. Most bat & ball sports involve the ball moving when it is struck yet most people manage it. In golf the ball is staying in the same place and so infinitely easier to learn to strike yet most people over the age of 15 don't try to learn it.


As Hogan said 'its in the dirt'


Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 06:31:19 PM »
I can't say that I've ever had anything worse than just being in a 45 degree angle divot.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 06:38:03 PM »
Mine was on the 16th hole at Pacific Dunes. The ball finished right on top of a hump in the middle of the fairway. Since the fairway tilts down to the right, I was addressing the ball at about waist height with no clue about how to hit an approach from that stance. The only other time I was left with such a stance was on the lip of a pot bunker at Royal North Devon. There I putted right handed with the back of my 4 iron just missing the birdie.


Growing up on hillside kikuyu courses it wasn't necessary to find a hump to get one of these lies! Aim right (or in your case left) and keep turning so you don't snap hook it to infinity!


How about adjacent to a bunker to the point where you can't sole the club properly? We encourage fairway cuts close to the lip all the time on here, but that sometimes means horrible stances.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 07:19:08 PM »
5 feet from the fence on NB13. Or maybe 3 feet from the fence on NB3.


Ira

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2020, 07:38:28 PM »
I walk faster than nearly all my playing partners.


Rarely have I had a bad lie.


 ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2020, 09:47:19 PM »
Match play. Opponent is standing by a ball about 10 yards ahead and a bit left.  You take a nice swing and the opponent say's
"my hole, you hit the wrong ball".    He wasn't standing by his ball, he was standing by yours.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2020, 11:37:25 PM »
Maybe not the worst ever, but I once had my ball roll into a pre-existing pitch mark in fairway. So imagine an embedded ball, except because it wasn't my own pitch mark, I didn't get relief.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2020, 11:50:24 PM »
Garland,


I am not sure what you describe is negative or at least not to all. To me it is those sorts of lies that make the game interesting and challenging. Back in the day when fairways at TOC were cut a 3/4" the ball often came to rest on slope giving the course its main challenge and character. Nowadays the fairways are shaved so the ball rarely comes to rest on anything other than a flat one and TOC is but a shadow of the course it once was.


This saddens me.
Some modern courses the grass is so short that you can't get a groove on the ball without taking a divot-a few feet off the green-and you get lots of divots becausue balls collect due to grass speed and gravity.
The ball rarely stays on a meaningful sidehill lie.often settling only when catching the eventual friction of rough(a "first cut" of course)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2020, 04:07:13 AM »
There's a Pro called Patrick someone-or-other who I've occasionally seen on TV. He never seems to have a bad lie. Others of his ilk to maybe?
atb



Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 04:27:38 AM »
The worst lies I have had are underground. I haven't had this for a while, but recall it happening at Pennard and Tenby. There is a simple solution  8)

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 08:31:40 AM »
I am not sure what you describe is negative or at least not to all. To me it is those sorts of lies that make the game interesting and challenging. Back in the day when fairways at TOC were cut a 3/4" the ball often came to rest on slope giving the course its main challenge and character. Nowadays the fairways are shaved so the ball rarely comes to rest on anything other than a flat one and TOC is but a shadow of the course it once was.
Indeed. What's the point in a bumpy fairway if you don't get an awkward lie from time to time?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2020, 02:52:55 PM »
One that wasn't that difficult but the situation made me perceive it to be difficult was in my singles match against Ben Stephens at Buda at St. Enodoc. I had won 17 to go one up while getting a stroke on 18. All I had to do was keep within one stroke on 18 to win the match. I hit my drive right up the middle of the fairway into a two or three club wind. Ben stepped up and did the same (clearly the straightest tee shot he had hit all day) but well past my drive. When I got to my ball it was in a level lie, but right behind a big dune hump. Needing to cover significant distance on the second since I remember the hole to be 430 or perhaps more, I decided 6 iron would safely get up quick and clear it. I subconsciously tried to help it up, and of course chunked it up the fairway a short distance. Ben hit his second onto the green,  and I hit into a bunker. He two putted for par to halve the match, keep the competition all even, and retain the cup.

I asked, and Ben was the only person to par 18 that day.

During the afternoon social round I took a look at the lie that may have lost the cup. It looked to be behind an insignificant hump I could have cleared with a fairway wood. 😪
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 06:34:58 PM »
Garland I have hit a hump in front on multiple occasions when trying to hit a knockdown.
usually just ramps it upward, but can carom it offline as well.
Much easier if on the hump-not just behind, or worse yet on a downslope into an upslope.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Andrew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2020, 06:55:43 PM »
St. George's in Toronto has some outrageous lies if you don't hit it good. Specifically, holes 2, 4, 5, 10, 12, 14 can get really dicey

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2020, 08:43:10 PM »
The current 9th hole (formerly No. 18) on my old home course in college at EKU, Arlington (now referred to the University Club at Arlington.

The hole plays as a shorter par-5 for everyday play at 474 yards. Players may drive over a fairly deep, but maintained gully to a flat area in the fairway. However, many, particularly the longer hitters, attempt to drive through the flat where the fairway continues down a very steep hill into a second gully, where there is a small flat area, presenting a much shorter approach into the green.

When I was in college 10-14 years ago, only the very long hitters could consistently reach the flat in the second gully (it's ~320 yards from the tips, which was a pretty big knock back then, even with the assist of the big slope). I do not hit the ball very far at all and my drives would rarely even challenge the hill. However, there were days where the tees may have been up and the wind may have been helping and I hit it just so where I would tumble over the edge...but I would never reach the bottom. Arlington has Zoysia fairways and when I played there, they kept them a little longer, so the ball wouldn't roll very far, so I would occasionally get hung up on the side of that hill.

Playing an approach from that spot was very difficult. You're hitting a club with little loft (in my case a wood) from a very steep downhill lie, to a green situated another huge hill and placed to the right...oh and there was a front bunker too. I have no idea why I would have even attempted a shot like that, but I did a few times. The more prudent play is to lay-up, but even then, you have a mid-iron off with a terrible stance, just with a slightly less awkward target.

The best way to play the hole, I discovered when I passed my PGA Playing Ability Test: push-slice the drive off a tree into the ESA (now O.B.), hybrid-lay-up over the trees back into the fairway and almost hole the third shot.  ;D ;D ;D

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2020, 10:38:28 PM »
A very wet cloudy day at Spyglass years ago. A few of the downhill drives on back nine landed in fairway never to be seen again. Couldn't find the entry points it was so soggy.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2020, 10:55:11 PM »
A very wet cloudy day at Spyglass years ago. A few of the downhill drives on back nine landed in fairway never to be seen again. Couldn't find the entry points it was so soggy.

I have had people tell me that Eastmoreland (Egan) in Portland regularly suffers that phenomena in the wet season. i have only played the course in August and have been shocked at how wet the back nine is even then.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2020, 11:48:48 AM »
Most difficult lie - I was invited to play a local private club course I had never seen before about 20 years ago. Not my straightest of driving days.  Hit a bit of a fade that hit the edge fairway, bounced straight right and settled waist high into a red cedar tree lining the right edge of the primary.


A four iron (not hybrid) is sharp enough to pierce the foliage and propel the ball forward and back into the fairway.




Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most difficult lie you have ever had in a fairway
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 01:04:16 PM »
In America where the ball is at least over an inch above the ground and very soft watered fairways. Not great for someone who is used to hard and tight fairways and I could not get the club out of the turf with a 60 deg wedge after follow through at Doral and the ball did not go that far  ;D