"Carts Are Good For Golf"

[David Ober]

Enjoying the cart experience doesn’t make you a bad person.

Thank you, John ... <sniffle>

[Mark Pritchett]

I like trees, but I also like wood.

[David Ober]

There is no big G golf. Only golf. There are big A Arseholes who want something to nitpick about. If you want to exercise go run a mile or play tennis or full court basketball.

Amen. If that means some of you lose respect for players like me, so be it. If a cart's available, I'm taking it. If it's not, I'll walk -- though I will tire on the back and lose 2 - 4 strokes.


I love golf. Period.

[William_G]

sadly

[Bill Seitz]

Some random thoughts that I"m having a hard time tying together:


*I'd have a lot more respect for courses with mandatory cart policies that said "we're doing it because we want more money."  Pace of play, or "the course isn't walkable" excuses are bullshit.


*I both walk and ride, but more the former than the latter.  But I'm also more of a "go with the flow" type, so if my group wants to ride, I'm not going to put up a big fuss about it. And there are plenty of time I'm not disappointed when they choose to ride.  I'm not proud of it.  Also, after walking 36, its nice to have carts around to go back out have some late afternoon fun.


*I played in a group that used to walk Cog #4 all the time, even though carts were included in the very high fee. 


*Are there any great courses that have been designed almost specifically for cart-ball?  I'm trying to think of courses that wouldn't have been built but for the existence of golf carts.  The courses at whatever they're now calling Industry Hills strike me as those type of courses, but A) they're walkable (we played high school events there), and B) They aren't any good.  I suppose an exception can be made for courses where you may need to be ferried to the first tee or from the last tee.  I know plenty of people that walk Greywalls, but it's hike to get to the first tee from the clubhouse.


*For me, in terms of effort expended, walking with a caddie is much close to riding than it is to dragging.  I don't find walking with a caddie to be particularly taxing, but dragging is a completely different story. Not saying that from a calories burned perspective, just from a way I feel perspective.  That said, I've also caddied for someone in a 36 hole event, and was more tired after that than I've been after playing and dragging for 36.  Almost like the physical fatigue was worse because there was no mental fatigue to balance it out.


*Taking the approach that walking is the only way to really enjoy golf strikes me a "no true Scotsmen" position.  There are lots of ways to enjoy golf.  I enjoy bring first out, walking the course in two and a half hours, and having no one around.  I also enjoy loading a 12 pack in a cooler with some buddies and heading out to mess around a bit.


*For some of the reasons discussed above, I don't think I'd like it if my club was walking only.  And there are some members that wouldn't be there if that was the case, which would be a shame.  I would like to see less riding, and too many carts could have the potential to have a really negative impact on our turf, but so far I haven't noticed that.


*The best time I've ever had on a golf course was one of the last rounds I played with my dad at the par 3 course in Arcadia, CA where he taught me the game.  He had to take a cart.  I would have missed that experience otherwise.

[Jeff Schley]

There is no big G golf. Only golf. There are big A Arseholes who want something to nitpick about. If you want to exercise go run a mile or play tennis or full court basketball.

Amen. If that means some of you lose respect for players like me, so be it. If a cart's available, I'm taking it. If it's not, I'll walk -- though I will tire on the back and lose 2 - 4 strokes.


I love golf. Period.

If this is a petition, where do I sign?

[Don Mahaffey]

Carts aren’t the no brainer revenue source they are made out to be by the industry
Expense side

1) Cart lease expense
2) storage
3) Electrical
4) labor to set up, clean, and store
5) Additional hardscape needed in staging area and for circulation around golf shop area
6) Cart path
7) traffic damage to golf course


I have no doubt that busy courses with high % of riders makes money overtime, but the payback takes years

[John Kavanaugh]

Each of the courses where I am a member would close if walking was mandatory. You simply can not argue over revenue without any players.


Golf is going to have to survive off the backs of baby boomers for as long as it can hold on.

[John Crowley]

The whole revenue question makes no sense whatsoever.

So, if it's $40 to play and $20 to share a cart, just charge $50 to walk or ride.   Essentially, carts are free and just like in society the able-bodied help to subsidize those who are not.

Now explain to me mandatory carts that are the rule at so many courses?

This.


The whole premise of carts being essential is bull**** American pricing and marketing.



+1!

[John Kavanaugh]

Could we at least add the serious cash revenue generated from bar sales to cart ballers?

[John Kavanaugh]

Could Sand Hills survive without carts?

[Don Mahaffey]

Each of the courses where I am a member would close if walking was mandatory. You simply can not argue over revenue without any players.

JK, that is a much more accurate argument than talking about the $$$ earned from cart revenues. The loss of players who associate golf with riding would be the hit at most courses.

[John Kavanaugh]

No one debates if tennis shoes are good for basketball.

[Jason Thurman]

This is an excerpt from a golf.com article on how many calories you burn by walking and playing, walking and carrying, or riding, when it got to the part about riding.  Posted without comment:




First, carts are good for golf, as NPR reports here, because they create added revenue for courses themselves: They enable golf facilities “to get more people on the course and get them around the course faster,” Steve Mona, CEO of the World Golf Foundation.

Posted without comment. Also posted without including the subsequent paragraph:


"Second, carts allow the game to remain more inclusive to many elderly golfers who may enjoy golf but don’t possess the ability to walk 18 undulating holes."

Also, Jason, if we're going to talk about the tone of the whole part about golf carts, maybe you should have quoted the lead-in just BEFORE points 1 and 2, above, which reads:




Of course, while lots of golf snobs insist on walking only, doing so obscures three important factors:

I'm pretty sure the term "golf snob" in the quoted sentence is just code for "guys who post on Golf Club Atlas and Woke Golf Twitter." I can't tell if the author is an intelligent guy or not from the article, but if he is, he might have even anticipated getting a derogatory repost here. A thread titled "'Carts Are Good For Golf'" with a linked article is classic GCA red meat.


It's a mostly meaningless article and I'm not here to defend it. [size=78%]My stance is pretty simple here:[/size]


* I prefer to walk, and do whenever I can. I'm thankful to be a member of a club where a majority of our rounds are played on foot and where there's a push cart or power caddie in almost every group most days.


* I'm learning to let go of my snobbish "cartball is lazy" mindset. Like, when the first two days of my three-day club championship are played in 90+ degree heat, I'm accepting that it's smart for me to ride.


* It's also true that sometimes cartball is lazy. I wish the culture of golf worldwide still presumed walking rather than taking a cart, but it doesn't and I don't see that changing.


* Some of the rounds I'm most grateful to have played would not have happened without a cart that enabled a playing partner or two to join. One of the great things about this game is that it can accommodate people that other games can't, and I'm glad for the role carts play in that.


* I suspect carts really are a meaningful revenue and profit center although I, like others, would like to see some real data. At the very least, Kavanaugh's point that it's hard to generate revenue without players resonates. And I definitely spend more at the bar when riding, on average.

[Mike Hendren]

As much as I enjoy this website, it has a blind spot as to how much of the golf in this country is played.   I drove 3 hours each way yesterday to return to West Tennessee and play the modest course where I learned the game.  I also brought back four boxes of tomatoes but that's another story.  The 3100 yards course is in a town of 8400 in a county that has reported between 10% and 15% unemployment over the past several years.  Dues are $85/month and there are approximately 140 members.  You walk down to the barn and grab a cart, then return it and plug it in there after the round. 

The heat index was 107 yesterday - not an outlier this time of year.  I'm guessing 75% of the membership is retired and over the age of 70.   There were probably 7 groups on the course.  I played solo in about 2.5 hours.   The foursomes behind me kept pace. 

Without carts, you might as well shut the place down in the summer. 

One of the members mows the fairways and greens in lieu of paying dues and my junior English teacher manages the clubhouse - receiving no compensation at her request.

There were two tables of stylish older ladies playing canasta with their masks on, most were likely in their 80's.  They were there when I arrived and there when I left.  I knew 2 of the 8.

I pity those of you who never had the experience of growing up at such a club, in this case a club that turned 50 this year and would have died out long ago, like many others in the adjacent counties, if not for the golf cart.

I'm working on a course and club profile that hopefully Ran will publish.

Mike

[John Kavanaugh]

Not to mention the next GCA outing where everyone will play slowly in carts.

[Mark Pearce]

Agreeing with Jason--I was always one who disparaged golf carts and those who used them.  I still don't like what they do to golf course turf.  But when I passed 75 years-of-age, and had a back injury to boot, I realized that using a cart was my only way to continue playing the game I love and have played my whole life.  Amazing how Father Time changes your perspective on things.

My 88 year old father in law still plays 36 hole days reasonably regularly and plays golf two or three times a week.  He wouldn't dream of riding a cart and wouldn't be able to play without an electric trolley.  Many clubs in the UK allow carts only for those requiring them for medical reasons, which allows those with a condition like yours to benefit from carts but stops them being used by people fit enough to walk.

[Mark Pearce]

Amen. If that means some of you lose respect for players like me, so be it. If a cart's available, I'm taking it. If it's not, I'll walk -- though I will tire on the back and lose 2 - 4 strokes.

The Northumberland has two carts in its "fleet".  In competitions, one of the better players in the club, who is significantly overweight (read morbidly obese) uses one of those carts.  It astonishes me that the other scratch and low handicap players at the club don't object strongly to the undoubted and entirely unfair advantage riding in a cart gives him.

[Jeff Schley]

Interesting is the strenuous activity that golf is approx. calorie burn, which depends on your weight/elevations and weather.

• Walk 18 holes  and carry - 1400 to 1800
• Walk 18 holes and push cart - 1200 to 1600
• Walk 18 holes with caddie - 1000-1400
• Ride 18 holes in a devil's chariot - 700 to 1100

In KSA I don't even play June-Sept as it is 110 degrees or more everyday. Even under the lights it is over 105 usually at night. Got heat exhaustion 3 years ago which totally freaked me out after having to go to the ER.
Edit:formatting

[John Kavanaugh]

Amen. If that means some of you lose respect for players like me, so be it. If a cart's available, I'm taking it. If it's not, I'll walk -- though I will tire on the back and lose 2 - 4 strokes.

The Northumberland has two carts in its "fleet".  In competitions, one of the better players in the club, who is significantly overweight (read morbidly obese) uses one of those carts.  It astonishes me that the other scratch and low handicap players at the club don't object strongly to the undoubted and entirely unfair advantage riding in a cart gives him.

Just more evidence why the best players at every club are the cool kids.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I will once again advocate for my private club cart pricing formula.

Everyone pays $100.00 less their age.

75 years old = $25.00
18 years old = $82.00

There would be a flat rate for those with medical issues.

Love that! I could even see going to 75 less age.


Does this really exist or is this how you will price it when you have your own club.

[John Kavanaugh]

The thing I like most about carts is that they don’t judge you or talk behind your back.

[Kalen Braley]

It is interesting that for an industry already struggling with a slow decline for the last 10-20 years... that many would prefer to bite the hand that feeds them.  Get rid of golf carts and whats the over/under on the % of courses in America that would close within a few years?  75%?  It would certainly kill almost everything in Utah with 3+ months of summer, where almost no one walks in the heat.

P.S.  My hats off to Mike K thou who has figured out how to both kill carts and charge a fortune at the same time...

[Bernie Bell]

Amen. If that means some of you lose respect for players like me, so be it. If a cart's available, I'm taking it. If it's not, I'll walk -- though I will tire on the back and lose 2 - 4 strokes.

The Northumberland has two carts in its "fleet".  In competitions, one of the better players in the club, who is significantly overweight (read morbidly obese) uses one of those carts.  It astonishes me that the other scratch and low handicap players at the club don't object strongly to the undoubted and entirely unfair advantage riding in a cart gives him.

I'm envious of the climate in Newcastle.  Here in Washington, we're on our way to 30 consecutive days above 90F/32C.  Often well above and with oppressive humidity.  We have more than two carts in the fleet, and need them.  I walk as much as anyone I know, but at a certain heat index and a certain age, it's not healthy.

[Ben Sims]

No one debates if tennis shoes are good for basketball.

That’s true, but my guess is more than one middle-aged baller is still playing because of the support or stability that the modern shoe provides vs PF Flyers.


No one debates whether ski lifts are good for skiing either. But you can bet that Vail or Alterra wants to toss a high-speed quad or six chair wherever they can afford to.


I guess what I’m saying is that the golf cart is an enabler. The unfortunate part is that the golf industry looks at it as a revenue center. I think Bandon is a great example of how the cart can be an enabler for players that need it without being looked upon as a revenue generator.