"Carts Are Good For Golf"

[Garland Bayley]

The whole revenue question makes no sense whatsoever.

So, if it's $40 to play and $20 to share a cart, just charge $50 to walk or ride.   Essentially, carts are free and just like in society the able-bodied help to subsidize those who are not.

Now explain to me mandatory carts that are the rule at so many courses?

Because guys who walk and carry have been unfairly pegged as cheap skates who aren't going to spend a penny above what is mandated.

In my case, it is not unfairly. I am a cheapskate! I avoid courses that make me subsidize cartballers. If you stop trying to make golf into a Veblen good, maybe you will get more participation.

[Peter Flory]

I'm always amazed at how heavy the average cart riding players' bags are.  If I had to walk and carry with their bags I wouldn't like it either. 

[Pete_Pittock]

    I need a cart to play golf.  I am now 75, and degenerative conditions have overtaken. The last time I walked a course was in 2013 at Erin Hills, with a caddie. Dick Daley can attest to my pains two days later. I still play, probably 40-50 times a year and like to travel for different courses. I may play Forest Dunes and Sand Valley this year, but have scratched any interest in the Whistling Straits complex because there are no carts on the big course (unless they don't advertise ADA carts).


   Carts are the only way for me to continue my passion. So carts are good for golf for me.  As far as are carts good for golf, that is a strictly a business decision.  If a course can be profitable walking only, good for them. If a course needs cart revenue, good for them. If a developer wants to build a course with grass and ground conditions making cart usage unfeasible or impossible, good for them. As far as causing damage, that is a function of being a good, attentive driver, it is not different than how attentive you are driving on the streets.I think the overall question, is a question without a correct answer, but is just a matter of opinion.

   Without carts be available I would not have been able to enjoy exhilarating Sagebrush, its culture and its people for three wonderful years.  I no longer travel to play the Bandon resort, even though one course is my all time favorite, but i hope that an ADA cart is available for the Sheep Ranch


 

[Carl Rogers]

At the course I play, Riverfront, the cart is an essential element of the business model because (prior to COVID-19) the course was all about the  corporate-organizational outing along with the food and drink before, during and after the round.  A large segment of this demographic is the once every 3 month golfer.  They're not about to walk and carry or even use a push cart.


Riverfront has long green to tee treks.  Walking 18 there is walking 23 elsewhere.  When it is over 90, I can walk and carry 9 and then it gets very tough after that.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish clubs had mandatory lockers. I could be wrong but the majority of guys without a locker love to walk and carry. Spikeless shoes are wonderful for pulling up, loading out and running up to the first tee. Just reverse the process for the trip home.


I know, I know all you walkers aren't cheap, it's just that all cheap guys are walkers. Oh, and all cart boozers aren't lazy but all lazy guys take carts.

[John Kavanaugh]

Back in the glory days of club life the pro got to keep the cart revenue. If you were really lucky he also had the bar.

[Peter Pallotta]

If you reverse-engineer the article, I think you can tell that the writer didn't start out (as per AG's post) to explore the differences between Golf and golf -- which would've made for a good read; nor did he begin by considering the notion that our ancestors were made of sterner stuff than we are (as per Mike and Kyle's points) -- which would have made for an interesting read; nor did he do extensive research and prepare himself with the relevant cost-benefit analyses (as per Garlands' reference to the USGA report) -- which would have made for an informative read. No, what (it appears) he did instead was to start his article with the ready-made NPR message that "carts are good for golf" and then quickly slap onto it a 'timely' opening line re President Trump's reference to exercise and just as quickly slap onto it an 'unarguable' closing line re playing as much golf as you can. That's at least how I imagined the writing process for this article -- but maybe that's because I found it neither a good read nor an interesting or informative one, and so had to reverse engineer it to understand why.
I don't know if carts are good for golf or not; but lazy writing is never good, and it doesn't further the discussion/debate one bit.

[Peter Flory]

    I need a cart to play golf.  I am now 75, and degenerative conditions have overtaken. The last time I walked a course was in 2013 at Erin Hills, with a caddie.

Erin Hills could break a 25 year old. 

[Tom_Doak]

Peter P:


Having written about golf for magazines for decades, I imagined it was just the other way around -- the writer submitted a piece on how many calories it took to walk and carry your bag and play, and then the editor insisted on appending the portion about "carts are good for golf," to be sure not to offend their partners in the golf industry.


I had a story killed a few months ago by another magazine, most likely because I didn't make any provisions to be kind to my partners in the golf industry.  It was the first time in 40 years of writing that had happened to me.




A CORRECTION:  I blamed the alleged change in the first paragraph on "the editor", but in my case it was the publisher who objected; the editor apologized to me as he was surprised by it.  But, as someone noted recently, at bigger publications, you do not get to be the Editor if you are someone that the Publisher will have to tell what stories to kill or change.

[Pete_Pittock]

    I need a cart to play golf.  I am now 75, and degenerative conditions have overtaken. The last time I walked a course was in 2013 at Erin Hills, with a caddie.

Erin Hills could break a 25 year old.

the hardest part was finishing on 18 and looking at the rest of the trek. The cool drink afterwards was not enough compensation.

[MCirba]

I need clarification of this point, made earlier by the gentleman from Philadelphia:


"So, if it's $40 to play and $20 to share a cart, just charge $50 to walk or ride.   Essentially, carts are free and just like in society the able-bodied help to subsidize those who are not."

If carts are free, what restricts the able-bodied from using them?

Hi Ron,

Nothing, it's already bought and paid for in the one-size fits all charge.

However, those of us who choose or prefer walking can do so without issue and if the course or club has push-carts available all the better.

It is mandatory cart usage that my plan addresses, taking the "we need the cart revenue" issue off the table.

[Tom_Doak]

This is an excerpt from a golf.com article on how many calories you burn by walking and playing, walking and carrying, or riding, when it got to the part about riding.  Posted without comment:




First, carts are good for golf, as NPR reports here, because they create added revenue for courses themselves: They enable golf facilities “to get more people on the course and get them around the course faster,” Steve Mona, CEO of the World Golf Foundation.

Posted without comment. Also posted without including the subsequent paragraph:


"Second, carts allow the game to remain more inclusive to many elderly golfers who may enjoy golf but don’t possess the ability to walk 18 undulating holes."

Also, Jason, if we're going to talk about the tone of the whole part about golf carts, maybe you should have quoted the lead-in just BEFORE points 1 and 2, above, which reads:




Of course, while lots of golf snobs insist on walking only, doing so obscures three important factors:

[Tim Martin]

Back in the glory days of club life the pro got to keep the cart revenue. If you were really lucky he also had the bar.

I live in a town where back in the day the municipal golf course pro had the range, carts, pro shop and snack bar. In its heyday it was doing 60,000 rounds a year.

[Bernie Bell]

This is an excerpt from a golf.com article on how many calories you burn by walking and playing, walking and carrying, or riding, when it got to the part about riding.  Posted without comment:




First, carts are good for golf, as NPR reports here, because they create added revenue for courses themselves: They enable golf facilities “to get more people on the course and get them around the course faster,” Steve Mona, CEO of the World Golf Foundation.

Posted without comment. Also posted without including the subsequent paragraph:


"Second, carts allow the game to remain more inclusive to many elderly golfers who may enjoy golf but don’t possess the ability to walk 18 undulating holes."

Also, Jason, if we're going to talk about the tone of the whole part about golf carts, maybe you should have quoted the lead-in just BEFORE points 1 and 2, above, which reads:




Of course, while lots of golf snobs insist on walking only, doing so obscures three important factors:

Stupid author.  Didn't even get his grammar right.  Obviously doesn't appreciate the difference between those who merely golf and those few who Golf.

[jeffwarne]

Has anyone done a proper economic analysis of carts vs no carts, including the capex needed for carts for storage, charging, and cart paths?  That is even before the additional opex that will be needed to pay for damage caused by carts, additional electricity usage, etc.  What would this be at a typical course where you may want 72 carts (for a double shotgun under normal 2/cart conditions)


Of course that requires the no cart option to be an almost complete shunning of carts like you see at places like Cabot or Bandon.  Most clubs/courses here in Canada don't have the cojones to go the no-cart option as they are worried about the reaction from their members or fee paying public.

Around year 2000 the USGA came out with a statement that cart usage costs a club significantly more than the revenue generated. See their publication "Golf is a Walking Game".

bingo
cost of fleet, electricity, maintenance
wear and tear on course


If you need more revenue-charge more in green fees.
of course carts make sense for those who need them

[Greg Hohman]

Before going elsewhere, I was told last year by the guy behind the counter at Cathedral Canyon in Cathedral City CA (Palm Springs area) that the owner, JC Golf, made carts mandatory for liability reasons (desert heat).

(The UGA also held championships at South Park.)

[John Kavanaugh]

Enjoying the cart experience doesn’t make you a bad person.

[Sean_A]

I think it is hard to argue carts aren't good for golf if we are defining golf as a game played by golfers. The problem is really down to cart accommodation... ie cart paths. If carts were better managed in terms of numbers that wouldn't damage a non cart path course it wouldn't be an issue. The problem is encouraging carts with cart path construction and cart inclusive fees.

Just like accomodating the long ball, the golf industry doesn't discriminate between what is good for golf and what is good for profits. Unfortunately, a large percentage of golfers don't either.

Ciao

[Mike_Trenham]

I will once again advocate for my private club cart pricing formula.


Everyone pays $100.00 less their age.


75 years old = $25.00
18 years old = $82.00


There would be a flat rate for those with medical issues.

[Mark Mammel]

Carts are only good for golf when they are used by the folks who can't otherwise play. I believe- not certain- that they really became part of the scene when President Eisenhower started using a cart because of his heart problems. Then, they became a revenue stream. Are they faster? Sure, on a course where you can drive anywhere and all players in a group use them. Mix walkers and carts, or have cart path only rules, and they are decidedly slower and no fun. Carts also promote designs most of us here hate- those that can't be walked, that have holes scattered all over, with no flow or continuity. Finally, think revenue. Here's some history. I first played Pebble Beach in 1982. $60. Walking was fine. Carts/caddies available. Then, a few years later, they went to a cart-or-caddie only program- and there were almost no caddies. I have to assume I wasn't the only one to suggest they just bundle the price and tell players they could walk and carry or take a cart, same price. Caddies, as always were and are extra. That policy was adopted sometime in the '90s and lasted until about 8 or 9 years ago, when they realized that they were leaving money on the table. So, now your $540 no longer includes a cart. And it's cart path only. And no trollies. And 5+ hours unless you get off early. I will admit that at 68, when the temperature and humidity collide at 85+ degrees, I am happy to have transport.


It's always about the money.

[Bruce Katona]

Below is a list of positive revenue lines at courses that need to operate at a profit for their owners (private clubs can break even, if they are at a cash flow deficit, they can simply assess the members or raise the dues the following year):


1. Range
2. Golf Course
3. Golf Carts
4. Halfway House/beverage cart (limited menu & low employee costs)
5. Pro Shop (balls/tees/ soft goods all do ok)


Cash Losses:


1. Course Maintenance (no revenue generated)
2. Club House & locker room - why is their typically a monthly minimum & the occasional wedding for non-members - looking to limit the loss?
3. Pool
4.Tennis


There are occasional exceptions to the above, but if the business of golf and generating positive cash flow, ROI, ROE were that easy a business model, golf would be a growing business.


I'll let some of the other operators also opine.


BK

[Jerry Kluger]

While we're at it how about cell phones.  It annoys the hell out of me when someone takes or makes a call which is not urgent while playing golf.  I don't have a problem with their looking at their phones but non-urgent calls aggravate me to no end. 


So far as carts are concerned we can all say how offended we are by them and it may not be justifiable that they are in such common use but I would be willing to bet that a significant percentage of revenue would be lost if they were banned in the US except for medical reasons.  I am not limiting that to the revenue from the carts but the loss of golfers as well. You could say good riddance to them but don't cry when the courses go broke and have to shut down.


Peter: I played Sand Valley last year and I don't believe that there were any carts on the property.   

[Bradley Anderson]

It was amazing how nicer the course looked this spring when the covid rules prohibited carts. The mowing patterns held up longer too, so the place just looked so much crisper. Now we're letting foursomes go with four carts. Four guys driving their own carts at you. They might as well be Neanderthals.

[Tim Leahy]

There is no big G golf. Only golf. There are big A Arseholes who want something to nitpick about. If you want to exercise go run a mile or play tennis or full court basketball.

[Joe Bausch]

Mike,


Cool to see someone mention South Park. My first job after college had me living in Bethel Park. So I played South Park many times the year I was there.


Yes, it is very hilly, but I don’t remember that ever discouraging me from playing and walking the course.

Tim,

Yes, Joe and I are inveterate walkers but it was a really steamy, humid morning.   


That and the fact I'm turning 62 in a week may have been factor, as well.   

There couldn’t have been contributing factors like some IPAs or Bloody Marys the round the day before, nor the lack of sleep from the evening at the flea-bag hotel with cloggers above us all night.  😉