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Kevin Pallier

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Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« on: July 06, 2020, 11:17:22 PM »
What are the best short Par 4's you've seen in hole sequence 1-18? Why?
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2020, 11:27:30 PM »
I'll start with some I can think of

1   Royal Melborne (East) - Aust. [305m]
2   St. Andrews Beach - Aust. [280m]
3   Kingston Heath  - Aust. [270m]
4   Barnbougle Dunes - Aust. [270m]
5   
6   
7   
8   
9   Cypress Point - USA
10   Riviera - USA
11   
12   
13   
14   Barnbougle Lost Farm - Aust. [265m]
15   
16   
17   
18   St. Andrews (Old) - Scotland
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David Ober

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 12:10:59 AM »
12 at Rustic Canyon. 335(?) yards.


Love that you can make a case for playing OVER the green in order to pitch back to it into the wind when it's howling. Love how the sand encroaches JUST ENOUGH to catch people getting too greedy with their line off the tee. Love the green complex.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2020, 12:27:55 AM »
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Kyle Harris

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 05:30:29 AM »
Streamsong Blue #1, 6(!), 13(!!)
Streamsong Red #9 (!!!)
Streamsong Black #2(!), 14(!?!)
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Tim Leahy

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 05:45:01 AM »
#8 at Pebble  chasm takes away driver, second shot is beautiful and scary.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 05:53:32 AM by Tim Leahy »
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2020, 05:51:49 AM »
This thread hasn't officially started until someone mentions Ganton 3 and 14.


I'll throw Elie 2 (an uphill one, which is unusual) and 6 into the pot, as well.
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2020, 06:26:43 AM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on July 07, 2020, 05:51:49 AM
This thread hasn't officially started until someone mentions Ganton 3 and 14.


I'll throw Elie 2 (an uphill one, which is unusual) and 6 into the pot, as well.


Agreed on the two Ganton holes...


A few of my favourites in Ireland:


- County Louth 14th
- Portrush Valley 7th (formerly 9th)
- Rosapenna Old Tom 13th
- Royal Dublin 16th



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Mark Pearce

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 06:35:32 AM »
Crail Balcomie 9 is driveable (or so my sons tell me) but has OOB down the right, getting closer to the line of play as you get nearer the green, until the wall runs along the right side of the green.  Front left is a cavernous bunker.  The green is canted to the left, so to drive the green you have to challenge the OOB.  Laying up leaves a tricky wedge shot.  Alternatively, bail out left and hope for nice lie in the semi rough. 
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Richard Fisher

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2020, 06:45:58 AM »
Swinley 3
St Enedoc 4
Little Aston 4
Deal 6
Sacred Nine 9
Aberdovey 16 (nailed on)
Huntercombe 17
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2020, 06:49:58 AM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on July 07, 2020, 06:35:32 AM
Crail Balcomie 9 is driveable (or so my sons tell me) but has OOB down the right, getting closer to the line of play as you get nearer the green, until the wall runs along the right side of the green.  Front left is a cavernous bunker.  The green is canted to the left, so to drive the green you have to challenge the OOB.  Laying up leaves a tricky wedge shot.  Alternatively, bail out left and hope for nice lie in the semi rough.


Another fine nomination. St. Enodoc 4 is perhaps an even better example of the same idea.
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Ira Fishman

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2020, 08:17:20 AM »
Several have already been mentioned. How about?


Number 3 at PH2
Number 4 at Mid Pines
Number 7 at Golspie
Number 9 at the River Course at Koehler
Number 14 at Bandon Trails


Kilspindie has several as does Elie.


Ira
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David_Tepper

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2020, 08:32:55 AM »
#5 at Royal Dornoch, long narrow green set at a diagonal to the fairway. From a design point of view possibly the best hole on the course. 
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Niall C

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2020, 08:43:59 AM »
When I first read the OP I thought it meant consecutive short par 4's on the same course and immediately thought of 9 and 10 on Moray Old. Being links, both are reachable in the right conditions for even a moderate driver of the ball, and when the conditions don't favour you they are still fun to play as finding safety with the drives isn't easy unless you lay up quite a bit.

The other two consecutive shorties are the 8th and 9th at Gailes, where it is all about the challenge and beauty of the green complexes.

The other one that came to mind was the 3rd at Cruden Bay.

Niall
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Ira Fishman

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2020, 11:59:25 AM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on July 07, 2020, 08:32:55 AM
#5 at Royal Dornoch, long narrow green set at a diagonal to the fairway. From a design point of view possibly the best hole on the course.


+1
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Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2020, 12:01:28 PM »
second for Mid Pines 4th.


I'd also include Sweetens Cove 5th, Pinehurst No. 3 5th, & Belvedere 16th.
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2020, 03:34:31 PM »
1st - Stinchcombe Hill - https://www.stinchcombehillgolfclub.com/course/hole/1/ - more than it seems. :)
Atb
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Adam G

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2020, 04:43:56 PM »
5 Boston Golf Club.
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2020, 03:17:40 AM »
2nd - The Players Club near Bristol, Stranahan course.
Honourable mention - 2nd at Tadmarton Heath
atb
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Michael Felton

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2020, 08:20:02 AM »
8 at Pine Valley is just about the best short par four I've seen. Playing a wedge off a sloping lie to the smallest green you've ever seen. Hard not to clench up. Would add a vote for 6 at Deal too. Exasperating.
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Ira Fishman

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2020, 08:51:43 AM »
Pacific Dunes 6 and 16 both fantastic holes. So is Lahinch 13. The Island Club 5th in the old routing might be a tad long for this exercise, but it is (was?) a wonderful hole.


Ira
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2020, 02:35:33 PM »
Steve is spot on with Scottsdale TPC's #17 — There really is no other hole that looks like it that I can think of, considering the bunkering, green shape, surrounds and the water. I think it is one-of-a-kind. Hats off to Morrish and Weiskopf.
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JESII

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2020, 02:45:49 PM »
7 and 8 at Merion are pretty special. 10 is cool, but wouldn't surpass Riviera's 1oth from what I hear. #1 is a good opener probably right at that 350 number.


I really like 12 at Pine Valley, even though it was recently the cutoff point for Tom Doak's listing of consecutive great holes...2 at PV might be 10 or 15 yards outside the limit but from the front tee should be included.







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JESII

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2020, 02:47:22 PM »
The Sandbelt will be well represented...
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Best Short Par 4s (< 350y / 320m - in hole sequence order)
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2020, 12:46:54 PM »
Most of the courses that scored a 10 on the Doak Scale set themselves apart with a group of exceptional short par-4's.  To wit:


Shinnecock Hills - 8, 13
National Golf Links - 1, 2, 14, 17
Pine Valley - 2, 8, 17
Merion (East) - 1, 7, 8, 10
Pinehurst (No. 2) - 3, 13
Crystal Downs - 5, 7, 15, 17
Sand Hills - 7, 8
Pacific Dunes - 1, 2, 6, 16
Cypress Point - 8, 9, 13


Royal Melbourne (West) - 3, 10
Royal Dornoch - 1, 5, 15
St. Andrews (Old) - 7, 12, 16, 18
Muirfield - 2, 3, 11
Ballybunion (Old) - 1, 6, 10




As a result I have always looked for similar holes in my own work.  A few have been mentioned already, but not 7 & 12 at Ballyneal, or 4, 6 & 15 at Dismal River (Red).
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