[Niall C]

"It is interesting (although not very surprising, once you think about it) that just about all of the "hidden" gems mentioned above are in fact out in the open, near one of more of the more conventional tourist routes (whisky, hills, coastlines, history, tartan, etc.).  They are in nice places, populated by nice people.  People like us.

To me, the real hidden gems are in the heart of Scotland, in the Central belt from West Fife through to Ayrshire, where coal was king, and the golf courses were built to the specifications and needs of the working man.  Nice people, but people not necessarily like us, and in not so nice places.

It's easy to schedule a trip to Cape Wrath, and whilst enjoying the breathtaking scenery, say--"Oh Henry, let's try that quaint little 9-holer in Durness!"  Or, on your way to a few drams of The Glenlivet decide to play Boat of Garten, or whilst in Edinburgh play Braid Hills.  How many of you, however, want to muck about the industrial wasteland of Scotland to try to find and play places like Wishaw and Auchterderran and Glenbervie and Hamilton and Canmore?

These places (and many others of their ilk) are truly hidden, and are gems in their own right, if you take the time to find them and take them for what they are.  Maybe this is the next project for Golf Digest........"

The above is from our late friend Rich Goodale from a 2007 thread on Scottish courses that were "hidden gems". Rich was commenting on the usual list of courses that were put forward and bemoaning the fact that the real hidden gems in Scotland’s central belt were rarely or ever mentioned on GCA. As usual Rich was spot on, so with a nod to his point here is my list, starting with some of the courses he mentioned. Feel free to add some more.

Glenbervie (Braid 1932)
Hamilton (Braid 1925)
Wishaw (Braid)
Ranfurly Castle (Kirkaldy/Auchterlonie, redesigned by Colt and Braid)
Bathgate (Braid redesign)
Bonnyton (MacKenzie 1923)
East Renfrewshire (Braid 1922)
Cardross (original layout Fernie/1921 redesign Braid)
Cambuslang (Willie Campbell 1892/ subsequent changes Unknown)
Pitreavie (MacKenzie 1922)
Cawder (Braid)
Belleisle (Braid 1927)
Pollok (redesign MacKenzie and Braid 1923)
Kilmacolm (Braid redesign 1924)
Ratho Park (Braid 1928)

I’ve played all of the above with the exception of Kilmacolm and heard enough from those I trust who have played it to include it in this list. With the exception of perhaps Pitreavie and Cardross none of these courses are even in sight of the coast, and all are most definitely inland.

Anyone else played them and do you agree ?

Niall

[Niall C]

As an aside, this list shows once again how accomplished James Braid was.

Niall

[Tim Gallant]

Niall,


What a wonderful thread! Thanks for sharing and I can't wait to add a few of these to the list of places to see. Of those that you posted, is there one or two that really stuck with you and had some features that you've not seen anywhere else?

[Clyde Johnson]

Nice thread Niall. I've played a few of them, and a called into a few others too.


There's certainly value in East Ren, Pitreavie and Kilmalcolm.



I'm not sure if they're quite in the central belt, but I'd include Lanark and Carnwath as courses of interest.


If restrictions are eased before we can get started working again at St Patrick's there's a fair numbers of those I'll try to get to early this summer.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Niall,


My eye was caught by mention of Bonnyton, as it was the second time today the name came up! I've just read a 2008  thread from Neil Crafter confirming it as a MacKenzie but asking for more information.


Did you ever see this letter from around the same time? It appears that someone was researching the history of Bonnyton. It even gives his address!


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12750557.the-man-who-claimed-he-shot-down-hess/

[Mark Pearce]

I used to play in a Tartan Tour Pro-Am one of our clients sponsored at Belleisle and have also played Pitreavie (with Rich) and Kilmacolm.  Can't you see the sea from Belleisle?

[Bernie Bell]

where coal was king, and the golf courses were built to the specifications and needs of the working man. 

What does that mean in relation to these courses, especially the Braid courses?

[Tom_Doak]

Niall:


That's an interesting list.  I only know a handful of the names.


We debated the other day whether there was such a thing as "the Golden Age" in the UK in the 1920's, because of recovery from the war effort, so I am surprised to see that so many courses were built in Scotland that decade.  Was industrial prosperity behind that?  [Also, everyone on that thread talked about how Colt's dominance had driven MacKenzie overseas, but your list makes clear that Braid had a hand in that, too.]


Also, you list Pollok as MacKenzie and Braid . . . how did that work?  Did one route it and the other build it?

[Marty Bonnar]

A few snaps from our Round at Bathgate, Niall. Two years ago, already!


























I recently posted these up to a FB group I’m a member of. I grew up near to Bathgate and played it a bit in my youth. Hadn’t been back in forty years and had totally forgotten how decent it is.


Cheers,
F.

[John Mayhugh]

I've bookmarked this discussion. May take a while, but would love to add some of these to a trip. Thanks for posting.

[Ian Galbraith]

That was a good day out at Bathgate Marty, I too was impressed with what we found there.


From Niall's list the shiniest 'gem' I've played is Glenbervie  - but it is not very 'hidden' being well known as an excellent course among Scottish golfers.


Ratho Park is a good example of a nice Braid parkland course of which there are many  (like Prestonfield, Baberton, Mortonhall etc etc). Loads of good golf outside the top 100 in Scotland.


Random fact - both Ratho and Glenbervie have par 5's with a muckle big tree in the middle of the fairway !

[Marty Bonnar]

I was hoping you'd chip in, Ian. That was a great evening.
Thoughts on Pumpherston after a year? I seem to remember some great 'old' holes and some hohum new ones!

[Thomas Dai]

As an aside, this list shows once again how accomplished James Braid was.
Niall

+1

Did any architect ever do better with little money and poor terrain?
atb

[Clyde Johnson]

I know we've probably mentioned a few of these in our times playing together Niall, but these have caught my attention as worth a look?


Cathkin Braes
Cowglen
Greenock
Hellensburgh
Skelmorlie

[Ian Galbraith]

I know we've probably mentioned a few of these in our times playing together Niall, but these have caught my attention as worth a look?


Cathkin Braes
Cowglen
Greenock
Hellensburgh
Skelmorlie

I was a junior member at Greenock growing up. Great club for a junior as they have a fun 9 hole course too which the juniors had free run of. Course itself is up high above the town with fantastic views over the Cowal peninsula. I'm no expert but it strikes me as not an easy piece of land to find 18 holes on but the layout is generally ok. Haven't been there recently but I hear the junior section is struggling for number which is a shame.

[Niall C]

Niall:


That's an interesting list.  I only know a handful of the names.


We debated the other day whether there was such a thing as "the Golden Age" in the UK in the 1920's, because of recovery from the war effort, so I am surprised to see that so many courses were built in Scotland that decade.  Was industrial prosperity behind that?  [Also, everyone on that thread talked about how Colt's dominance had driven MacKenzie overseas, but your list makes clear that Braid had a hand in that, too.]


Also, you list Pollok as MacKenzie and Braid . . . how did that work?  Did one route it and the other build it?

Tom

The UK economy definitely stagnated during the 1920's but I don't think it was in total free fall. There was still enough economic activity to enable things to get done. All of the courses listed with the exception of Belleisle, which was/is a muni, and Bonnyton which very unusually for Scotland was a commercial venture, are and were members clubs started with relatively modest budgets by todays standards. The land would have been leased at a very reasonably rate, with maybe a temporary clubhouse built or some existing building taken over and adapted to keep the initial cost down.

Then the course would have been built the old fashioned way relative to what was maybe going on in the US where I believe there was more use of machines and very much more dirt being moved ? In the UK it was still much more labour intensive. Now I can't speak with any knowledge on the specific courses listed but a lot of courses during that era were built using the unemployed which was paid for by Government funding. An example of that is Duff House Royal in Moray which got grant funding to employ 40 unemployed labourers.

So yes, there were a lot of courses built during that era. I don't have the Braid book to hand but I'd guess that if you looked at that it would show the bulk of his output was during the 1920's and first half of the 30's. To my way of thinking he was a much bigger competitor to MacKenzie than Colt.

Re Pollok - can't recall the name of who originally designed the course in the early 1890's but it was some local greenkeeper IIRC. Braid and Mac were there at separate times during the early 20's. Can't recall what they each did off hand but it was basically a case of the club going with some of the recommendations of each. One of the new holes of MacKenzie which is still there is a par 3 using his Gibraltar template. Another of his suggestions was switching the 1st and the 18th. The club discussed that with Braid and he advised against it so the club didn't do it.

There was a similar scenario at Erskine where both Mac and Braid did work over the same time period. (that's another course that could be on the list)

Niall

[Niall C]

Niall,


My eye was caught by mention of Bonnyton, as it was the second time today the name came up! I've just read a 2008  thread from Neil Crafter confirming it as a MacKenzie but asking for more information.


Did you ever see this letter from around the same time? It appears that someone was researching the history of Bonnyton. It even gives his address!


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12750557.the-man-who-claimed-he-shot-down-hess/

Duncan

Another bizarre fact about Bonnyton but Sir Stanley Matthews got married in the clubhouse. Don't ask me how or why !

Niall

[Niall C]

I used to play in a Tartan Tour Pro-Am one of our clients sponsored at Belleisle and have also played Pitreavie (with Rich) and Kilmacolm.  Can't you see the sea from Belleisle?

Mark

I don't recall being able to see the sea at Belleisle. The course is definitely on the inland side of the town.

Kilmacolm - another that's been on my to do list for a number of years. What did you think of it ? It's certainly got a fairly good rep locally. It generally ranks alongside Ranfurly Castle which is nearby, and I'm a fan of Ranfurly Castle.

Niall

[Niall C]

where coal was king, and the golf courses were built to the specifications and needs of the working man. 

What does that mean in relation to these courses, especially the Braid courses?

Bernie

If only Rich was still around to expand on that. Unfortunately you will have to do with me instead. I think what Rich was referring to was the modesty of the courses, both in how they were built (see my post to Tom) and the amount of land that they took up. I suspect that a lot of these courses come in at under a 100 acres including clubhouse, green keepers sheds, car parks etc. which would be reflected in the yardages.

That's not to say that some of the courses don't have sweeping views of the surrounding countryside, which they do, but these aren't courses developed on a grand scale with luxurious trappings.

Niall

[Niall C]

I know we've probably mentioned a few of these in our times playing together Niall, but these have caught my attention as worth a look?


Cathkin Braes
Cowglen
Greenock
Hellensburgh
Skelmorlie

Clyde

Sadly Helensburgh is no more from what I gather. The club sold the land for housing with a view to building a course adjacent.

I've played Greenock in the past and played Skelmorlie and Cathkin Braes last year, all of which I enjoyed. Cathkin starts well but somehow slightly disappoints thereafter. Don't know why because it has quite a few really good holes. Maybe I was expecting too much. Skelmorlie had some fun parts with a bit of old fashioned square greens which I enjoyed although it wouldn't be on the top of my list to go back to.

Give me a shout when you are out and about and I'll join you for a game.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

Niall, I don't have that clear a recollection of Kilmacolm.  My sister in law lives in Bridge of Weir and I played it over 20 years ago, before I had much of an interest in or appreciation of architecture.  I do remember enjoying it though, and remember holing my 4th for par on the 18th, having thinned my second through the green and hit the (OB) clubhouse.  Reasonably hilly.  I'd like to get back one day.  I've never played Ranfurly Castle but it's another on my list.

[Brian_Ewen]

Sadly Helensburgh is no more from what I gather. The club sold the land for housing with a view to building a course adjacent.

https://projectscot.com/2022/01/plans-submitted-for-development-at-helensburgh-golf-club/


Taylor Wimpey added that there will also be a ‘full revision and upgrade’ of new and retained golf holes to provide an ‘enhanced’ community facility of an 18-hole golf course and create a new 6-hole par 3 course.

[ward peyronnin]

Would Pitlochry qualify or is it too far north on the Highlands?

[Niall C]

Thank you gents, I'd forgotten about this thread. Interesting about Helensburgh, I'll need to investigate.


Ward - Pitlochry is definitely beyond the central belt but also definitely worth a play.


Niall

[Niall C]

Niall, I don't have that clear a recollection of Kilmacolm.  My sister in law lives in Bridge of Weir and I played it over 20 years ago, before I had much of an interest in or appreciation of architecture.  I do remember enjoying it though, and remember holing my 4th for par on the 18th, having thinned my second through the green and hit the (OB) clubhouse.  Reasonably hilly.  I'd like to get back one day.  I've never played Ranfurly Castle but it's another on my list.

Mark


I can now say that I have played Kilmacolm. I fully enjoyed myself even though my golf was so diabolical that I lost all my golf balls bar one which I managed to nurse round the last 3 holes. It's a course I'd like to play again when my game was in decent shape so I could enjoy it more. The way I'd describe it is hilly moorland.


Niall

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