[Edward Glidewell]

DT,
I don’t see water-gorse as the same scenario and the blooming period isn’t really relevant either. As to playability, folks need to learn to hit it straight and if you can’t hit a driver straight take a fairway wood and if you can’t hit that straight hit a hybrid etc etc down to a putter. They coped a hundred plus years ago likely with more of the stuff around and with pretty erratic equipment too. Gorse has played a part in golf forever, it’s part of the games tradition, planted trees aren’t.
Atb

Almost everything you said applies to water hazards too, though. Learn to hit it straight and they're not an issue. And water is less penal than gorse.

[Kalen Braley]

Edward,

Agree completely. 

I think gorse is just another GCA double standard that must be accepted.  Patches of gorse everywhere = good.  Little ponds = bad. 

Another one is TOC 17, a unique one-of-a-kind hole that gets the Jim Nantz reverence treatment...but you'd be out of your damn mind, (and probably out of a job), if you tried building something like that now.

[Sean_A]

ATB

When I see your image I see a problem. I recall Dornoch 17 and what will be the old 7th being an utter mess due to gorse.

Gorse is great for background beauty and the odd bit of trouble,but I would never like to see holes dominated by the stuff... especially holes the quality of 17.

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

Hitting it straight is much easier without 20-40 mph winds that are pretty typical at many links layouts.  combine that with gorse like gutters on a bowling lane and it is pretty tough to roll strikes.

[Thomas Dai]

I don't recall either of the RDGC holes being a mess because of the gorse. And of course it can be trimmed or thinned out a bit. Not convinced either that gorse is more penal than water these days given how the RoG were amended a year or so ago. And as to playability, play with an appropriate degree of caution/aggressiveness as conditions at the time dictate.
atb

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,


7 at Dornoch was a mile wide.  If you put it in the gorse you had missed the barn door with your banjo.

[Edward Glidewell]

I don't recall either of the RDGC holes being a mess because of the gorse. And of course it can be trimmed or thinned out a bit. Not convinced either that gorse is more penal than water these days given how the RoG were amended a year or so ago. And as to playability, play with an appropriate degree of caution/aggressiveness as conditions at the time dictate.
atb

It still is, at least if I remember correctly -- although you don't have to take both stroke and distance (if the local rule is in effect), if you drop where the ball entered the gorse it's a two stroke penalty instead of a one stroke penalty like a water hazard. So if you hit a driver into the gorse, can't find the ball, and take a drop, you're laying four, as opposed to laying three in the same situation with a water hazard.


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about the new local rule, though!

[Sean_A]

Sean,

7 at Dornoch was a mile wide.  If you put it in the gorse you had missed the barn door with your banjo.

Not overly narrow nor attractive 🙄

Edward

My take is gorse in quantity requires time to find the ball. That is often not the case for water or OOB.  I also think it encourages the growth of crap grass instead of encouraging fine grasses. In any case, ATB likes gorse. The heart wants what the heart wants.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Not overly narrow nor attractive 🙄

Nor good (though a decent green complex).  In the high handicap section of the Carnegie Shield in 2018 I managed to take 15 shots to play the hole in the first round without losing a ball.  I then improved by 12 shots the next day!


Gorse is pretty as a side bar but in play is worse than water.  Which is not to say that, sometimes, it doesn't make for a great hazard but used sparingly and with real alternatives to the shot that challenges it.

[David_Tepper]

Speaking of #7 at Royal Dornoch, here is a pic of the new #7, under a light dusting of snow.

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/4/4/royal-dornoch-after-a-light-dusting-of-snow-and-a-glimpse-of-the-remodeled-7th-hole


Instagram video:  https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hI6ANl2Pu/

Mark P. -


Based on my experience, the old #7 was not wide enough! 

DT

[Pete_Pittock]

I don't recall either of the RDGC holes being a mess because of the gorse. And of course it can be trimmed or thinned out a bit. Not convinced either that gorse is more penal than water these days given how the RoG were amended a year or so ago. And as to playability, play with an appropriate degree of caution/aggressiveness as conditions at the time dictate.
atb

It still is, at least if I remember correctly -- although you don't have to take both stroke and distance (if the local rule is in effect), if you drop where the ball entered the gorse it's a two stroke penalty instead of a one stroke penalty like a water hazard. So if you hit a driver into the gorse, can't find the ball, and take a drop, you're laying four, as opposed to laying three in the same situation with a water hazard.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about the new local rule, though!

If your drive ends up lost in gorse you drop near the fairway (equidistant from hole) lying 3.
If you drive ends up in a water penalty area you would likely drop near the point of entry into the PA, lying 2.

[Edward Glidewell]

If your drive ends up lost in gorse you drop near the fairway (equidistant from hole) lying 3.
If you drive ends up in a water penalty area you would likely drop near the point of entry into the PA, lying 2.

Yes, I meant to say you were playing four and three, respectively.

[Matthew Rose]

Sometimes one, sometimes the other. Variety is the spice of life

[Thomas Dai]

So I guess not many will fancy playing something like this then ... only about 290 yds. Risk and reward or caution and hope?




It's been cropped back and the hole tweaked a bit recently so it's a little less tight now!



atb

[Bryan Izatt]

Dai,


The first picture reminds me of a level par 3 at Niall's Glagow Gailes that was completely blind over a tall field of gorse.  I think they subsequently eradicated it.  TOC has eradicated some large patches of gorse - for 150 yards in front of 7th tee, for example, if I remember correctly.  Royal Dornoch eradicated a lot of gorse after I played it in 2006.  All good things I think as it's too penal a hazard.  Ideally I'd like courses where you can generally find your ball and have some kind of recovery shot.


If I recall correctly from BUDA, you are the epitome of the fast, no-nonsense and straight hitting golfer - gorse lined courses would suit your game.     Your son, as I recall fell further from the tree as regards directional correctness.


Historically, I'm not so sure gorse was always a feature of Dornoch.  This picture from a 1906 Vardon/Braid match I think shows the 4th green and the bank to the side is gorse free.  Now, it's a wall of gorse.

[Thomas Dai]

You got it on both counts there Bryan!
My understanding is that in time’s well gone by gorse was encouraged in some places as it’s tight, compact nature and prickliness meant it could act as barriers helping to restrict the movement of grazing cattle and sheep etc.
Goats on the other hand are apparently rather fond of gorse hence back in time areas like the bank at RDGC etc could have been goat areas. And back then young lads would have acted as goat and cattle herders and shepherds etc supervising and safeguarding and moving their animals around accordingly.
Having played a bit of cross-country golf across erratic open rural terrain over the years I would hasten to suggest that in times now well gone by when courses were much more rustic in nature animal grazing patterns and other things like stream and wet patch crossings, seaweed/kelp harvesting and fishermen’s huts near the seashore and paths to and from them would have played an important part in course routings,  maintenance etc. And the same for other courses like heathlands or upland/moorlands where gorse grows and animals were grazed.
Atb

[Steve Lang]

Tree Lined...


Is the gorse still a factor at Ganton? 

[Jeff Schley]

Tree Lined...


Is the gorse still a factor at Ganton?

I played there this past Sept and it was not much of a factor, there was some heather which made balls findable at least. First time there so can't comment on what it used to be.

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