[Tommy Williamsen]

I just received this STEP notification about travel to Ireland.


Reconsider travel to Ireland due to [/size]COVID-19.[/size]Read the Department of State's COVID-19 page before you plan any international travel.The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 3 Travel Health Notice for Ireland due to COVID-19, indicating a high level of COVID-19 in the country. There are restrictions in place affecting U.S. citizen entry into Ireland. Your risk of contracting COVID-19 and developing severe symptoms may be lower if you are fully vaccinated with an FDA authorized vaccine. Before planning any international travel, please review the CDC's specific recommendations for fully vaccinated and unvaccinated travelers.

[Cliff Hamm]

Son is married to an Irish gal.  He is currently in Cork.  Quarantined for five days at his in-laws house. He states that it feels like the US six months ago.

[Pete_Pittock]

All COVID restrictions in Oregon have been lifted because the population is near 70% vaccinated. Coos County probably lagging behind that number.

[Wayne_Kozun]

For those of you in NSW or other parts of Australia, and in NZ - are you allowed to play golf right now?

[Michael Goldstein]

No golf is currently allowed in New Zealand.
This restriction is in place for 7 days in Auckland (and nearby region) and for 3 days across the rest of the country.

Most expect that the restrictions will be extended although I would be surprised if it is more than 7 days in the South Island where I live.  The lockdown right now is very restrictive but kiwis living in New Zealand have lived without covid since 14 May 2020 (excepting a couple of days here and there in Auckland) so there is overwhelming buy in to the strategy.  Compare this to Melbourne who have just passed 200 days of lockdown.


The discussion of how New Zealand opens back up to the world is more contentious.

[Rob Marshall]

No golf is currently allowed in New Zealand.
This restriction is in place for 7 days in Auckland (and nearby region) and for 3 days across the rest of the country.

Most expect that the restrictions will be extended although I would be surprised if it is more than 7 days in the South Island where I live.  The lockdown right now is very restrictive but kiwis living in New Zealand have lived without covid since 14 May 2020 (excepting a couple of days here and there in Auckland) so there is overwhelming buy in to the strategy.  Compare this to Melbourne who have just passed 200 days of lockdown.


The discussion of how New Zealand opens back up to the world is more contentious.

I’m at a loss as to why you can’t social distance and play golf. No bar, no dinning inside I get. Playing golf I just don’t see it. That said, I respect NZ doing what they think is best. I count beans for a living so what do I know…

[Ash Towe]

Rob,
The strategy in NZ has worked before.
There are no exemptions. Once you make one there will be many more to follow. The vast majority of people are compliant. We see what has happened elsewhere and our vaccine roll out has been slow which has resulted in these strict lockdowns.

[Mark_Fine]

As I have been traveling (Northeast U.S. of late) I am starting to see clubs ask for proof of vaccination to be on the property.  I think others will start following this practice especially now that there is full FDA approval for one of the vaccines.  They just want a photo of your vaccine card.  No big deal. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Checked out the website of an in-state country club that hosts one of the largest amateur tournaments in the USA over one 27-hole course around Labor Day.
Four cocktail parties and a dinner, in a county with a low vaccination rate and high COVID case county where the ICUs are full and the National Guard has been called out to assist.
No COVID restrictions, and I didn't enter, this year, or last.

[Rob Marshall]

Interesting, here in Rochester we have nurses and Drs picketing because the hospital wants to mandate they be vaccinated. I can’t imagine what would happen if my club mandated vaccinations. It’s pretty polarizing.

[Pete_Pittock]

Interesting, here in Rochester we have nurses and Drs picketing because the hospital wants to mandate they be vaccinated. I can’t imagine what would happen if my club mandated vaccinations. It’s pretty polarizing.

Rob,
Pretty much nationwide.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Interesting, here in Rochester we have nurses and Drs picketing because the hospital wants to mandate they be vaccinated. I can’t imagine what would happen if my club mandated vaccinations. It’s pretty polarizing.

Christ Almighty - how is that possible??

[Tom_Doak]

A thought experiment:


If there are really large numbers of breakthrough cases out there -- and I know of six, myself -- then getting the vaccine did not really prevent them from getting the virus, for more than 3-4 months. 


And if they got the virus, then I've got to believe they could transmit the virus to others, although I'm sure someone will try to prove that they are "less contagious," somehow.  [I don't believe there have been significant studies of that, since the vaccine makers have been too busy assuring us that breakthrough cases were exceedingly rare.]


So, does the imperative that everyone should get the vaccine to protect others, really hold water, if it's not protecting against transmission??




Luckily, none of my friends are in the hospital; the vaccine does seem to be working at minimizing the effects of the virus, as far as they can tell for now.  That is, in fact, what the vaccines were evaluated for.  The "95% efficacy" was at keeping study participants from becoming seriously ill . . . they were not tested frequently to find out if they had gotten an asymptomatic case of the virus, and of course, when the studies were done it was not being tested against the Delta variant.


But is avoiding hospitalization really about protecting your fellow citizens, or is that really about protecting yourself [which would, of course, be a more personal decision]?




Whatever the case, I do know health care workers who have been putting their own lives on the line for 18 months now to save our asses, and I don't think we should start turning the blame cannons on them, of all people.

[Rob Marshall]

Who is blaming health care workers and for what? 


IF the vaccine doesn’t prevent the spread I think you are correct. Like you I know a vaccinated person  (mother-in-law) who recently got Covid. She’s 83 and has had some serious health issues. She’s doing fine with mild symptoms. My father-in-law didn’t get it. Vaccine may have saved her life. May have kept my father-in-law from getting it. No one really knows. I agree it’s a personal choice. Everyone should have the right to choose. I got vaccinated as soon as possible. For me that was choice I was most comfortable with.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think it has been shown that those that have been vaccinated are less likely to get the virus, so it does offer some protection for others.

[Tim Martin]

What I can’t get past is what negative effect could the vaccine have that’s worse than dying of Covid-19?

[Kalen Braley]

I think it has been shown that those that have been vaccinated are less likely to get the virus, so it does offer some protection for others.

Agreed Tommy and I would say it goes far beyond just "some protection".  In reality its protecting nearly everyone who is exposed to it.

In full context I think its best to look at the numbers, especially as it relates to those who get Covid that require medical intervention.  State to state numbers range from 96-99% of those who require hospitalization are unvaccinated.  If this was a 50/50 proposition, I'd be highly skeptical and ask why are we doing this, but that alone makes it worth the effort to get vaccinated.

[Tom_Doak]

What I can’t get past is what negative effect could the vaccine have that’s worse than dying of Covid-19?

I know it is difficult for most people who are well off to put themselves in the mindset of someone who is not.  But, have you maybe heard those statistics about how a fairly large percentage of Americans don't have $1000 saved in the event of an emergency?


Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?


Effects like that might seem a little more immediate to them than the chance of dying from coronavirus, especially if they have lived the last year and a half while avoiding coronavirus.  [And I will agree that their chances of getting it are more than they estimate based on hindsight, because of the Delta variant.]


Anyway, one of the big reasons that people don't get vaccinated is that health care in America is a racket.  It's not just that people in less fortunate circumstances don't trust the system -- it's that they know the system is designed to crush them.

[Rob Marshall]

"Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?"


The exact same can be said for not being vaccinated, getting covid and ending up on a ventilator. How much will that cost them? It works both ways no?

[Tim Martin]

"Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?"

The exact same can be said for not being vaccinated, getting covid and ending up on a ventilator. How much will that cost them? It works both ways no?

I’m with you Rob. The calculus for me is giving myself the best chance to live. What am I missing?

[Michael Whitaker]

Tom - currently, 98% of those seriously ill with COVID are unvaccinated. That says all I need to know. It baffles me... the goofy rationale people come up with to not get vaccinated for the common good.


I'm a bit older than you and I remember the Polio pandemic. It was a terribly horrific and frightening time. Everyone was afraid to go anywhere. Children in iron lungs and metal leg braces. The Polio vaccine was a Godsend, and we willingly lined up to get get our dose. How times have changed. 


What if a significant percentage of the public had refused the Polio vaccine? What if they had insisted they had the "right" to refuse the vaccine and still be able to go anywhere they wanted and participate in any public activity... just because they didn't want their "liberty" infringed. We would have had a very different outcome.


At some point everyone has to understand we live in a community and need to act for the common good. We've done it before. But, in today's world of Facebook and Twitter it seems too many people are just out for themselves and don't really give a crap what happens to their neighbors.


I have no time or sympathy for someone who refuses the vaccine for "personal liberty" reasons.

[Rob Marshall]

"Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?"

The exact same can be said for not being vaccinated, getting covid and ending up on a ventilator. How much will that cost them? It works both ways no?

I’m with you Rob. The calculus for me is giving myself the best chance to live. What am I missing?

I agree, some fear the long term effects of the shot. I don't think people are making the choice based on the financial impact of an adverse reaction to the shot but Tom may know something I don't.

[Tom_Doak]

"Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?"

The exact same can be said for not being vaccinated, getting covid and ending up on a ventilator. How much will that cost them? It works both ways no?

Sure.  But you are not understanding what I'm trying to say.


What I'm saying is, if you were living a very precarious existence, why would you trust the people telling you to get a shot, when they have never done anything to demonstrate that they cared about your circumstances?  And then would you be more inclined to trust them as they got more shrill and preachy and started to suggest ways to force you to do it?


I just think people should actually think about walking in someone else's shoes for a minute.  So I tried.

[Rob Marshall]

"Their calculus might be different than yours.  If you get the vaccine and develop serious side effects, are those covered for free, or will it bankrupt you?  Is your job protected if you have to take extended time away, or will you out of a job when/if you recover?"

The exact same can be said for not being vaccinated, getting covid and ending up on a ventilator. How much will that cost them? It works both ways no?

Sure.  But you are not understanding what I'm trying to say.


What I'm saying is, if you were living a very precarious existence, why would you trust the people telling you to get a shot, when they have never done anything to demonstrate that they cared about your circumstances?  And then would you be more inclined to trust them as they got more shrill and preachy and started to suggest ways to force you to do it?


I just think people should actually think about walking in someone else's shoes for a minute.  So I tried.

I think that the people you are talking about have probably seen some loved ones die from Covid. If I saw friends and family die I would get the shot but that's me but I respect their right to say no. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

[Lou_Duran]

At some point everyone has to understand we live in a community and need to act for the common good. We've done it before. But, in today's world of Facebook and Twitter it seems too many people are just out for themselves and don't really give a crap what happens to their neighbors.


I have no time or sympathy for someone who refuses the vaccine for "personal liberty" reasons.

I know only a handful of people who have not been vaccinated and don't have near term plans to get the shots.  Two have a family history of immune deficiency issues and all have had Covid with relatively mild symptoms and short duration (a week or so).  I've yet to hear a single person cite conscientious objections or concern for a diminution of personal liberty.


Mandatory masking is another issue all together, but that too suffers from the inconsistent and erroneous messaging of the past 18+ months.  I've been on three RT flights so far this year and the discomfort of wearing a common, generic mask is made considerably worse by the knowledge that these do little to stop the spread of the virus.


If we want people to act in the furtherance of the "common good", then maybe insist in keeping the politics out of it and just give us straight talk.  This includes "I don't know" when it is so obvious that our "betters" are just throwing stuff on the wall hoping that something will stick.  Better yet, since the one side which keeps extolling the virtues of diversity is the same as the one which continuously attempts to shame those who have a diverse point of view, acknowledge that we all have different tolerances for risk, and that a cost/benefit assessment is not readily made by others on our behalf.  Correlating the number of teeth in a person's mouth to his willingness to march in step with every government dictate is probably not real good "science" or likely to engender a feeling of community.


The 98% figure you cite, assuming it is correct, should give those who have had the vaccine a lot of confidence.  One doesn't hear much about herd immunity these days, all of the attention being focused on the seriousness of the Delta variant.  I don't know what more can be done to get those who are at risk of serious illness over the line.  Shaming- I think most of us learned as kids- does the opposite than gaining compliance in most cases.  Perhaps light, positive peer pressure might yield better results.


I've already received a notice from Tom Thumb of my eligibility for the booster, gratis (yeah!).  As soon as it can be administered, I am in.  I probably know 20+ folks near my age and some younger who are in the same vote.  No conscientious objectors in the bunch.


I did hear from one my golf mates leaving for London tomorrow that he was charged $200 for his required Covid test before departure, and has made arrangements for the two mandatory follow-up tests in the UK, each costing £200.  Seems like a racket to me.  Any cheaper options out there?

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()