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Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1000 on: June 27, 2020, 04:23:28 AM »
California
State mandatory masks
Not mandatory if you can maintain 6 feet outside


I am very protective due to health issues so sensitive to it


We are no guests.  Single carts.  Range spaced basically every other stall
No rakes and we have the lift gizmo in our holes for no touch ball removal


Mask rule not being enforced as I would believe it should be


Have seen a number of players getting ball out of the hole by normal reaching in


In our area there is a lot of the “you can’t force me to wear a mask” mentality


Again, I am very protective wearing a mask and glasses while teaching and I have had a few instances of outright anger at my doing so.


I’m ok with being goofed on, nobody can make more fun of me than me, but some stuff has been mean spirited


It’s a very strange world

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1001 on: June 27, 2020, 07:33:45 AM »
Last evening, our next door neighbors hosted a party in their backyard, which has a high fence all the way around and isn't visible from the street for 15-20 people, all in their 20's.  No masks.  No social distancing.  The guests wore masks as they walked from their cars to the yard, as required in Durham, then took them off for the duration of the party.
I wanted to call the police; my wife wouldn't let me.
As I observe things, including news reports from around the country, young people are the problem, and old people are their victims.  I'm in much less danger playing golf with a bunch of old guys than I am with the windows open in my bedroom.

(For reference, my 94 yr. old mother has been moved from her memory care facility to a Covid only unit after a positive test two weeks ago; she has to survive it and have two negative tests before she can return to the memory care unit where she has lived for the past two years.)


"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1002 on: June 27, 2020, 11:41:34 AM »
A.G.-


We are both blessed to have sensible wives.


The tradition of lamenting the devolution of subsequent generations continues.  Whether it is the young family next door enjoying their expensive new patio with loud music from early morning daily to as late as midnight on the now more frequent party nights, or the members at the club who are "working from home" during the pandemic and can't seem to find their ball marks or sand their divots (thank God or the government that not raking bunkers is the socially conscious thing, because they only minded taking care of the course casually when it was expected etiquette), it would seem that things are going to hell in a handbasket.


But in reality we- our generation- are achieving what we set out to do back in our days, the 60s and 70s.  We wanted to "do our thing", "make love not war", "if it feels good, do it", "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with", or, in summary, the belief that tradition, convention, rules, etc. are for suckers, in effect, "rules for dummies".


Somehow we forgot to set aside childish things when we became adults, temper our idealism with learning and understanding borne by experience.  We resented our parents for what we deemed as strict midnight curfews, expecting us to go to school and study (and for some of us to work while doing so), for keeping our hair somewhat short and minding our personal hygiene.


We tried to become friends to our kids at the expense of parenting, attempted to give them everything we thought we were denied growing up, and now we wonder why our Millie kids behave in such irresponsible ways.  Perhaps they paid close attention and, not falling far from the tree, are now giving us an un-welcomed reflection of ourselves.


Though I am prone to the "glass is half-empty" POV, I am choosing to look past the current messes (none of which are particularly unique).  In one of his less partisan commentaries, Dick Daley noted that our highly imperfect political system is self-correcting, the pendulum swinging too far to one side eventually swinging back.  I suspect that following the election, concerns about C-19, racial and economic equality, diversity and immigration, security, etc. will return to more normal levels.


In the meantime, my travel will be limited, social distancing will continue, neighbors tolerated, personal attention to course maintenance (sanding, fixing ball marks, picking up trash) doubled, and my visceral reaction to inane political commentary suppressed as much as possible.  We are blessed to live in such interesting times.  Hopefully we can look a bit more introspectively, conquer our own biases, and perhaps learn a bit from them.




Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1003 on: June 27, 2020, 07:23:50 PM »
Don't think the governor of Texas is a "millie."

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1004 on: June 27, 2020, 07:37:32 PM »
Last evening, our next door neighbors hosted a party in their backyard, which has a high fence all the way around and isn't visible from the street for 15-20 people, all in their 20's.  No masks.  No social distancing.  The guests wore masks as they walked from their cars to the yard, as required in Durham, then took them off for the duration of the party.
I wanted to call the police; my wife wouldn't let me.
As I observe things, including news reports from around the country, young people are the problem, and old people are their victims.  I'm in much less danger playing golf with a bunch of old guys than I am with the windows open in my bedroom.

(For reference, my 94 yr. old mother has been moved from her memory care facility to a Covid only unit after a positive test two weeks ago; she has to survive it and have two negative tests before she can return to the memory care unit where she has lived for the past two years.)


I find it hard to believe it’s illegal not to wear a mask on you own private property. Is NC really mandating that?


 I just left a restaurant in NYS. You wear a mask to your table and you wear it when you walk out. That’s it.my pet peeve is the people not wearing it over their nose.




If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1005 on: June 28, 2020, 08:32:02 AM »
Last evening, our next door neighbors hosted a party in their backyard, which has a high fence all the way around and isn't visible from the street for 15-20 people, all in their 20's.  No masks.  No social distancing.  The guests wore masks as they walked from their cars to the yard, as required in Durham, then took them off for the duration of the party.
I wanted to call the police; my wife wouldn't let me.
As I observe things, including news reports from around the country, young people are the problem, and old people are their victims.  I'm in much less danger playing golf with a bunch of old guys than I am with the windows open in my bedroom.

(For reference, my 94 yr. old mother has been moved from her memory care facility to a Covid only unit after a positive test two weeks ago; she has to survive it and have two negative tests before she can return to the memory care unit where she has lived for the past two years.)


I find it hard to believe it’s illegal not to wear a mask on you own private property. Is NC really mandating that?


 I just left a restaurant in NYS. You wear a mask to your table and you wear it when you walk out. That’s it.my pet peeve is the people not wearing it over their nose.
Rob,
In fact, the mask rule here in Durham, which has been in effect for some time now, DOES require masks on either public or private property when people who are not members of the same household gather and do not or are not able to socially distance.  These people were doing neither of those two things.
To me at least, the lack of distinction between public and private property makes perfect sense; I don't know of any research that shows that the virus either understands or cares about the distinction, and the ability to contract and then spread the virus while asymptomatic doesn't either.  You can't shoot somebody in your backyard and then claim that it was on private property as a defense; this is different only by degree.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1006 on: June 28, 2020, 10:33:28 AM »

My bet is that when this is all said and done, COVID19 will have a considerably lower impact medically than the swine flu but with a high multiple on the economy.


From Becker's Hospital Review, 3/12/2020:


Between April 12, 2009, and April 10, 2010, the CDC estimates swine flu caused 60.8 million illnesses, 273,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths in the U.S. Globally, an estimated 151,700 to 575,400 people died from swine flu in the first year of the pandemic.

For reference, the COVID-19 pandemic has sickened 1,323 Americans and killed 38, as of March 12. More than 127,00 cases and 4,700 deaths have been reported globally.


Has Becker's issued an update in the last three months?
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1007 on: June 28, 2020, 12:29:10 PM »
Last evening, our next door neighbors hosted a party in their backyard, which has a high fence all the way around and isn't visible from the street for 15-20 people, all in their 20's.  No masks.  No social distancing.  The guests wore masks as they walked from their cars to the yard, as required in Durham, then took them off for the duration of the party.
I wanted to call the police; my wife wouldn't let me.
As I observe things, including news reports from around the country, young people are the problem, and old people are their victims.  I'm in much less danger playing golf with a bunch of old guys than I am with the windows open in my bedroom.

(For reference, my 94 yr. old mother has been moved from her memory care facility to a Covid only unit after a positive test two weeks ago; she has to survive it and have two negative tests before she can return to the memory care unit where she has lived for the past two years.)


I find it hard to believe it’s illegal not to wear a mask on you own private property. Is NC really mandating that?


 I just left a restaurant in NYS. You wear a mask to your table and you wear it when you walk out. That’s it.my pet peeve is the people not wearing it over their nose.
Rob,
In fact, the mask rule here in Durham, which has been in effect for some time now, DOES require masks on either public or private property when people who are not members of the same household gather and do not or are not able to socially distance.  These people were doing neither of those two things.
To me at least, the lack of distinction between public and private property makes perfect sense; I don't know of any research that shows that the virus either understands or cares about the distinction, and the ability to contract and then spread the virus while asymptomatic doesn't either.  You can't shoot somebody in your backyard and then claim that it was on private property as a defense; this is different only by degree.


It says you are required IF, it Is not possible to maintain social distance. It also says while face covers are required no one can be removed from or denied entry for not wearing a mask. The rule is essentially the same here. 99% of the people are wearing a mask indoors in stores here.



“All persons in the City and County of Durham are required to wear a clean face covering any time they are, or will be, in contact with other people who are not household members in public or private spaces where it is not possible to maintain social distance. These spaces include grocery stores, pharmacies, business locations and public transit. While wearing the face covering, it is essential to still maintain social distance insofar as possible since social distancing is the best defense against the spread of the COVID-19.
While face coverings are required, no one will be removed from, or denied entry to, public transit for failure to wear a face covering.“



If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1008 on: June 28, 2020, 01:28:50 PM »

My bet is that when this is all said and done, COVID19 will have a considerably lower impact medically than the swine flu but with a high multiple on the economy.


From Becker's Hospital Review, 3/12/2020:


Between April 12, 2009, and April 10, 2010, the CDC estimates swine flu caused 60.8 million illnesses, 273,304 hospitalizations and 12,469 deaths in the U.S. Globally, an estimated 151,700 to 575,400 people died from swine flu in the first year of the pandemic.

For reference, the COVID-19 pandemic has sickened 1,323 Americans and killed 38, as of March 12. More than 127,00 cases and 4,700 deaths have been reported globally.

Has Becker's issued an update in the last three months?


Kudos for preserving the original statement from Lou — it’s important to save his ridiculously shortsighted prediction for all time.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1009 on: June 28, 2020, 02:17:57 PM »
Hoover,


Is your post a form of Doxing Lou? Why did you object to your real name being posted on The Refuge so vehemently?

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1010 on: June 28, 2020, 03:54:44 PM »
Hoover,

Is your post a form of Doxing Lou? Why did you object to your real name being posted on The Refuge so vehemently?


Did you run get banned from the shuffleboard courts at The Villages? Surely you must have something better to do pass the time than trolling. It helps to lay off the booze from time to time. Try reading a new book or taking up knitting.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1011 on: June 28, 2020, 04:05:42 PM »
I don't get the name calling. Is this nanderson guy who outed you a member of this board? I never liked him anyway and was happy to see you get him banned. I just didn't understand how you got Doxed. It's called a phone book down here at The Villages.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1012 on: June 28, 2020, 06:52:02 PM »
Hoover,


Is your post a form of Doxing Lou? Why did you object to your real name being posted on The Refuge so vehemently?


No sweat, John.  I am honored that in addition to having a retired government worker fact-checking me, a young professional caddie has joined the ranks.  My shtick just doesn't seem to play well with caddies, left wing lawyers, other statists, disgruntled tech workers, and assorted malcontents.  No worries.


Yes, I missed on half of my bet.  C-19 has been far more infectious than I anticipated.  And it would never have occurred to me that some governors would condemn virus-carrying seniors to Medicaid dependent nursing homes full of the most vulnerable senior citizens.  We'll see what the mortality rate is once the pundits start dissecting the numerator and get real on how many Americans contracted C-19, the denominator (estimates are that the actual # is 2-10 times of what is reported).


That the shutdown has caused economic devastation to many Americans is clear.  Impose another lengthy quarantine and it will be much more than the November elections.  Since I am hot, here is another bet- things will quiet down a bit by the end of November.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1013 on: June 28, 2020, 07:28:19 PM »
Rob,
If I wasn't clear, let me try again; these folks were not socially distancing OR wearing masks.  Period.  There was room in that yard to socially distance had they wished; they did not, and clustered around the picnic table were the food and beer were.  It looked like any other backyard cookout, pandemic be damned.

I know the order pretty well; it's been in place for more than three months now.  Young people all over the country are disregarding such orders, and virus cases in the US are exploding accordingly.  It's pretty simple, really.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1014 on: June 28, 2020, 08:32:42 PM »
AG,
By the requirement of Durham, which I posted, if there is adequate space you don’t need to wear a mask. You said there was adequate space. They don’t need a mask. The fact that they didn’t socially distance doesn’t matter.
They only need to have the space to socially distance. The fact that they wore masks into the backyard would indicate to me they know the requirement. I don’t agree with their actions but seems to me they followed the rules.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 09:50:08 PM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1015 on: June 28, 2020, 08:39:21 PM »
I don't get the name calling. Is this nanderson guy who outed you a member of this board? I never liked him anyway and was happy to see you get him banned. I just didn't understand how you got Doxed. It's called a phone book down here at The Villages.


What in the ever living hell are you talking about? Lay off the booze, man. Read a book or do something constructive.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1016 on: June 28, 2020, 08:47:38 PM »
“Yes, I missed on half of my bet.  C-19 has been far more infectious than I anticipated.  And it would never have occurred to me that some governors would condemn virus-carrying seniors to Medicaid dependent nursing homes full of the most vulnerable senior citizens.  We'll see what the mortality rate is once the pundits start dissecting the numerator and get real on how many Americans contracted C-19, the denominator (estimates are that the actual # is 2-10 times of what is reported).”

[Lou, this too has had me mind boggled. In a bad flu season they shut the nursing homes down to visitors but during a pandemic they open the doors to people infected by the virus. The Governor of New York is blaming the CDC.

My son lives in South Carolina as of today 8 of his friends have tested positive. 6 of them have no symptoms. I agree the infection rate is much higher
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1017 on: June 28, 2020, 09:33:50 PM »
*POOF* again.  I'm getting to the point where I don't want to comment about anything online.  Getting old, and going old school.  Send me a telegram sometime.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 08:42:21 AM by John Kirk »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1018 on: June 28, 2020, 10:01:39 PM »
I don't get the name calling. Is this nanderson guy who outed you a member of this board? I never liked him anyway and was happy to see you get him banned. I just didn't understand how you got Doxed. It's called a phone book down here at The Villages.


What in the ever living hell are you talking about? Lay off the booze, man. Read a book or do something constructive.

I can't keep up. Do you now deny what you detailed below ever happened?



A few weeks ago, someone called the GM of my club claiming to be a co-worker of mine (naming my employer) and asserting that I had contracted COVID-19 and was trying to infect others. The caller used a private number and was attempting to disguise his voice. I imagine the caller was one of a few to-remain-unnamed suspects who may or may not be current or former Refugees (or who received personal information from one or more Refugees).

Where was this thread when that happened? I considered leaving this forum when that happened. I did not because fuck whoever did it.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1019 on: June 28, 2020, 10:09:14 PM »
I haven’t denied anything. So was that you?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1020 on: June 28, 2020, 10:17:46 PM »
No it wasn't me. I believe what was done to you was criminal. As criminal as knowingly spreading the virus.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1021 on: June 28, 2020, 10:41:12 PM »
No it wasn't me. I believe what was done to you was criminal. As criminal as knowingly spreading the virus.


Well hopefully no one is doing that either.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1022 on: June 29, 2020, 03:51:55 PM »
AG,
By the requirement of Durham, which I posted, if there is adequate space you don’t need to wear a mask. You said there was adequate space. They don’t need a mask. The fact that they didn’t socially distance doesn’t matter.
They only need to have the space to socially distance. The fact that they wore masks into the backyard would indicate to me they know the requirement. I don’t agree with their actions but seems to me they followed the rules.
Rob, I won't bother to argue the Durham rule with you any more; I know it quite well.  It would truly be an absurd and nearly pointless rule to say no mask is needed if you CAN socially distance but choose not to.  And, if fact, that is NOT the rule here, and everybody in Durham knows it.  Including, of course, the douchebags that live next door to me.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1023 on: June 29, 2020, 08:12:41 PM »
AG, it is the rule. It’s very clear. “Where it is not possible to maintain social distance”. That may not be the intent of the rule but that’s what it says.  It also says no one can denied entry to public transportation while not  wearing a mask even though one is required. “Douchbag’s”? I just got invited to a graduation party two doors down. There is going to be a band and dancing. I’m in upstate New York. We are politely declining, won’t be calling the police or staring over the fence. I’m not judging their choices and they won’t judge mine.


“All persons in the City and County of Durham are required to wear a clean face covering any time they are, or will be, in contact with other people who are not household members in public or private spaces where it is not possible to maintain social distance. These spaces include grocery stores, pharmacies, business locations and public transit. While wearing the face covering, it is essential to still maintain social distance insofar as possible since social distancing is the best defense against the spread of the COVID-19.While face coverings are required, no one will be removed from, or denied entry to, public transit for failure to wear a face covering.“
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 08:19:36 PM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Any course restrictions due to Coronavirus?
« Reply #1024 on: June 30, 2020, 08:03:45 AM »
AG, it is the rule. It’s very clear. “Where it is not possible to maintain social distance”. That may not be the intent of the rule but that’s what it says.  It also says no one can denied entry to public transportation while not  wearing a mask even though one is required. “Douchbag’s”? I just got invited to a graduation party two doors down. There is going to be a band and dancing. I’m in upstate New York. We are politely declining, won’t be calling the police or staring over the fence. I’m not judging their choices and they won’t judge mine.


“All persons in the City and County of Durham are required to wear a clean face covering any time they are, or will be, in contact with other people who are not household members in public or private spaces where it is not possible to maintain social distance. These spaces include grocery stores, pharmacies, business locations and public transit. While wearing the face covering, it is essential to still maintain social distance insofar as possible since social distancing is the best defense against the spread of the COVID-19.While face coverings are required, no one will be removed from, or denied entry to, public transit for failure to wear a face covering.“
Rob, your interpretation of this seems to be that a mask is not required in Durham so long as there is sufficient space for social distancing, BUT that neither a mask nor social distancing are required in such a space; the possibility, rather than the reality, of social distancing is the key in your view of this.

That would be an absurd and meaningless rule, and in fact is NOT the rule here.  I don't know how you read that and arrive at the conclusion that people from different households have the option to neither socially distance nor wear a mask in any space in Durham, but I assure you that you are simply mistaken if that is your reading of that passage.
EDIT after reading the morning news here:  The average age of a positive Covid test in Durham County, like the rest of the country is trending younger and younger; the current average in Durham Co. is 38 years old.  The average age of those who die from Covid, however, remains above 65 years of age.  So a pretty simple calculation and gamble by my next-door-neighbors; "We might get it, we might even spread it, but we aren't likely to be the ones who die from it."
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 08:36:31 AM by A.G._Crockett »
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

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