Golf Magazine 2020 US Top 100?

[Jeff Schley]

So I assume the methodology is the same that we see from the world top 100 list.  Thus we have 49 US courses that made that list.  We also have 30 additional US courses that made the "next 50".

So can we assume that this will be the top 79 courses in the US when they come out with the US list?
Put the world ranking number next as the 2nd number, should be an interesting formatting post:
 

1	1 Pine Valley
2	2 Cypress Point Club
3	4 Shinnecock Hills Golf Club
4	5 National Golf Links of America
5	8 Oakmont Country Club
6	9 Augusta National Golf Club
7	11 Pebble Beach Golf Links
8	14 Sand Hills Golf Club
9	15 Merion Golf Club
10	16 Pinehurst Country Club
11	18 Fishers Island Club
12	19 Chicago Golf Club
13	20 Los Angeles Country Club
14	23 Winged Foot Golf Club
15	24 Pacific Dunes
16	25 Crystal Downs Country Club
17	26 Friar's Head
18	28 Riviera Country Club
19	30 San Francisco Golf Club
20	31 Prairie Dunes Country Club
21	34 Seminole Golf Club
22	38 The Country Club
23	42 Somerset Hills Country Club
24	45 Shoreacres
25	47 Garden City Golf Club
26	49 Southern Hills Country Club
27	50 California Golf Club of San Francisco
28	52 Camargo Club
29	53 Bethpage Black
30	57 Ballyneal
31	58 Kiawah Island (Ocean)
32	62 Winged Foot (East)
33	64 Maidstone Club
34	68 TPC Sawgrass
35	69 Whistling Straits
36	72 Oakland Hills Country Club
37	74 Quaker Ridge Golf Club
38	76 Sleepy Hollow Country Club
39	79 Olympic Club
40	80 Bandon Dunes
41	81 Inverness Club
42	83 Course At Yale
43	84 The Golf Club (OH)
44	85 Muirfield Village Golf Club
45	87 Bandon Trails
46	91 Peachtree Golf Club
47	92 Myopia Hunt Club
48	98 Ohoopee Match Club
49	99 Rock Creek Cattle Company
50-100	Baltusrol (Lower)
50-100	Baltusrol (Upper)
50-100	Bandon (Old Macdonald)
50-100	Bel-Air
50-100	Congaree
50-100	Eastwood Ho!
50-100	Essex County Club
50-100	Harbour Town
50-100	Kittansett Club
50-100	Lawsonia (Links)
50-100	Mid Ocean
50-100	Monterey Peninsula (Shores)
50-100	Moraine
50-100	Oak Hill (East)
50-100	Old Sandwich
50-100	Old Town Club
50-100	Pasatiempo
50-100	Pikewood National
50-100	Piping Rock
50-100	Plainfield Country
50-100	Ridgewood CC (West/East)
50-100	Sand Valley
50-100	Spyglass Hill
50-100	Streamsong (Red)
50-100	The Creek Club
50-100	Valley Club of Montecito
50-100	Wade Hampton
50-100	White Bear Yacht Club
50-100	Wolf Point
50-100	Yeamans Hall

[Bart Bradley]

Yes.  It should look similar to this but the voting won’t be taken until next year which gives some time for panelists to reconsider or to visit more courses.  So it likely won’t be exactly the same.


Best


Bart

[Nigel Islam]

Mid Ocean probably won't make the cut.

[John Kavanaugh]

Given the way this works I have guaranteed Pasa a spot in the top 100. Anyone remember the time I got that guy voted Superintendent of the Year?

[Paul Jones]

Mid Ocean probably won't make the cut.

Since it is not in the US, I won’t think so...

[Jeff Evagues]

Just got the magazine. I find it hard to believe that Sebonack is not one of the top 150 courses.

[Tom_Doak]

Just got the magazine. I find it hard to believe that Sebonack is not one of the top 150 courses.

Our client will not believe that, either!  He will probably blame me, for not rating it higher.


Without a GOLF DIGEST list at hand, it's hard to notice which perennially-listed "championship" courses are now on the outs.  One that jumps to mind is Medinah #3 . . . I am not sure if it was still in the GOLF top 100 last time, but it used to be a staple of these lists.


Erin Hills and Chambers Bay did not make the top 150, either, but might still sneak into the US Top 100.

[JC Jones]

I fully expect a gross over representation and ranking of CBM/Raynor and GCA darlings.  The former is already a problem on the list.  #Fairfield

[Jeff Schley]

Compared the Golf Mag World Golf top 100/next 50 to the last Golf Digest US Top 100.  Surprisingly (or not) there are 40 courses that are ranked by GD, but don't show up on the GM world top 100/next 50.  Here are the exclusions from the GD list ranked in order.  Editing this isn't fun as you know.

Surprises?

EDIT: mistakenly had Pikewood National in list (opps)

 

26	Shadow Creek
28	Honors Course
31	Alotian
32	Gozzer Ranch
39	Sebonack
42	Erin Hills
43	Victoria National
47	Butler National
48	Castle Pines
53	Medinah #3
54	Whispering Pines
57	Scioto
58	Interlachen
60	Oak Tree National
62	Canyata
64	Pete Dye GC
65	Dallas National
66	Kinloch
68	Arcadia Bluffs
70	Estancia
72	Cherry Hills
74	Milwaukee CC
75	Olympia Fields North
77	Quarry at LaQuinta
79	Monterey Peninsula Dunes
80	Congressional
81	Hudson National
83	Calusa Pines
84	Vallhalla
85	Aronimink
87	Boston GC
90	Diamond Creek
91	Club at Black Rock
92	Double Eagle
93	Spring Hill
94	Rich Harvest Farms
96	Preserve GC
97	Blackworld Run
99	Crooked Stick GC
100	Mayacama
N/R	Chambers Bay

[Jeff Schley]

Also here is a list of the US 147 Custodians that don't show up on the GM World top 100/next 50.

Culver Academies Kirtland Wykagyl Streamsong (Blue) Milwakuee CC Dismal River Red Palmetto Austin GC Cape Arundel Saint Louis CC Rustic Canyon Hidden Creek Frnech Lick Prouts Neck Newport CC George Wright Cedar Rapids CC Glen Falls Taconic St. George's, NY Huntingdon Valley Franklin Hills Canterbury Baltimore Five Farms Roaring Gap We-Ko-Pa Mid-Pines

[Tom_Doak]

Compared the Golf Mag World Golf top 100/next 50 to the last Golf Digest US Top 100.  Surprisingly (or not) there are 41 courses that are ranked by GD, but don't show up on the GM world top 100/next 50. 

Jeff:


Thank you for taking the time to do that.  I suspected that the lists were diverging strongly, but there's nothing like a side by side to highlight the differences!  [Of course, some of those listed above will fill out the GOLF Magazine Top 100 in the U.S., which is only up to 79 courses out of the 150.]


Pikewood National was, actually, in the GOLF 150.  I was surprised to see it there, mostly because I was surprised that ten panelists had gotten there . . . I went, because none of my co-authors had been.  And I liked it, but I wouldn't have it ranked 40th in America.

[Jeff Schley]

Apologies ... fixed it to take out Pikewood National, no disrespect to my mining friends and John Denver.

[Jeff Schley]

Comparing the ANTICIPATED GM 2020 Top 100 USA courses which is taken from the World Top 100/Next 50 USA entrants,  to the most recent GM 2017-18 USA Top 100 and these are the 28 that aren't listed. Much closer than the Golf Digest list. Keep in mind there are 21 spots to fill out a full Top 100 USA, so many of these probably will end up populating their list.  My three which I think should be included are: Sebonack, Philadelphia Cricket Club, Honors Course. Have to wait a year.

 

51	Medinah – No 3
61	Shadow Creek
64	Streamsong – Blue
68	Nanea
70	East Lake
71	Newport CC
72	Baltimore CC – Five Farms
73	Cherry Hills
74	Erin Hills
75	Interlachen
76	Sebonack
77	Congressional – Blue
78	The Honors
79	Scioto
81	Fox Chapel
84	Milwaukee CC
86	Philadelphia Cricket Club
87	Torrey Pines – South
88	Boston GC
91	Calusa Pines
92	Colonial CC – Fort Worth
93	Hazeltine National
94	Monterey Peninsula CC – Dunes
95	Gozzer Ranch
97	Aronimink
98	Chambers Bay
99	Mountain Lake
100	Blackwolf Run – River

[William_G]

no Wade Hampton anywhere 


thanks for compiling all those lists

[Tom_Doak]

no Wade Hampton anywhere 

It's possible that less than ten Golf Magazine panelists have seen it.  It's not exactly on the way to anywhere.


It's also possible that other panelists find it more overrated than I do.  I did not vote for it in the top 100 in the world.

[Bart Bradley]

no Wade Hampton anywhere 


thanks for compiling all those lists

Wade Hampton is listed in the Next 50 in the World.

[William_G]

thank you Bart, so many lists so little time LOL


so Congaree and Wade Hampton are the 2 Fazios in the next 50

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I have a question. On my forum, a member posted this:

I have always wondered about how some courses make the list.

"Barely a year old, Ohoopee was seen by enough panelists and scored high enough to hit the current rank at No. 98."

Perhaps in the fine print there is an explanation of "seen by enough." I wonder if 5 of the panelists put the course on their list and thus it made #98.  If that were the case, I am disappointed.

To that, I said this (in red):

I doubt it was just five, but basically, I think it works like this:

• Raters are asked to put courses in buckets. For example "top three," "top ten," "25-50", etc.
• The courses get points for these rankings.
• Both the number of ratings and the average of those ratings are considered. For example, an out-of-the-way course like Tara Iti might be tough for many people to see quickly, so its average ranking might be considered more so than a course like… Oak Hill, which has been around for a long time and which many people have seen and ranked.
• The final ranking is assembled.

For all you or I know, Ohoopee was in the top 25 of six members, which was just high enough for it to sneak on at 98, and it may move up and up and up the list over the coming years as more raters are able to see the course.

This is an educated guess, though, and I'll seek verification and will get back to you with the response(s) I get if they shed new light on what I've written.

Per the last paragraph… am I close? What corrections would you make to what I wrote?
P.S. I'm not saying Ohoopee will rise to be in the top 25, only that its current ranking might actually be lower because it wasn't seen by too many people, and it may rise as more people continue to rate it if they rate it highly.

OP

[Kevin Pallier]

Any idea on when the actual US Top100 list is coming out?

[Adam G]

On the Golf.com podcast with Ran today he said "sixty days"

[Kevin Pallier]

On the Golf.com podcast with Ran today he said "sixty days"

Thanks Adam - I'm keen to see the final list

[Tom_Doak]

For all you or I know, Ohoopee was in the top 25 of six members, which was just high enough for it to sneak on at 98, and it may move up and up and up the list over the coming years as more raters are able to see the course.

This is an educated guess, though, and I'll seek verification and will get back to you with the response(s) I get if they shed new light on what I've written.

Per the last paragraph… am I close? What corrections would you make to what I wrote?
P.S. I'm not saying Ohoopee will rise to be in the top 25, only that its current ranking might actually be lower because it wasn't seen by too many people, and it may rise as more people continue to rate it if they rate it highly.

Erik:


When I ran the list many years ago, I did something like that.  We didn't have as many panelists back then who were chomping at the bit to see every new or out-of-the-way course and quite a few courses were stuck on six or eight votes; there was also one course that was in the list on exactly ten votes, but then one of its supporters died!


My solution was to do the same thing they do in baseball for a guy who just falls short of enough PA to qualify for the batting title - calculate his average if he had come up a few more times without any hits.


It worked well.  A course had to have six or seven strong supporters to squeak into the top 100 with three "zero" votes.  It only happened a couple of times IIRC, and in those cases the course was ranked even higher the next time once more panelists had seen it.


With more panelists now, I don't believe they do this anymore, and ten votes means ten votes.  The former editor of the list mentioned in his writeup a couple of years ago that he had flown to Thailand (expenses paid) to make sure a course had ten votes so it would be eligible for the list - and that's one reason he's not in charge anymore.  But there is still a bit too much of "pre-selection " going on, where the editors or fellow panelists make sure at least ten panelists see certain new candidates, which is kind of like winking at them that they ought to vote favorably.

[jeffwarne]

It will be quite interesting to see how near future Rankings lists are handled ths year.
Every course out here on eastern LI has been crazy busy and most have allowed no unaccompanied play this year.
We have allowed no rater play this season as we dont' even have capacity for employees or caddies to play, much less any unaccompanied play.
i guess some are allowing rater play as I do still get requests, but not nearly the usual volume of past years.
Normally my inbox is exploding this time of year with requests for unaccompanied, comp, charity, and rater play as we approach the fall.
This year, no one is leaving so I have no visibility on when non member unaccompanied play could resume, and the days are getting shorter.

[David Wuthrich]

Agree Jeff, it will be interesting since this is a abnormal year!

[Steve Lapper]

For all you or I know, Ohoopee was in the top 25 of six members, which was just high enough for it to sneak on at 98, and it may move up and up and up the list over the coming years as more raters are able to see the course.

This is an educated guess, though, and I'll seek verification and will get back to you with the response(s) I get if they shed new light on what I've written.

Per the last paragraph… am I close? What corrections would you make to what I wrote?
P.S. I'm not saying Ohoopee will rise to be in the top 25, only that its current ranking might actually be lower because it wasn't seen by too many people, and it may rise as more people continue to rate it if they rate it highly.

Erik:


When I ran the list many years ago, I did something like that.  We didn't have as many panelists back then who were chomping at the bit to see every new or out-of-the-way course and quite a few courses were stuck on six or eight votes; there was also one course that was in the list on exactly ten votes, but then one of its supporters died!


My solution was to do the same thing they do in baseball for a guy who just falls short of enough PA to qualify for the batting title - calculate his average if he had come up a few more times without any hits.


It worked well.  A course had to have six or seven strong supporters to squeak into the top 100 with three "zero" votes.  It only happened a couple of times IIRC, and in those cases the course was ranked even higher the next time once more panelists had seen it.


With more panelists now, I don't believe they do this anymore, and ten votes means ten votes.  The former editor of the list mentioned in his writeup a couple of years ago that he had flown to Thailand (expenses paid) to make sure a course had ten votes so it would be eligible for the list - and that's one reason he's not in charge anymore.  But there is still a bit too much of "pre-selection " going on, where the editors or fellow panelists make sure at least ten panelists see certain new candidates, which is kind of like winking at them that they ought to vote favorably.

The ballots are done, voted on and submitted this week. Now Ran is tasked with tabulating them (this is why they pay him the big $$ :`).


It is indeed an interesting year as nearly no foreign panelists were able to travel to see any US courses since March, unfortunately having to rely on past visits and in some cases, courses that have seen considerable work to them. My speculation is that'll cut both ways in many cases.


 Tom, your statement about "pre-selection" is an interesting one. I can recall being urged by multiple people to go see the likes of Ballyneal, Sebonack, Dismal Red, and Streamsong Blue, with the latter two for an eventual ratings vote. Apparently "winking" is not in the eye of the beholder?