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John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« on: November 20, 2019, 08:58:04 AM »
I had pretty much given up on Golf Magazine, but this week received the latest edition. I've not managed to read it all, but there are 50 pages devoted to golf courses and architecture. What a refreshing change. It's also safe to say this list is much closer to reflecting my tastes. There is a list of raters included (many names should be familiar here) as well as an explanation of the methodology.

Some notable changes in the list:
Cal Club up 23 spots to #50
Swinley Forest up 32 sports to #55
Ballyneal up 29 spots to #57
Rye from unranked to #67
Prestwick up 25 spots to #75
Sleepy Hollow from unranked to #76
Yale from unranked to #83
Bandon Trails from unranked to #87
De Pan from unranked to #88
Myopia from unranked to #92
Royal Melboure East from unranked to #96
Ohoopee debuts at #98

Congratulations, Ran. This is a huge improvement.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 09:07:06 AM »
Is there anything online yet?  Maybe they delay that a month to give paper subscription time to read first
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 09:20:20 AM »
All good. But I still want to know which course is the 148th Custodian. :)


Ira

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 09:26:49 AM »
What 7 courses got knocked out to make room for the previously unranked?

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 09:37:19 AM »
Is there anything online yet?  Maybe they delay that a month to give paper subscription time to read first


https://www.golf.com/best-golf-courses-top-100-courses-world-2020-2021/
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 09:50:38 AM »
Myopia, and Rye unranked previuosly...oh my


Great job Ran!


GOLF Magazine and Golf.com are making great strides under Howard Millstein-beautiful paper in the new Magazine as well as high quality content both online and hard copy.
Deep pockets and a passion for golf of course help, and Ran's experise is yet another example of GOLF's committment to being the best. Terriffic to see real authoritative and high quality features about golf's best players, teachers and courses without all the real estate driven drivel so prevalant in other publications.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 08:30:35 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 10:24:47 AM »
With apologies I do not remember that hole at Prairie Dunes.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 11:46:04 AM »
I really enjoyed Ran's corresponding article detailing the trends in the rankings over the years. GOLF Magazine is in good hands with Ran's oversight.
H.P.S.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 11:55:19 AM »
I am in full agreement with thanks to Ran.  All those additions seem great.  But, asking the question again, what courses got dropped in ranking--or removed from the list?

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 12:13:02 PM »
Can Ran's influence already have been felt, i.e. made manifest in the rankings, and the rise of some notables/favourites?
To be honest, I'm not sure if I want the answer to be 'yes' or 'no'.
Peter

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 12:13:52 PM »
I am in full agreement with thanks to Ran.  All those additions seem great.  But, asking the question again, what courses got dropped in ranking--or removed from the list?


They did not provide a complete list, that I saw.  There are a few asterisks on their list of the Next 50 of courses that used to be in the top 100, including Baltusrol (Lower), Oak Hill (East), Naruo, Tokyo GC, and Shanqin Bay - which was demoted for currently only having 17 holes.


But that doesn't account for some of the others that disappeared.  I don't have the 2017 list handy, but courses such as Ayodhya Links and Oitavos Dunes are conspicuously not mentioned anywhere.  Perhaps they just didn't have enough votes, after many of their supporters were dropped from the panel.

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 12:18:19 PM »
I am in full agreement with thanks to Ran.  All those additions seem great.  But, asking the question again, what courses got dropped in ranking--or removed from the list?


I'd need to double-check but I believe those that dropped include:


Baltusrol Lower
Oitavos Dunes
Ayodhya Links
Tokyo
European Club
Valderrama
Ganton
Yas Links
Royal Porthcawl
Oak Hill
Shanqin Bay (possibly for the closed hole)

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 12:21:17 PM »
All good. But I still want to know which course is the 148th Custodian. :)


Ira


And now there are two of us!!
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2019, 12:25:40 PM »
Bulldog! Bulldog!
Bow, wow, wow
Eli Yale


Congrats!!!!!!


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 12:32:02 PM »
Is there anything online yet?  Maybe they delay that a month to give paper subscription time to read first


https://www.golf.com/best-golf-courses-top-100-courses-world-2020-2021/

Interestingly this link does not want to show me the top 10. Apparently it was a golf.com website issue now fixed.

Off hand it seems too NY heavy.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 12:47:44 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 12:41:18 PM »
Forget about the course ratings, I'm far more curious about the bio of a 52 year old who has the time and dosh to play 191 courses annually.   And those are just averages, mind you.

To keep this architecture-related, I still don't get Bandon Dunes and to a lesser extent The Ocean Course. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 12:51:51 PM »

Does anyone have it?


It was there, just a scrolling issue - https://www.golf.com/best-golf-courses-top-100-courses-world-2020-2021/?from=1&to=10

I eventually got it. Their website must be being hit hard, as I keep getting errors as I browse more.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 05:17:38 PM »


GOLF Magazine is making great strides under Howard Millstein-beautiful paper in the new Magazine as well.

Golf Digest?.....sinking fast.


I do credit Ran for shaking up the panelists and identifying some obvious flaws in the ratings. With that said, Howard Millstein is an obvious businessman with quality taste. He's also taping into a style that fits the multi generational reader of the magazine.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 05:17:50 PM »
Bulldog! Bulldog!
Bow, wow, wow
Eli Yale


Congrats!!!!!!


Congrats to Yale.  Love the place.


Coincidentally I was just buffing up my Yale photo album from visits about 5-6 years ago and it is ready for viewing:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Yale/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 05:43:09 PM »
Congrats to Ran on the updated ranking.


Here’s his accompanying article:


https://www.golf.com/top-one-hundred/courses/2019/11/20/deep-dive-golf-top-100-world-ranking/
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 06:05:34 PM »
Wow!  This list (including the next 50) leaves me with a lot of questions. 


I will say that the most laugh out loud moment was seeing Lawsonia Links in the World Top 150 golf courses.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 06:22:23 PM »
Myopia, and Rye unranked previuosly...oh my


GOLF Magazine is making great strides under Howard Millstein-beautiful paper in the new Magazine as well.
Deep pockets and a passion for golf help.


Golf Digest?.....sinking fast--though I hear Outpost rater memberships are up....


I am very much against the pay for play rater scheme (formerly of Golfweek and now Golf Digest as well).  I'll have more to say on that later.  The new Golf magazine is certainly a welcome improvement and I commend the work of the new owners and Ran as well.  I know there was a big issue with bribery of panelists and panelists profiting off of their being on the panel in the past and that several coursers are gone from the list and the panel is currently quite small as a result of that.  I wish Golf Digest would restructure their panel and system as well (*cough* Rich Harvest Farms and Double Eagle *cough*).


That being said, Im not sure the panel in its current form necessarily operates without perceived conflict of interest.  Ian Andrew is on the panel and Stanley Thompson is very well represented, perhaps overly so?  Tom Doak rejoined the panel and he has more courses in the top 100 than any other modern designer, including a staggering jump for Ballyneal (not sure how many Ballyneal members are on the panel, at least a couple).  Don Mahaffey is on the panel and Wolf Point is inexplicably in the Next 50.  Im not saying Mr. Mahaffey isnt a well traveled student of architecture, it just raises questions.  Likewise Gil Hanse and his potential conflicts.  Golf magazine should be commended for publishing their panelist names and being open about those potential conflicts.


Im sure panelists cant vote for their own courses if they have any and there are other chinese walls in place.  But to my larger point, every panel will have warts and issues and conflicts and none of these rankings should be taken without context, deemed superior or more noble to others.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 06:23:18 PM »
Hooray!

Finally, a list that moves the "sacred cow" Pebble Beach out of the Top10 in the World!

Well done Ran.

Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Magazine Top 100 World List - thanks, Ran
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 06:31:58 PM »
For some reason I could not get the link to work on the Golf.com website so if anyone else has the same issue here is an alternative link to view the ranking.


https://www.planetgolf.com/rankings/worldwide/golf-magazine-world-top-100/2019

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