[Ronald Montesano]

Wire services are reporting a sizable bid for development of Canada's TNGC (G&T Fazio), outside Toronto. The members will decide when the puck slides and the snow flies.


For those who have played it, worked on/at it, or live in the land of the Maple Leaf, what would its loss mean to gca and Canadian golf?

[Tom_Doak]

Loss to golf architecture:  not much.


Loss to Canadian golf?  The course was always a big deal in Canada, though I suspected it was about who were members [which included most of the major players in the sport there] since I didn't see it in the design.


Irony:  for years it was #1 in Canada, and not long after it fell from the top spot, it may go NLE.  I guess rankings DO matter. 

[Adam_Messix]

The amounts of money that they have been throwing around for golf courses in the GTA are goofy.  $412 million (CAD) for York Downs was crazy.  The funny thing is that there is a reasonable amount of open space in the area around Coppinwood and Goodwood, an area that seemed to me to be not too difficult to get into the city.  It makes you wonder how much a place like Glen Abbey or Mississauga in a prime area is really worth. 


I referred to the National as Jupiter Hills North.  The courses (might as well throw the Village in here as well) have similar personalities in that they punish less than stellar golf shots and have some really severe putting surfaces.  I actually enjoyed my visit there a couple of years ago and hope they don't give in to the money. 

[Peter Pallotta]

I’ve chatted during rounds with golfers who have played three No. 1 courses in  Canada (at some point) ie the National, St George’s and Cabot Cliffs.
Same types of golfers, ie average.
Very different types of No.1 courses, ie penal, classic/strategic and resort, respectively.
Never understood how the ‘same’ golfers can rank such ‘different’ courses as the best.
As Michael Corleone said to his aging mother: Times change.
And yes: Pine Valley, Augusta and Pebble. Maybe the same thing: but ‘time’ seems more compressed here.

[Mark_Fine]

Great test of golf but NOT the greatest golf course in my opinion.  Way overrated but I am sure it would still be missed.  Lots of history there. 

[Keith Phillips]

I was a member there 20 years ago and thought it was really good, but not 'great'.  Interestingly, I had buddies at St. George's and Toronto and Beacon Hall who all felt The National was #1, but I actually preferred St. George's.  I thought the difficulty factor was overrated as well, as my handicap was never lower than the years I was posting scores from The National.  Interesting to see Jupiter Hills thrown into the mix - both George Fazio designs - I'm actually a member at JH now and think it is considerably harder than The National - I also think it's better.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Housing Developer Offers $120 Million For Top Canadian Course



https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/10/22/housing-developer-offers-120-million-for-top-canadian-course

[Wayne_Kozun]

Here is a direct link to the story cited in the Shack article:  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/golf/article-national-golf-club-of-canada-latest-course-threatened-by-urban-sprawl/


And here is Lorne Rubenstein's reminisces of "The Nash" [size=78%]https://scoregolf.com/blog/lorne-rubenstein/national-treasure/[/size]


This is happening to a number of courses in the Toronto area.  It isn't because the golf course market is very weak, it is because the real estate market continues to BOOM and the opportunity cost of not developing the land is too high.  So far this has happened to courses that are in the city of Toronto (at least not in the last 50 years or so) as that would be very intersting as there is a deferred tax angle that would have to be dealt with.


It is surprising that this is happening to The National where many/most of the members probably don't need an extra $300k.  But many of them may find the course to hard to play on a regular basis and may belong to other clubs that are more fun to play.

[Wayne_Kozun]

The amounts of money that they have been throwing around for golf courses in the GTA are goofy.  $412 million (CAD) for York Downs was crazy.  The funny thing is that there is a reasonable amount of open space in the area around Coppinwood and Goodwood, an area that seemed to me to be not too difficult to get into the city.  It makes you wonder how much a place like Glen Abbey or Mississauga in a prime area is really worth. 

Uxbridge not too difficult to get to?  It is a good hour long drive to get from downtown to those courses - IMHO they are too far if you live in the city.  That's what makes places like St. Georges, Rosedale, Weston, Scarboro, Islington, Lambeth, Toronto GC, etc more attractive.

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