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Peter Pallotta

Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« on: July 07, 2019, 09:25:16 PM »
As the Scottish Open approaches I was online searching for
a better look at Tom's course, and on youtube found two half hours with Rick Shiels playing the course with Peter Finch (two youngish British golf instructors/pros). Have never done this before so don't know if it is looked upon favourably or as OT, but I thought the 'playing perspective' quite compelling.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dnKkhX1VR0


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QM-3GYIyvg




« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 09:29:21 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Brent Carlson

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 10:38:11 PM »
Great stuff Peter.  That certainly is more than I have ever seen of the course.  It looks fantastic.  Is the land north of Muirfield and west of Archerfield available for another course?  There appears to be room for another 18.  Talk about amazing links land...


 Thanks for the post.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 10:59:19 PM by Brent Carlson »

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 08:32:27 AM »
These are two local Manchester lads (PGA pros) who are making a great living from their You Tube golf channels. They both go for lessons with the same golf coach as Michael Wharton-Palmer and myself - Dan Whittaker.




« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 08:37:06 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Michael Moore

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 10:11:45 AM »
Only on GolfClubAtlas does one have to apologize for suggesting that golf courses should be played and enjoyed.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Peter Pallotta

Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 10:23:29 AM »
Ha ha - it's true!
I thought: 'shouldn't it be a couple of architecture nerds walking alongside Tom to discuss what he intended with the design instead of two very good golfers having a match over the golf course as it actually exists?'
Then I saw the bits that had Rick calling the course 'breath-taking' and suggesting that Carnoustie would be hard pressed to top it and I thought 'oh good, at least there's a rating & ranking involved'.
I suppose the only thing that would've made it *not* OT is if the course hadn't even been built yet -- you know, if it was just in the planning stage and folks were already proclaiming it a 9 and the best new course of 2021....

PS - for the feel and the look and the shots called for and the recoveries offered: my goodness, for my tastes, the whole course but holes 9 & 10 especially seem to say 'golf' so absolutely perfectly.


« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 11:37:43 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Thomas Dai

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 03:04:00 PM »
There is some drone etc footage on the video link below that’s likely to have a few folks, me included!, wishing for a visit.
As an aside I’ve heard that the mowing lines and the width generally is very different now, ie narrower, than the way the course was originally designed.
If this is the case perhaps someone with knowledge and skill could post some then-and-now overheads.
Atb



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVJ8xgWFjis[/size]


David Jones

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 09:48:35 AM »
https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/7/8/first-look-renaissance-club-host-of-the-asi-scottish-open


Hi David, Geoff has linked there to a review I did on my site a couple of year's ago. Will be very interesting to see how it plays this week. The weather is currently very miserable - cold and wet. Hopefully it will buck up for the weekend but could be a few tough days until then. It's not a good look for the local tourism to have professional golfers with full thermals and woollen hats on in the middle of a Scottish Summer.......


Here's a little interview I did with Tom Doak a couple of week's ago previewing the event too -

[/size]www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/tom-doak-renaissance-scottish-open[size=78%]

I used my right to roam to have a walk around the course at the weekend and it was looking in great shape.




William_G

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 09:49:01 AM »
fun vids Peter
It's all about the golf!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 10:28:51 AM »
Thanks for the link, David J.
It was an interesting read.
That's what struck me about the videos I posted. I don't know how long ago they were shot, and no doubt as you say the rough is now much thicker etc. But, having no other of Tom's courses to compare it to save through similar tours/videos (having never actually played one), it still felt to me like a TD course - the angles, the greens (if 'ramped up' a bit), the recovery options, the choices, the finishing work, the draped gently over the land aesthetic etc. Which is to say: that setting aside what Tom himself notes, ie that his work in general hasn't been aimed at 'testing' the best in the world, it's neat that good architecture can do that very thing, as at Sebonak and now Renaissance (and at other of his courses for players just below that level).

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 11:18:05 AM »
Peter,


I see it differently. The Renaissance Club is not a “Tom Doak course”. No, it is the Renaissance Club, a course with its own character, unlike any other course Tom has built that I have played.


The whole of traveling is to see something different. Why else should one get on a plane?


Simply put, Renaissance is worth a special visit. It has its own, unique character.
Tim Weiman

David Jones

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 11:22:58 AM »
Thanks for the link, David J.
It was an interesting read.
That's what struck me about the videos I posted. I don't know how long ago they were shot, and no doubt as you say the rough is now much thicker etc. But, having no other of Tom's courses to compare it to save through similar tours/videos (having never actually played one), it still felt to me like a TD course - the angles, the greens (if 'ramped up' a bit), the recovery options, the choices, the finishing work, the draped gently over the land aesthetic etc. Which is to say: that setting aside what Tom himself notes, ie that his work in general hasn't been aimed at 'testing' the best in the world, it's neat that good architecture can do that very thing, as at Sebonak and now Renaissance (and at other of his courses for players just below that level).


Thanks Peter,


I'm up to 5 Doaks now - Sebonack, Streamsong, St Andrew's Beach and Barnbougle being the others. The Renaissance intimidates me from the tee in a way the others don't, but once you get past that (quite literally) and 150 yards from the green it has a lot of Doak about it.


I just found it a little too tough for my abilities, and as a result don't get as much pleasure out of as I do from the others but that's maybe me being a little selfish in my appreciation!

Sean_A

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 11:33:14 AM »
David

To be fair, Renaissance is a fairly difficult driving course because a missed fairway is simply not to be done.  I will never forget finding at least two groups of bunkers at least 30ish yards into the rough...a bit like islands in the sea which are just stumbled upon.  I still think there are a few holes which really don't have a good angle of approach because of the rough.  Like you, I found Ren a bit too difficult.  That said, it was one of the best conditioned courses I have ever seen. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 12:30:31 PM »
David J’s article with Tom Doak contains this sentence -


[color=rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.701961)]The course is now about half as wide as when I built it. They stopped mowing large portions of fairway a few years ago to prove that the course was a tough test, though I thought the length and difficulties around the greens would take care of most of that.’[/color]


Looking forward to watching play on Thursday morning.
Atb

Daryl David

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 02:55:21 PM »
David J’s article with Tom Doak contains this sentence -


[color=rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.701961)]The course is now about half as wide as when I built it. They stopped mowing large portions of fairway a few years ago to prove that the course was a tough test, though I thought the length and difficulties around the greens would take care of most of that.’[/color]


Looking forward to watching play on Thursday morning.
Atb


This makes me a bit sad. I was at the Renaissance Club a week after it opened and was blown away. Loved it. Hate to see the original corridors lost. That said, it is a private club and if that’s what the members want, then so be it.

MClutterbuck

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 06:09:33 PM »
Great stuff Peter.  That certainly is more than I have ever seen of the course.  It looks fantastic.  Is the land north of Muirfield and west of Archerfield available for another course?  There appears to be room for another 18.  Talk about amazing links land...


 Thanks for the post.


Is at least part of that land owned by the HCEG? Am I crazy in believing I have seen plans for a second course there?


Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2019, 10:53:07 PM »
Michael Bamberger wrote about this land and possibly another course in "To the Linksland" in 1991. I'm still holding my breath but from what I understand, there is not enough land to route 18 exceptional holes.

David Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 01:36:05 AM »




‘Is at least part of that land owned by the HCEG? Am I crazy in believing I have seen plans for a second course there?’



A member at HCEG told me about 18 months ago that there was a committee set up to look at the feasibility for a second course on the land that you refer to on the north-east side of the course.


One of the main impetuses for the committee’s establishment was a concern that the decision to expand the membership to include women would increase the level of play on the course and a second course would help alleviate that.


When I met him 6 months ago he said the committee’s report had been compiled but the concerns on play had declined so it wasn’t getting too much of a push. Some were of the view that opening an inferior course could diminish the overall reputation of the club. I’m not sure if they got as far as a routing though.

Amol Yajnik

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 09:17:55 PM »
Tom Doak will be in the booth tomorrow at 9 AM Eastern time during the 1st round of the Scottish Open per Rich Lerner on Twitter.

David Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2019, 06:29:23 AM »
Judging by the scores it looks like the players are enjoying the combination of no wind and soft greens......

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2019, 06:56:17 AM »




‘Is at least part of that land owned by the HCEG? Am I crazy in believing I have seen plans for a second course there?’



A member at HCEG told me about 18 months ago that there was a committee set up to look at the feasibility for a second course on the land that you refer to on the north-east side of the course.


One of the main impetuses for the committee’s establishment was a concern that the decision to expand the membership to include women would increase the level of play on the course and a second course would help alleviate that.


When I met him 6 months ago he said the committee’s report had been compiled but the concerns on play had declined so it wasn’t getting too much of a push. Some were of the view that opening an inferior course could diminish the overall reputation of the club. I’m not sure if they got as far as a routing though.


I believe at least a preliminary routing was done.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2019, 07:13:32 AM »
The announcers have said "Doak" and "Tom Doak" at least 20 times in the first 45 minutes of the USA telecast. Over-Under from the USA/Canada border is 45 by telecast's end.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2019, 07:32:52 AM »
As Amol notes above, Doak will be on Golf Channel with Rich Lerner at 9:00 am eastern.


Bob

Kalen Braley

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2019, 08:56:03 AM »
Stenson just did an interview and implied the course design features were closer to target golf and had hoped to play something more similar to links golf in preparation for next week...


P.S.  Tom just finished up his interview, nice job!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:18:42 AM by Kalen Braley »

John Kirk

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Re: Maybe OT - A good look at the Renaissance Club
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2019, 09:25:35 AM »
All positive thoughts this morning...

The course looks great.  Looks like a nice day to play golf.  The Firth of Forth is glassy smooth.


Tom's short interview with Rich Lerner was excellent.  Lots of information shared in a relaxed fashion.     

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