[Bill Brightly]

With all of the discussion of the mowing lines at Bethpage Black and references to magazine rankings, I thought it would be interesting to take a fresh look at Ran's 147 Custodians of the Game. Since it is written far better than I could ever hope to write, here's part of Ran's introduction:


..."These are courses where you aren't mean to hunt for balls in tall grass (sorry Prairie Dunes.) They must be walkable (sorry Kapalua.) The focus is on features that are fun to play every day (sorry Carnoustie.) As a consequence, width, playing angles and strategy are paramount. This is the time-tested recipe for pleasurable golf among all classes of golfer. Courses that struggle to reach 40 yards in fairway width are absent (sorry Portrush.) So too are courses with poor mow lines that preclude balls from running into bunkers (sorry Bethpage Black.) Courses that have influenced, or should influence!) the direction of architecture are prized."


"If the architecture is not interesting at 6200 yards, there is no chance it will be more interesting at 7400 yards. Distance and toughness are far less meaningful of a design's worth than the simple test of how badly one wishes to play the course on a regular basis. ...Ask yourself after a round: are you worn out or energized?"


To me, this gets at the essence of what can be called truly excellent golf course architecture. I wonder what other courses should be considered for this list?


https://golfclubatlas.com/147-custodians-of-the-game-year1/




 

[Thomas Dai]

Nice thread Bill.
Bracket (....) additions in the text could be construed as commencing an Anti-Custodians listing! A thread in itself perhaps.
Not sure I agree with insertion of Carnoustie though. Eminently playable, even fun, if the appropriate tee is chosen.

Atb


Later edited. Apologies for the original oversight.

[Bill Charles]

Very insightful Bill, I think some should read this daily!

[Tim Gallant]

Nice thread Bill.
Your bracket (....) additions in the text could be construed as commencing an Anti-Custodians listing! A thread in itself perhaps.
Not sure I agree with your insertion of Carnoustie though. Eminently playable, even fun, if the appropriate tee is chosen.


Atb

Thomas,


Looking back, I believe Ran added the bracket text in himself. More just to illustrate the point than to single out one particular course.


The 147 is always fun to go back on and read. I believe Ran said he would add one course a year to align with the number of Open Championships...which course will it be this year?!

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for pointing this out Tim.
Apologies to Bill.
My opinion hasn’t on C’noustie is still the same though:)
Atb

[Jim Nugent]

I'm pretty sure Ran does not consider those 147 courses as the best in the world.  Pine Valley is not on it.  Neither is CPC or Oakmont or Tara Iti. 

Bill, are you saying that you think these are the best 147 courses?  Or that the criteria Ran laid out should serve as the measuring sticks when ranking courses?

I'm curious, e.g., whether Pine Valley or CPC would make your list of the world's best 147 courses?   

[Michael Felton]

I'm pretty sure Ran does not consider those 147 courses as the best in the world.  Pine Valley is not on it.  Neither is CPC or Oakmont or Tara Iti. 

Bill, are you saying that you think these are the best 147 courses?  Or that the criteria Ran laid out should serve as the measuring sticks when ranking courses?

I'm curious, e.g., whether Pine Valley or CPC would make your list of the world's best 147 courses?   

Shinnecock and Augusta are also not on the list. It's an interesting one. Haven't had the pleasure of Augusta, but I have played PV and Shinnecock. Both are spectacular. Winged Foot isn't on there either and I think has significant architectural value. NGLA on the other hand might be the most fun golf course I've played and that's right up there.

[Bill Brightly]

Jim, my title was pure click bait; tongue in cheek for those who rely on magazine rankings (done by others...) to decide what courses are worthy of high praise. As a contrast, I simply posted Ran's 147 courses, his "custodians of the game" and directly quoted from his introduction. My hope is that people go back and read his full intro and consider the courses that Ran lists, and why. There is a lot to ponder in his words.


As Michael points out, Augusta is not on the list. Hmm, I wonder why? Perhaps it is no longer a custodian?


I have two courses for Ran consider when he adds another course to his list: Elie, because I love the way the course melds into the town, it is fun links golf, and how incredibly cool is it that the starter uses a submarine periscope to tell people on the tee that it is safe to tee off?


The other is Ridgewood  (NJ) because I think it was Tillnghast's best original work. He deserves another course. In my opinion, he never got great sites to work with but he built amazing courses with what he had. His green complexes are superb and he used limited land movement to maximum effect. Best set of par fives I've ever played, all the second shots are partially blind, so he makes you think. If I wasn't raised on a MacRaynor course, Tilly would be my favorite ODG.

[Mark_Fine]

Great list and perfect example of why all ranking lists are simply just lists each defined by a subjective set of criteria.  None are right or wrong.  Even the specific criteria for determining each list doesn’t always get followed (pretty typical) as certain aspects of different courses factor in more then others.  Lack of width for example was cited why Portrush was left off yet Prestwick which has some of the narrowest fairways I have ever seen is ranked highly.  I love Preswick too, but because of other reasons.  And Portrush is a Doak 10 or close to it in my book.  Again this doesn’t make anyone right or wrong it just leads to interesting discussions and debates which is one of the great things about lists 😊

[Bill Brightly]

I'm pretty sure Ran does not consider those 147 courses as the best in the world.  Pine Valley is not on it.  Neither is CPC or Oakmont or Tara Iti. 

Bill, are you saying that you think these are the best 147 courses?  Or that the criteria Ran laid out should serve as the measuring sticks when ranking courses?

I'm curious, e.g., whether Pine Valley or CPC would make your list of the world's best 147 courses?   

Pine Valley would for sure.  I've been lucky enough to play it several times and it is one of those rare courses that is extremely difficult yet so much fun to play. A course where you don't come close to net par (using your handicap) but still want to go to the first tee as you walk off 18.


I've never played CPC but I think it might crack my top 147. I hear it is a great Raynor routing.   

[Thomas Dai]

It's been said many a time that Rans Preamble to the 147 list is in many ways more important than the list itself.

Read the Preamble.


Indeed read it more than once.


https://golfclubatlas.com/147-custodians-of-the-game-year1/

atb

[OChatriot]

Agree on the preamble. Just perfect.

We all have courses in mind that we think will fit in the list.
Logically I will suggest a French course. France is overlooked as a golfing destination, and I believe Ran would change some of his French selections if he had had the opportunity to discover more. But you cannot go everywhere.

Fontainebleau is just a dream. We played the back nine again Sunday morning in 80 mins with a friend. Tremendous fun among unrivalled beauty.
Boulders, including about 50 in the middle of the half-par 12th. Elevated teeshots, blind shots, tiered greens, greens with big mounds in the middle (presumably because a rock is underneath!), raised, punchbowl,crumpled fairways, driveable par 4s and very long ones. Two par fives in a row. One 600y long, one reachable but with boulders across the fairway and a crazy green. And possibly one of the best finishing holes anywhere.
Not too long, tees next to greens, pine trees and heather, charming old clubhouse and a low profile...etc etc  You want to play there everyday. Utter joy. I've lived 25years in London, but Fontainebleau is at par with the best Surrey heathland courses without a doubt. And they have embraced the clearing of trees and lines too that makes it even better.
Surprise surprise..it was designed by Tom Simpson
https://www.golfdefontainebleau.org/en/the-18/

[Mike Sweeney]

My hope is that people go back and read his full intro and consider the courses that Ran lists, and why. There is a lot to ponder in his words.

As Michael points out, Augusta is not on the list. Hmm, I wonder why? Perhaps it is no longer a custodian?

Bill,


As per Ran's intro, "147 Custodians" is very different than "147 Courses". In reference to your two suggested additions:


1) Elie, because I love the way the course melds into the town, it is fun links golf, and how incredibly cool is it that the starter uses a WWII submarine periscope to tell people on the tee that it is safe to tee off?

I have never been to Elie, but this sounds very "Custodial". Love it.

2) Ridgewood  (NJ) because I think it was Tillnghast's best original work. He deserves another course. In my opinion, he never got great sites to work with but he built amazing courses with what he had. His green complexes are superb and he used limited land movement to maximum effect. Best set of par fives I've ever played, all the second shots are partially blind, so he makes you think. If I wasn't raised on a MacRaynor course, Tilly would be my favorite ODG.

Are we ranking courses, architects, or "Custodians"? Ran makes specific comments in the Introduction to 147 Custodians about "Americanized version of the game", where we continue to chase the Tour over the Member/Player. This overreach seems to have destroyed Augusta National, Winged Foot, Baltusrol, Merion, Bethpage, Shinnecock from ever achieving 147 status!! Why would Ridgewood get a pass?

[Thomas Dai]

Very specific criteria for inclusive are mentioned in the Custodians Preamble, namely -


A course that provides engaging puzzles to solve beats one which does not.

• A course where the ball is encouraged to run beats one where it is not.

• A course where you can carry your bag at anytime beats one where you cannot.

• A course where you can play quickly while walking, beats one where you cannot.

• A course that you can enjoy at all ages beats one where you cannot.

• A course with understated maintenance practices beats one with conspicuous greenkeeping.

• A club that emphasizes the simple game of golf beats one which pursues the trappings of status.

• A course you want to play again and again beats one you only wish to play annually.

• 
  Atb

[Bill Brightly]

Good question, Mike. If you've only seen Ridgewood on TV as it was prepared for the Barclays, you are not seeing the course that the members play. They grow the rough for PGA events but for the rest of the year it is a very manageable 2 1/2 inches. Plus, they have eliminated the short cut of rough along the sides of the fairways, so a slightly offline tee ball will roll to the rough. Guided by Gil Hanse, they eliminated "protective" rough so balls now reach fairway and greenside bunkers. The classic Tillinghast green complexes are the real teeth of the course, so being slightly out of position even in moderate rough makes hitting the green a real challenge. But at least the rough is kept at a length that the golfer THINKS he has a play... The greens are superb, with a wide variety of tiers and slopes.


While they use a composite of the 27 holes for PGA and USGA events, the members play the three nines in rotation. I play there a lot and I still can't rank the nines. They are so balanced. Each nine has what I would call a world class par 4, a couple of fun "breather" par 4's, excellent par 5's that make you thoughtfully plan your play on each shot, and a variety of interesting par 3 holes.


For me, this is about as good as you can get in a parkland setting. I think they've got the maintenance meld down perfectly for the architecture and enjoyable member play. That's why I would nominate it for "custodian" status.

[Jim Nugent]

Agree on the preamble. Just perfect.

We all have courses in mind that we think will fit in the list.
Logically I will suggest a French course. France is overlooked as a golfing destination, and I believe Ran would change some of his French selections if he had had the opportunity to discover more. But you cannot go everywhere.

Fontainebleau is just a dream. We played the back nine again Sunday morning in 80 mins with a friend. Tremendous fun among unrivalled beauty.
Boulders, including about 50 in the middle of the half-par 12th.

Speaking of boulders...

...Fountainebleau is also a world-famous rock-climbing mecca, that draws climbers from all over the globe.  It features a style of climbing called 'bouldering,' which is done (what a shock) on boulders, and involves real hard moves low enough to the ground you don't need a rope.  The boulders in Font are scattered among a forest, and inspired their own grading scale, which is used on boulders around the world. 


Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[OChatriot]

 yes:) and imagine the effort to move them for the course back in 1909...

[Matt Bosela]

Jim, my title was pure click bait; tongue in cheek for those who rely on magazine rankings (done by others...) to decide what courses are worthy of high praise. As a contrast, I simply posted Ran's 147 courses, his "custodians of the game" and directly quoted from his introduction. My hope is that people go back and read his full intro and consider the courses that Ran lists, and why. There is a lot to ponder in his words.


As Michael points out, Augusta is not on the list. Hmm, I wonder why? Perhaps it is no longer a custodian?


I have two courses for Ran consider when he adds another course to his list: Elie, because I love the way the course melds into the town, it is fun links golf, and how incredibly cool is it that the starter uses a WWII submarine periscope to tell people on the tee that it is safe to tee off?


The other is Ridgewood  (NJ) because I think it was Tillnghast's best original work. He deserves another course. In my opinion, he never got great sites to work with but he built amazing courses with what he had. His green complexes are superb and he used limited land movement to maximum effect. Best set of par fives I've ever played, all the second shots are partially blind, so he makes you think. If I wasn't raised on a MacRaynor course, Tilly would be my favorite ODG.

Elie is on the list and deservedly so - it's at #135. 

[Ira Fishman]

I have played 15 on the list (and three more to come in two weeks) which is far less than many here, but I think I have a pretty good sense of how Ran applies his criteria.  Using those criteria--his house, his rules--I suggest that Golspie is a worthy contender.  It hits all of the marks squarely.


I do have some objection to the criteria of being able to carry your own bag.  I prefer to carry, but if a club requires caddies to maintain a good caddie program, that seems consistent with being a Custodian.  Just think Francis Ouimet and the Evans Scholars program.


Ira

[Scott Senior]

Good question, Mike. If you've only seen Ridgewood on TV as it was prepared for the Barclays, you are not seeing the course that the members play. They grow the rough for PGA events but for the rest of the year it is a very manageable 2 1/2 inches. Plus, they have eliminated they short cut of rough along the sides of the fairways, so a slightly offline tee ball will roll to the rough. Guided by Gil Hanse, they eliminated "protective" rough so balls now reach fairway and greenside bunkers. The classic Tillinghast green complexes are the real teeth of the course, so being slightly out of position even in moderate rough makes hitting the green a real challenge. But at least the rough is kept at a length that the golfer THINKS he has a play... The greens are superb, with a wide variety of tiers and slopes.


While they use a composite of the 27 holes for PGA and USGA events, the members play the three nines in rotation. I play there a lot and I still can't rank the nines. They are so balanced. Each nine has what I would call a world class par 4, a couple of fun "breather" par 4's, excellent par 5's that make you thoughtfully plan your play on each shot, and a variety of interesting par 3 holes.


For me, this is about as good as you can get in a parkland setting. I think they've got the maintenance meld down perfectly for the architecture and enjoyable member play. That's why I would nominate it for "custodian" status.

Bill,


Well said...you took the words right out of my mouth.


Scott

[Wayne_Kozun]

Agree on the preamble. Just perfect.

We all have courses in mind that we think will fit in the list.
Logically I will suggest a French course. France is overlooked as a golfing destination, and I believe Ran would change some of his French selections if he had had the opportunity to discover more. But you cannot go everywhere.

Fontainebleau is just a dream. We played the back nine again Sunday morning in 80 mins with a friend. Tremendous fun among unrivalled beauty.
Boulders, including about 50 in the middle of the half-par 12th. Elevated teeshots, blind shots, tiered greens, greens with big mounds in the middle (presumably because a rock is underneath!), raised, punchbowl,crumpled fairways, driveable par 4s and very long ones. Two par fives in a row. One 600y long, one reachable but with boulders across the fairway and a crazy green. And possibly one of the best finishing holes anywhere.
Not too long, tees next to greens, pine trees and heather, charming old clubhouse and a low profile...etc etc  You want to play there everyday. Utter joy. I've lived 25years in London, but Fontainebleau is at par with the best Surrey heathland courses without a doubt. And they have embraced the clearing of trees and lines too that makes it even better.
Surprise surprise..it was designed by Tom Simpson
https://www.golfdefontainebleau.org/en/the-18/

Fontainebleaus looks cool, and I am saying this as someone who hasn't played the course, but it looks like it could be vastly improved with the removal of 1000 or so trees.  Some of the holes look claustrophobic - but maybe that is just the photos and it is different in real life.

[Thomas Dai]

This Treehouses thought process shouldn’t get too hung-up on courses in North America and Europe (note: there are already some courses from outside of North America and Europe included within the 147 listing).

For example, I suspect that if you review the courses that are mentioned Tom Doaks various Confidential Guides to South America, Asia, Aussie/NZ, Africa etc etc (either those already published or soon to be) you’ll find quite a few candidates to potentially be the 148th choice (and in due course the 149th etc etc).

It’s sometimes easy to forget that golf’s a worldwide game.

Custodians can be found all over the globe in all sorts of shapes and sizes.

Atb

[Wayne_Kozun]

This Top 147 list reminds me that there are some glaring omissions from the course profiles on this site, including courses on teh 147 list.


Perhaps the most glaring is Cabot Cliffs. I know Ran has been there - I wonder why there is no course profile of Cabot Cliffs on GCA?

[Bill Brightly]

Elie is on the list and deservedly so - it's at #135.

It is indeed, my bad!  Ran listed Golf House Club first and that threw me. What is it with these UK clubs having two names?

[OChatriot]

[/quote]Fontainebleaus looks cool, and I am saying this as someone who hasn't played the course, but it looks like it could be vastly improved with the removal of 1000 or so trees.  Some of the holes look claustrophobic - but maybe that is just the photos and it is different in real life.
[/quote]

You are absolutely right. And I mentioned the work they did in that respect. Probably not enough yet as it would be good to see the rocky environment hidden in the forest.
I think the pictures were taken before the works though.

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