Australia courses - my take

[Joe_Tucholski]

With all the talk of snakes think I could wear something like this instead of the knee high sock?
https://www.amazon.com/Snake-Gaiters-Protection-Khaki-Large/dp/B00L9KRVCU



 

[Pete_Pittock]

Am still dithering if an Australia trip is still realistic for me. If I go, my planning for King Island is to leave my clubs behind and go commercial, making KI and Tasmania separate trips.


Surprised that Metropolitan had bunker sand problems. Always thought sandbelt courses had natural sand below the surface. Could
the tournament preparations required a different sand for competitors' preference, and you got there during the transition?

[Lukas Michel]

• Metropolitan - NO SAND in the bunkers, which really was an omission.  Hardly any sand, with mud/clay there.  Like hardpan everywhere.  It is a shame too, because more than any other course their bunkers cut deep into the green complexes and the greens are cut right into the bunkers without collars. Nice parkland design, but hard to get over the poor bunker conditions. Played it in 100 degree heat and although not hilly took it's tool on our group.

I would be interested in some Aussie's commenting on this.  Are the bunkers in poor condition or is that how they maintain them there?

I did not play Metropolitan when I visited but enjoyed the fact that on other courses your lie could vary from concrete like firmness to relatively thick sand.  I found myself inventing new ways to escape bunkers that I still find useful 12 years later. 

I caddie and play at the Sandbelt courses on a regular basis and find Metropolitan's bunkers to be the most consistent - although they are probably the most consistently firm. Metropolitan is right at the northern edge of the sandbelt, so it's not blessed with as much sand as the courses closer to Port Phillip. I had a foursome of Americans today that said the exact same thing as Jeff "there's no sand in these bunkers". The trick to very firm bunkers is hitting down hard on the ball with an open club face (it also helps to have a low-bounce wedge). A too shallow strike with not enough speed will have the sole of the club bouncing off the sand into the ball. A steeper and harder strike cuts through the firm sand and pops the ball up in the air. I find these bunkers easier to play than ones with more sand! After teaching my foursome today how to play these shots they no longer had problems. I wish I'd caddied for you, Jeff, when you were down here as I'm sure you would have had a more enjoyable experience if you'd been able to successfully recover from the traps!


The firmness of the sand actually allows for the steep firm faces, intricate shaping and mowing right to the edges of the bunkers that Metropolitan is famous for.

[Brian Walshe]

\
Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

[Jeff Schley]

• Metropolitan - NO SAND in the bunkers, which really was an omission.  Hardly any sand, with mud/clay there.  Like hardpan everywhere.  It is a shame too, because more than any other course their bunkers cut deep into the green complexes and the greens are cut right into the bunkers without collars. Nice parkland design, but hard to get over the poor bunker conditions. Played it in 100 degree heat and although not hilly took it's tool on our group.

I would be interested in some Aussie's commenting on this.  Are the bunkers in poor condition or is that how they maintain them there?

I did not play Metropolitan when I visited but enjoyed the fact that on other courses your lie could vary from concrete like firmness to relatively thick sand.  I found myself inventing new ways to escape bunkers that I still find useful 12 years later. 

I caddie and play at the Sandbelt courses on a regular basis and find Metropolitan's bunkers to be the most consistent - although they are probably the most consistently firm. Metropolitan is right at the northern edge of the sandbelt, so it's not blessed with as much sand as the courses closer to Port Phillip. I had a foursome of Americans today that said the exact same thing as Jeff "there's no sand in these bunkers". The trick to very firm bunkers is hitting down hard on the ball with an open club face (it also helps to have a low-bounce wedge). A too shallow strike with not enough speed will have the sole of the club bouncing off the sand into the ball. A steeper and harder strike cuts through the firm sand and pops the ball up in the air. I find these bunkers easier to play than ones with more sand! After teaching my foursome today how to play these shots they no longer had problems. I wish I'd caddied for you, Jeff, when you were down here as I'm sure you would have had a more enjoyable experience if you'd been able to successfully recover from the traps!


The firmness of the sand actually allows for the steep firm faces, intricate shaping and mowing right to the edges of the bunkers that Metropolitan is famous for.

Thanks Lukas we would have loved you.  I had a young chap named Charlie Wacket, 19 yo and I think a member there.  Great kid as a caddie.

Metro I know is famous for their cliff like bunkers that cut into the greens and posed quite a challenge.  I certainly don't recall playing any course like it with what I would call "no sand" like Metro.  Is this indeed the way they are always kept?  None of the others we played were similar, which caused to me to think perhaps they were waiting on a truck full of sand to distribute.  Would be very unique if this is indeed a feature of the course and as you say, one Americans are used to.  Lovely walk.

[Mark Chaplin]

The only objectionable thing to Australian and New Zealand golf is duel pricing, with foreigners paying far more to play than nationals.

[Andrew Bertram]

It is great you had such a wonderful trip Jeff


I always enjoy Metro's bunkers, always firm and consistent. If you are confident and have the right wedge you can play them well
as Lukas suggests
If you have the wrong club or technique that is not perfect they can be nasty


Tim, October / November is generally too early in the season for too many snakes, and in 7 trips to King Island I have seen 2 snakes and at Barnbougle, 6 trips and I cannot remember seeing a snake


and at the National, over many years I recall seeing 1 snake


Scott, I am up there in a couple of weeks, it would be great to catch up for a beer




 

[Thomas Dai]

As someone who has had the experience of being far too close to both Aussie snakes and elsewhere bears in the past I have no desire to get near either ever again. And certainly no crocs and the like.
As to Aussie snakes, when I mentioned my experience to an Aussie mate with a wicked sense of humour his reply was along the lines of “Aussie snakes ain’t that poisonous. If you want to experience really poisonous snakes visit Parliament”! Ouch!
Atb

[Anthony Butler]

Yikes, I'd rather be confronted by an angry lion than a friendly snake. I am hoping to go in 2020. Do all the courses have them? What about New Zealand?

About 15 years ago I was playing at NSW and ran into an a local indigineous bloke on the 4th hole.

This hole sees the heaviest black snake traffic on the course due to the club reservoir just to the left of the fairway.  As we  walked towards my tee-shot, I remarked we were lucky not too have many brown snakes left on the property since black snakes like to eat them, He said there were still a couple of areas on the course where they could be found..


About two hours later, the same guy appeared out of the bush on the left hand side of the 13th hole  casually holding up a 4-foot snake with an old 9 iron.  He waved me over; "Look mate, found this fella just off the fairway! Check him out..."

As I got closer, I saw he was indeed handling an Eastern Brown Snake. (For those of you not familiar with Australia's poisonous reptiles, even though an Eastern Brown might represent a tasty meal to the larger Black Snake, it is also an animal that could kill a human with just one bite.)


"Yeah mate, quite a few in this little patch here... Stayin' away from the black snakes, I reckon..."


I immediately started taking a more conservative line over the dogleg on this hole..

 

[Tim Gallant]

It is great you had such a wonderful trip Jeff


I always enjoy Metro's bunkers, always firm and consistent. If you are confident and have the right wedge you can play them well
as Lukas suggests
If you have the wrong club or technique that is not perfect they can be nasty


Tim, October / November is generally too early in the season for too many snakes, and in 7 trips to King Island I have seen 2 snakes and at Barnbougle, 6 trips and I cannot remember seeing a snake


and at the National, over many years I recall seeing 1 snake


Scott, I am up there in a couple of weeks, it would be great to catch up for a beer

Thanks Andrew,


Now your stats there - is that going into the rough to find golf balls, or is that being quite conservative? I'll be playing with a few locals hopefully, but at Barnbougle will likely be by myself. Just wondering if I should venture into semi-rough if I see my ball, or just drop one and let it be!

[Anthony Butler]

\
Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.. I would also nominate the 9th, 10th and 11th in that category. Also the second shot on 15. The 12th is a par 3 in which you can't quite see the surface of the hole but you can see the pin and the outlines of the green surface, so not a blind tee shot in my view. 


The 13th is particularly bad... I almost killed a lady on the fairway last time despite waiting over 10 mins on the tee before hitting. Not sure what she was doing all that time, but she wasn't in the mood to ask.

[archie_struthers]

 


Tommy , Tim I'm shoving all in also on blind shots , love em!  Especially if they are tee shots on par fours and fives that are uphill to boot...

[Mike_DeVries]

Jeff,


Nice report on your trip and glad you made it over to KI for Cape Wickham!  Were you with a group? Sorry if I missed that fact - just wondering if your report is only your thoughts or if the group had other thoughts worth noting?  For the record, I like your humble order! 


You flew one of the charter services but there are regular, daily commercial flights to/from KI from Tullamarine and Essendon (older big airport near Tullamarine) airports on bigger planes or Moorabbin (next to Kingston Heath) on King Island Airlines' 10-seaters.  Vortex and other charter services also do a great job of serving King Island, so if you are planning ahead, you shouldn't have an issue.  I have flown back and forth on all of the various options (even in a helicopter once - that was very cool to see everything) and really did not have problems with delays or rough air.  Granted, I am a seasoned traveler that doesn't really get airsick, but I don't ever recall a bumpy ride in or out or any dicey landings, etc.


The snake warnings are really for awareness but I get people's fears.  I beat around in the bush before, during, and after construction and only saw two snakes the whole time and those were hard to see.  Post opening, I did see one sunning on the 14th fairway but he just slithered away and didn't even get close to us, nor us to him.  We had a formal snake class for construction, as we are at least 30-40 minutes from the hospital on the island.  Key thing, though, is that there has not been a serious snake bite on KI in over 35 years and that person still lived.  I think it is good to be careful but don't panic about it.


Wish I had been there with you - been too long since I have been over!
Cheers,
Mike

[Mike_Clayton]

I saw a snake at Cathedral Lodge a few weeks ago - the 4th snake I've seen on an Australian golf course in 50 years. It's a massively over-rated fear.


No sand in the bunkers at Metro? I've played there for 45 years and never found that - but I've seen many Americans struggle with the shots they have to play. As Lukas says you have to adapt your technique to handle the shots you occasionally find.

[Kalen Braley]

I think these last couple of posts are on to something:

35 - Number of known snake bite deaths in Australia from 2000 to 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/more-than-half-australian-snake-bite-deaths-since-2000-occurred-at-victims-home

In the US, that number is estimated at 1,400 to 1,600 per year! 

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/snakes/

[Pete_Pittock]

I think these last couple of posts are on to something:
35 - Number of known snake bite deaths in Australia from 2000 to 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/more-than-half-australian-snake-bite-deaths-since-2000-occurred-at-victims-home
In the US, that number is estimated at 1,400 to 1,600 per year! 
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/snakes/

Populations  USA 325M, AU 25M
Checked Wikipedia and the US has had 23 fatal snakebites since the beginning of 2010, some by "handlers".
The latest one (June 2018) has significance:
Spearfish,  Lawrence County, South Dakota. Walters was playing golf at the Elkhorn Ridge Golf Course in Spearfish. He was looking for a ball in tall grass when he was bitten on the ankle. He was rushed back to the clubhouse in a cart where another employee performed CPR until an ambulance arrived, but was pronounced dead at Spearfish hospital..^[8] .

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff,


Nice report on your trip and glad you made it over to KI for Cape Wickham!  Were you with a group? Sorry if I missed that fact - just wondering if your report is only your thoughts or if the group had other thoughts worth noting?  For the record, I like your humble order! 


You flew one of the charter services but there are regular, daily commercial flights to/from KI from Tullamarine and Essendon (older big airport near Tullamarine) airports on bigger planes or Moorabbin (next to Kingston Heath) on King Island Airlines' 10-seaters.  Vortex and other charter services also do a great job of serving King Island, so if you are planning ahead, you shouldn't have an issue.  I have flown back and forth on all of the various options (even in a helicopter once - that was very cool to see everything) and really did not have problems with delays or rough air.  Granted, I am a seasoned traveler that doesn't really get airsick, but I don't ever recall a bumpy ride in or out or any dicey landings, etc.


The snake warnings are really for awareness but I get people's fears.  I beat around in the bush before, during, and after construction and only saw two snakes the whole time and those were hard to see.  Post opening, I did see one sunning on the 14th fairway but he just slithered away and didn't even get close to us, nor us to him.  We had a formal snake class for construction, as we are at least 30-40 minutes from the hospital on the island.  Key thing, though, is that there has not been a serious snake bite on KI in over 35 years and that person still lived.  I think it is good to be careful but don't panic about it.


Wish I had been there with you - been too long since I have been over!
Cheers,
Mike

Mike,
You or Darius would have had a lot of drinks bought for you as the group overwhelmingly loved Cape Wickham.  It certainly wasn't just myself who loved the site and course. One guy in the group has played 99 of the top 100 (missing ANGC), and he said this course was in his top 5 and exceeds Pebble Beach. In my foursome, another buddy who has played around 70 of the top 100, after pulling up to hole 17 said, "this course has quickly moved into my top 5 of all time."


After our trip was done we briefly went around and talked about our favorite courses and what stood out after playing all of them. What I can remember is:

• The group was split between Royal Melbourne or Cape Wickham being their favorite overall. Conditions at RM the day we played were fabulous and obviously at CW the weather rolled in and out with rain coming down several times during the day with probably 20-25 mph gusts throughout.  RM hosting this year's President's Cup did add to the cache of the visit.
• We tried to take out the conditions of the day to equalize the playing field because no one can control the weather.
• Metro was 100 plus degrees when we played it and our first round, thus in retrospect it was more fair to look at in after playing all the others.  I know many here are saying the bunkers are what they are, but it seemed everyone was not used to that style in the group. Certainly we also found the bunkers more often as they are positioned cutting into the green without collars and yield many balls running off the green into them.  This is a feature many liked, but the sand being so compacted and hard was foreign to the group and rightly or wrongly was seen as a negative.  Hole 14 there stood out as outstanding btw.
• Ocean Dunes played with high winds and seeing as the fairways were not being watered and brown they were fast which led to many lost balls.  Once off the fairway it was just too hard to find the balls in the tall grass. Wind, fast fairways, and tall grass really took away from the lovely setting which was very picturesque. One in the group shot lights out that day somehow with 42 stableford points and he hits a very low draw and didn't seem to have a problem there. When they get their cottages/cabins in the next year or two it will be a very nice complement to CW.
• Some guys played extra golf at Commonwealth while in Melbourne and compared to the other courses it was seen as just OK.  I didn't go there.
• Some guys played Yarra Yarra and said give that course 5 years to mature and it will be on some lists for sure.  I didn't play it myself.
• Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm were helpful to discuss because they were played on consecutive days and the holes tended to run together in people's minds. Both were deemed outstanding, with 2/3 of the group favoring Dunes over LF. I'm a big C&C fan and as I said almost had LF ahead of the Dunes. Perhaps after being spoiled by King Island ocean views so consistently, the group was disappointed there weren't more ocean view holes. Make no mistake both courses did get Top 100 accolades from everyone certainly, but at this level you are deciding which diamonds are best so best to keep it in perspective. I like golfing in the elements myself, but some in the group were running for cover with sporadic rain. I truly believe it adds to the character of the location (like the UK). Most hadn't looked up the website (i didn't) as I like to be surprised by the course when I get there. Everyone noted the LF restaurant which overlooks the ocean from above as their favorite view on the trip.
• As we didn't have forecaddies/caddies at NSW and most didn't get a yardage book, it had quite a few blind shots and with the wind blowing in probably 25 mph gusts the lines off the tees and approaches you couldn't see ended up screwing us.  Hole 3 for example, I was the only one in the group to hit the fairway and I thought I hooked my drive with a 5 wood. 1 was lost and the 2 others were long right behind bushes/trees. Some of these issues would be gone when playing a 2nd/3rd time.  Also 15 and 16 were playing like par 5's our day and very tough, 15 in particular with "crushed" 210 yard drives which still left blind approaches from the fairway.
• Cathedral Lodge from the group was seen as just a good golf course, but the isolation and extremely private club added some allure. It was so hilly and unusual compared to the other courses most had it well down their lists.  However we had a match against members that day and I loved the ambience, thus had it higher for myself.
• The Lakes GC obviously has a huge amount of water hazards which was unique to the lineup.  I know Mike Clayton did some work there to clear trees/brush and I'm thanking him for that, as the tee shots were pretty clear to the eye because of this.  You just had to factor in the water hazards on the back.
• Aussies were very warm and inviting to all in the group everywhere we went, I didn't hear of a single complaint and I certainly had none. You share a love of golf and you have a friend there.

I was with a group and we did indeed take Vortex, who were cautious and watched the weather closely with the pilot informing the group of why we were delayed and his estimate for takeoff (3 hours after schedule) was spot on.  We had three planes, 2 for passengers and 1 for luggage/golf clubs. Great to know there are commercial possibilities as with only 1500 residents that is a lifeline needed.
Mike, well done at CW and also Clayton/Doak for your work at the Dunes course. Again these are my humble opinions and don't claim any special qualifications as a bogey golfer.  However, it truly was the golf trip of my life playing this lineup in 10 days.

[James Bennett]

Jeff mentioned the sun in his initial post, and no-one has mentioned it since.It is a real issue for people from the northern hemisphere, as you can't assume the sun won't burn in the same weather conditions.
Sun tan cream is a must, although physical barriers (long sleeves, hats, gloves, sun glasses) are better.
You can get burnt on cloudy days, and on days when it is only 20 degrees (about 70).Try to be the least burnt member in your golf party, and you'll have a lot better time over a golf week.
James B

[Mike_DeVries]

Jeff,


Nice report on your trip and glad you made it over to KI for Cape Wickham!  Were you with a group? Sorry if I missed that fact - just wondering if your report is only your thoughts or if the group had other thoughts worth noting?  For the record, I like your humble order! 


You flew one of the charter services but there are regular, daily commercial flights to/from KI from Tullamarine and Essendon (older big airport near Tullamarine) airports on bigger planes or Moorabbin (next to Kingston Heath) on King Island Airlines' 10-seaters.  Vortex and other charter services also do a great job of serving King Island, so if you are planning ahead, you shouldn't have an issue.  I have flown back and forth on all of the various options (even in a helicopter once - that was very cool to see everything) and really did not have problems with delays or rough air.  Granted, I am a seasoned traveler that doesn't really get airsick, but I don't ever recall a bumpy ride in or out or any dicey landings, etc.


The snake warnings are really for awareness but I get people's fears.  I beat around in the bush before, during, and after construction and only saw two snakes the whole time and those were hard to see.  Post opening, I did see one sunning on the 14th fairway but he just slithered away and didn't even get close to us, nor us to him.  We had a formal snake class for construction, as we are at least 30-40 minutes from the hospital on the island.  Key thing, though, is that there has not been a serious snake bite on KI in over 35 years and that person still lived.  I think it is good to be careful but don't panic about it.


Wish I had been there with you - been too long since I have been over!
Cheers,
Mike

Mike,
You or Darius would have had a lot of drinks bought for you as the group overwhelmingly loved Cape Wickham.  It certainly wasn't just myself who loved the site and course. One guy in the group has played 99 of the top 100 (missing ANGC), and he said this course was in his top 5 and exceeds Pebble Beach. In my foursome, another buddy who has played around 70 of the top 100, after pulling up to hole 17 said, "this course has quickly moved into my top 5 of all time."


After our trip was done we briefly went around and talked about our favorite courses and what stood out after playing all of them. What I can remember is:

• The group was split between Royal Melbourne or Cape Wickham being their favorite overall. Conditions at RM the day we played were fabulous and obviously at CW the weather rolled in and out with rain coming down several times during the day with probably 20-25 mph gusts throughout.  RM hosting this year's President's Cup did add to the cache of the visit.
• We tried to take out the conditions of the day to equalize the playing field because no one can control the weather.
• Metro was 100 plus degrees when we played it and our first round, thus in retrospect it was more fair to look at in after playing all the others.  I know many here are saying the bunkers are what they are, but it seemed everyone was not used to that style in the group. Certainly we also found the bunkers more often as they are positioned cutting into the green without collars and yield many balls running off the green into them.  This is a feature many liked, but the sand being so compacted and hard was foreign to the group and rightly or wrongly was seen as a negative.  Hole 14 there stood out as outstanding btw.
• Ocean Dunes played with high winds and seeing as the fairways were not being watered and brown they were fast which led to many lost balls.  Once off the fairway it was just too hard to find the balls in the tall grass. Wind, fast fairways, and tall grass really took away from the lovely setting which was very picturesque. One in the group shot lights out that day somehow with 42 stableford points and he hits a very low draw and didn't seem to have a problem there. When they get their cottages/cabins in the next year or two it will be a very nice complement to CW.
• Some guys played extra golf at Commonwealth while in Melbourne and compared to the other courses it was seen as just OK.  I didn't go there.
• Some guys played Yarra Yarra and said give that course 5 years to mature and it will be on some lists for sure.  I didn't play it myself.
• Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm were helpful to discuss because they were played on consecutive days and the holes tended to run together in people's minds. Both were deemed outstanding, with 2/3 of the group favoring Dunes over LF. I'm a big C&C fan and as I said almost had LF ahead of the Dunes. Perhaps after being spoiled by King Island ocean views so consistently, the group was disappointed there weren't more ocean view holes. Make no mistake both courses did get Top 100 accolades from everyone certainly, but at this level you are deciding which diamonds are best so best to keep it in perspective. I like golfing in the elements myself, but some in the group were running for cover with sporadic rain. I truly believe it adds to the character of the location (like the UK). Most hadn't looked up the website (i didn't) as I like to be surprised by the course when I get there. Everyone noted the LF restaurant which overlooks the ocean from above as their favorite view on the trip.
• As we didn't have forecaddies/caddies at NSW and most didn't get a yardage book, it had quite a few blind shots and with the wind blowing in probably 25 mph gusts the lines off the tees and approaches you couldn't see ended up screwing us.  Hole 3 for example, I was the only one in the group to hit the fairway and I thought I hooked my drive with a 5 wood. 1 was lost and the 2 others were long right behind bushes/trees. Some of these issues would be gone when playing a 2nd/3rd time.  Also 15 and 16 were playing like par 5's our day and very tough, 15 in particular with "crushed" 210 yard drives which still left blind approaches from the fairway.
• Cathedral Lodge from the group was seen as just a good golf course, but the isolation and extremely private club added some allure. It was so hilly and unusual compared to the other courses most had it well down their lists.  However we had a match against members that day and I loved the ambience, thus had it higher for myself.
• The Lakes GC obviously has a huge amount of water hazards which was unique to the lineup.  I know Mike Clayton did some work there to clear trees/brush and I'm thanking him for that, as the tee shots were pretty clear to the eye because of this.  You just had to factor in the water hazards on the back.
• Aussies were very warm and inviting to all in the group everywhere we went, I didn't hear of a single complaint and I certainly had none. You share a love of golf and you have a friend there.

I was with a group and we did indeed take Vortex, who were cautious and watched the weather closely with the pilot informing the group of why we were delayed and his estimate for takeoff (3 hours after schedule) was spot on.  We had three planes, 2 for passengers and 1 for luggage/golf clubs. Great to know there are commercial possibilities as with only 1500 residents that is a lifeline needed.
Mike, well done at CW and also Clayton/Doak for your work at the Dunes course. Again these are my humble opinions and don't claim any special qualifications as a bogey golfer.  However, it truly was the golf trip of my life playing this lineup in 10 days.

Jeff,


Many thanks for the additional commentary.  I love to hear everyone's perspective, whether they are low or high handicappers.  Golf is meant to be fun and it is not the same for every golfer, so it is interesting to hear the differences.  It certainly sounds like your group of "golfers" is well-traveled and, to me, that gives them a breadth of experience to compare new courses with ones they have seen.  That the group was tussling between RM and CW is a high compliment and is always nice to hear.  Your trip is an A-list selection and one everyone should try to do at least once in their life - definitely worth it!  Too bad Victoria was closed, as it is my third favorite in the Sand Belt (RM-W and KH) and they have nice dormie rooms and are very hospitable to guests there.  As you noted, the Aussies are wonderful hosts and love the game, and I have always found a friendly golfer to talk about the game, no matter the spot.


Vortex does a great job - perfect for a group and very accommodating to golfers.  Good to have services like theirs to get to these remote (although not "that" remote, only 40 minutes to KI) golf courses that are so fun to play.


Cheers,
Mike

[Matthew Mollica]

Thanks for the detailed comments regarding your trip Jeff. While I find some of the comments in stark contrast to my own experiences and views, it is always stimulating to get the thoughts of passionate & widely travelled visitors to our shores.


As an aside, which three holes did you think were the best holes at Cape Wickham?

[Jeff Schley]

Thanks for the detailed comments regarding your trip Jeff. While I find some of the comments in stark contrast to my own experiences and views, it is always stimulating to get the thoughts of passionate & widely travelled visitors to our shores.


As an aside, which three holes did you think were the best holes at Cape Wickham?

Matt it is just one opinion from one day in the sure to be long glorious history of CW.  Going from memory 17,18 for sure.  Perhaps because they were some of the few highlights for my round?  Really stunning holes where we loitered around with cameras and photos, then started thinking of our shots.  17 had three of the four of us get the wind pushing our shots left.  I had a miracle up and down from the cart path left.
18 speaks for itself IMO.  The first guy to tee off hit a very solid drive but didn't see it land thus he was 30 yards short of his mark on the beach and he played it from the beach back to the fairway.  I hit my best drive of the day and chunked my chip from about 98 yards, but again was able to scramble. You can be conservative off the tee as if you aren't you are screwed. Great match play hole where you are hitting 2nd IMO.

Again from memory I think it was 9 or 10 which was the short downhill par 4 with the ocean in the background.  I hit 5 wood and rolled down almost exactly where one guy crushed his drive.  Felt like I was the smart one for once. I recall the pin being back right and I found that little bunker in front and couldn't get out and took an X. There was a big tier up top and then another below which made for a small target. I really like this hole for it equalizes the big hitters and small hitters, with a delicate pitch to a great back pin on the top shelf.
I know course views don't matter for architecture, but for memorability and enjoyment it sure renders strong photos in each golfers mind. I apologize for it, but I don't think I'm alone in that camp. Ocean views are like a bikini on supermodel vs. a trench coat in a job interview. You should be concentrating on the qualifications, ability, etc.  But you get distracted and probably gets scored a point or two higher because of this distraction and by the end of the interview you say, "great we'll see you on Monday."

[Matthew Mollica]

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Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.. I would also nominate the 9th, 10th and 11th in that category. Also the second shot on 15. The 12th is a par 3 in which you can't quite see the surface of the hole but you can see the pin and the outlines of the green surface, so not a blind tee shot in my view. 


The 13th is particularly bad... I almost killed a lady on the fairway last time despite waiting over 10 mins on the tee before hitting. Not sure what she was doing all that time, but she wasn't in the mood to ask.

Anthony your comments regarding the Moonah course are riddled with innacuracies. Hole numbers are incorrect and your comments on blindness are a mix of puzzling and just plain wrong. Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about a course  you don’t know that well.

[Anthony Butler]

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Still if that's not your cup of tee, its probably best you missed the National. There's 8 blind tee shots on the Moonah course alone.

Ok Anthony, you have got me curious on this on.  I play National Moonah probably every second weekend and have since it opened about 18 years ago.  12 and 13 tee shots are blind but for the life of me I can't find 6 more.


As for the snakes, you see one every so often but almost all are either indifferent to you and sunning themselves in full view or pretty keen to get out of your way.  I'd take a close encounter with a snake over one with a bear any day of the week.

I guess it depends on where the wind is coming from and where you hit 'em but about half my tee shots disappeared from view before they landed.. I would also nominate the 9th, 10th and 11th in that category. Also the second shot on 15. The 12th is a par 3 in which you can't quite see the surface of the hole but you can see the pin and the outlines of the green surface, so not a blind tee shot in my view. 


The 13th is particularly bad... I almost killed a lady on the fairway last time despite waiting over 10 mins on the tee before hitting. Not sure what she was doing all that time, but she wasn't in the mood to ask.

Anthony your comments regarding the Moonah course are riddled with innacuracies. Hole numbers are incorrect and your comments on blindness are a mix of puzzling and just plain wrong. Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well.

Mathew,


I meant the Par 5 12th.. But by all means continue to be a dick when other people make an error... because you are indeed perfect yourself.

e.g.  "Perhaps best to refrain from such definite comments about yourself you don’t know that well."

Would you mind sharing what language that is?

[Matthew Mollica]

I’m far from perfect Anthony, as my predictive typing effort above on my phone demonstrates!

[Scott Warren]

I would have thought “yourself” was - in the context of Matt’s sentence - pretty obviously an iPhone autocorrect of “courses”.


Anthony — I agree sometimes the critcism people have of NSWGC is nonsensical and tends to the bizarre at times, but likewise I think your comments re Nat Moonah were a bit much, as you’ve probably found while trying to defend them!


NSWGC has, relatively, a lot of blindness. Where it has blindness it also tends to have ample width. If people hate blind shots, that’s their prerogative, but I know - as I know you do - that when your plays of the course go from one to a handful to a few dozen and then past 100, a heap of those features are gifts that keep on giving.


If that means the occasional one-and-done visitor doesn’t get it, I’m okay with that.