[James Brown]

Curious to see reactions to this.  Looks like they shallowed the Shell Bunker a bit.


Thoughts?


http://blog.standrews.com/2018/12/01/shell-bunker-reconstruction-pt-1/

[Ally Mcintosh]

Why do you think they shallowed it, James? Looks like routine bunker rebuilding to me. Every links course with revetted bunkers will replace a few each winter.


Ally

[James Brown]

Why do you think they shallowed it, James? Looks like routine bunker rebuilding to me. Every links course with revetted bunkers will replace a few each winter.


Ally

Looked to me like one of the pictures of the Shell Bunker had the new lip a foot or two lower.  I personally don’t think lowering the lip is a big, just curious if anyone here knows anything further about motivations and reasoning. 

[David_Tepper]

The final pic shows the top of the riveting to be below the surrounding grass surface, but the written comments make it clear the job is far from finished."The build has reached three-quarters of the way in height so it’s now time to let the face settle. Given some time along with rain, which is typical at this time of year, the existing sand and soil will compress and squeeze out any air pockets.We will return in two week times to add the finishing touches so look out for pt.2!"

[Mark Chaplin]

Shell is enormous, during the Dunhill six green keepers would rake it and one supervised from above to ensure the lines were straight.


James - read the words as well as look at the pictures 

[James Brown]

Shell is enormous, during the Dunhill six green keepers would rake it and one supervised from above to ensure the lines were straight.


James - read the words as well as look at the pictures 

Why be so condescending?


Being an amateur golfer, I don’t know how earth moving like that works.  Is the idea that they build to 3/4 of the eventual height and the allow it to settle (to a lower height?) and then build it up some more? 


I’ve never been in Shell but I drove it on the very edge of it once, almost where it was scary to take my stance because the edge was so sharp.  Was really just wondering if they are changing the countours or just rebuilding it to the original specs.


Do you know?

[Jeff Schley]

Really respect the skill and attention to detail to make this renovation perfect.  With such a big space being off an inch at one end would be a disaster by the time you got to the other. I remember my neighbor putting in retaining wall blocks and didn't level them exactly (obviously by the end), and it was a 2 foot drop by the end of the 50 foot run it appeared.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Shell is enormous, during the Dunhill six green keepers would rake it and one supervised from above to ensure the lines were straight.


James - read the words as well as look at the pictures 

Why be so condescending?


Being an amateur golfer, I don’t know how earth moving like that works.  Is the idea that they build to 3/4 of the eventual height and the allow it to settle (to a lower height?) and then build it up some more? 


I’ve never been in Shell but I drove it on the very edge of it once, almost where it was scary to take my stance because the edge was so sharp.  Was really just wondering if they are changing the countours or just rebuilding it to the original specs.


Do you know?

Like pouring a pint of Guinness....


I’ve built quite a lot of revetted bunkers but none so large that I felt the need to pause 3/4 of the way up for settlement in order to ensure a perfect top-line. I can see why it might be needed on the gaping chasm that is Shell.


Just from the photo’s, it looks like they are being quite faithful to both the depth and the existing location of the face - doesn’t appear to be any material change.... but I don’t *know* that.

[Niall C]

Really respect the skill and attention to detail to make this renovation perfect. 

Here's a question, should it be perfect ?

Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Really respect the skill and attention to detail to make this renovation perfect. 

Here's a question, should it be perfect ?

Niall

I don’t like squint facing sod or an ugly top line in an artistic sense... after that, I tend to agree with what you are driving at...

[Jeff Schley]

Really respect the skill and attention to detail to make this renovation perfect. 

Here's a question, should it be perfect ?

Niall

Legit... question..... I like uniform dimensions, but finishing doesn't have to be perfect I would say.

[Marty Bonnar]

Really respect the skill and attention to detail to make this renovation perfect. 

Here's a question, should it be perfect ?

Niall

Legit... question..... I like uniform dimensions, but finishing doesn't have to be perfect I would say.

The Links Trust have systematically sterilised and homogenised the Old Course into architectural mediocrity. IMHO, of course. I’ve long given up any hope of getting a job with them!
F.


PS Go Bears!

[James Brown]

Shell is enormous, during the Dunhill six green keepers would rake it and one supervised from above to ensure the lines were straight.


James - read the words as well as look at the pictures 

Why be so condescending?


Being an amateur golfer, I don’t know how earth moving like that works.  Is the idea that they build to 3/4 of the eventual height and the allow it to settle (to a lower height?) and then build it up some more? 


I’ve never been in Shell but I drove it on the very edge of it once, almost where it was scary to take my stance because the edge was so sharp.  Was really just wondering if they are changing the countours or just rebuilding it to the original specs.


Do you know?

Like pouring a pint of Guinness....


I’ve built quite a lot of revetted bunkers but none so large that I felt the need to pause 3/4 of the way up for settlement in order to ensure a perfect top-line. I can see why it might be needed on the gaping chasm that is Shell.


Just from the photo’s, it looks like they are being quite faithful to both the depth and the existing location of the face - doesn’t appear to be any material change.... but I don’t *know* that.

Part of the reason I am curious is that I don’t know what the historical trend is on bunkers that are so old.  Do they get shallower over time and need to be deepened or vice versatile.  I assume they shallow out with time, but don’t know. 


To my experience, Road Hole Bunker was made much shallower and less penal in the last round of changes, so I am on the watch!

[Niall C]

James

I’d suggest that a bunker that is left alone for a number of years will get deeper as golfers continue to dig the hole and the sand splash lands on top increasing the height. Of course there could be other forces at work which would off-set that and that is why you really need a response from someone who knows what they are talking about 

Niall

[Rich Goodale]

I've played Dornoch in the middle of winter many times over the past 10-15 years, and have several times played through the greenskeepers in the process of revetting bunkers needing TLC.  I've spoken to them then and there and they tell me that it is a very complex procedure, requiring precision and patience.  It is not a simple matter of cutting, putting in new bricks of sod and then moving on.


As for TOC, I'm sure that Shell et. al will be fine and dandy by the time that Spring comes along.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I've played Dornoch in the middle of winter many times over the past 10-15 years, and have several times played through the greenskeepers in the process of revetting bunkers needing TLC.  I've spoken to them then and there and they tell me that it is a very complex procedure, requiring precision and patience.  It is not a simple matter of cutting, putting in new bricks of sod and then moving on.


As for TOC, I'm sure that Shell et. al will be fine and dandy by the time that Spring comes along.

Hmmm... Depends on your definition of complex.


Definitely requires precision and patience and there a few things to consider and decisions to be made. I certainly also think that revetted bunkers can be quite artistic if executed well.


But complex - not really.

[Rich Goodale]

I completely defer to your wisdom, Ally.


The complexity of four (or whatever) dimensions is something which I do not understand completely.

rfg

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