[Kevin Pallier]

What are the “best” P3’s, P4’s and P5’s you have seen by the architect mentioned above ?

Try limiting it to max. three per hole type and please explain why you think they are so ?

[Bill Brightly]

I've always thought Streamsong Red #11 was a great par 4. Split fairway makes you choose between safe left landing area with tougher uphill approach directly over bunker, of riskier right side of fairway to get a better look at the green.

[Todd Melrose]

Sand Hills #1 - 18 

[Matt Wharton]

Dormie Club is the only Coore/Crenshaw original design I've played.  I've always been quite fond of the 6th, 8th and 13th holes there.  The 6th is a straight away par 5 that plays uphill from the tee then downhill to the green.  From the landing zone looking down to the green doesn't appear to be that steep, but once you've reached the putting surface a glance back up the fairway reveals just how much fall there was to navigate reaching the green (very deceptive).  The 8th and 13th are par 4's on the card but the 8th is a great example of a half-par hole as one is more likely to make 5 rather than 4 based on the length and topography of that hole.  My affinity for the longish 13th stems from the fact it contains zero sand bunkers.


Cheers,

[JC Jones]

We miss Bill Schulz already!


I've played 9 C&C designs and my tops for each of the following would be:


Par 3:
Bandon Trails #5
Trinity Forest #8
Bandon Trails #12


Par 4:
Sand Hills #8
Trinity Forest #16
Sand Hills #18


Par 5:
Sand Hills #14
Bandon Trails #16
Sand Hills #1/Trinity Forest #11

[Mark Pritchett]

Two of my favorites: 

#5 Cuscowilla
#6 Cuscowilla

[Dan Gallaway]

We miss Bill Schulz already!


I've played 9 C&C designs and my tops for each of the following would be:


Par 3:
Bandon Trails #5
Trinity Forest #8
Bandon Trails #12


Par 4:
Sand Hills #8
Trinity Forest #16
Sand Hills #18


Par 5:
Sand Hills #14
Bandon Trails #16
Sand Hills #1/Trinity Forest #11

Glad to know I’m not on my own in loving Trails #12

[Daryl David]

We miss Bill Schulz already!

Where did Bill go??

[Jim Franklin]

We miss Bill Schulz already!

Where did Bill go??

He took his ball and went home. I am not sure why his threads were deleted, but they were.

[Buck Wolter]

We miss Bill Schulz already!

Where did Bill go? ?

He took his ball and went home. I am not sure why his threads were deleted, but they were.

I'm sure his 23 annual contributions and threads with thousands of views won't be missed.

[Rob Rigg]

This is tough because there are so many to choose from - I'll toss out some publics for debate . . .

Talking Stick - North - Hole #2 - Par 5 - Boundary left with tons of room right. 2 bunkers front left and left of green make a play towards the boundary fence on the drive and second very beneficial.

Talking Stick - North - Hole #12 - Par 4 - Red Mountain - Super fun potentially drivable two shotter where hitting it straight to narrow fairway leads to easy approach up the gut but flirts with boundary and sand chasm, but safe drive right leads to tougher approach across sand wash.

We Ko Pa - Saguaro - Hole #13 - Par 4 - Super fun cape hole with tons of room right but line of charm is close to the left boundary for downhill approach. Tiny pot bunker in middle of fairway messes with you off the tee.

We Ko Pa - Saguaro - Hole #15 - Par 3 - Long one shotter with hill on the right that will feed the ball down to the green. Junk to the left.

Bandon Trails - Hole #3 - Par 5 - Just love the visuals when you are standing on the tee box. Tons of space but center line hazard. Cool forebunker ahead of the green.

Bandon Trails - Hole #13 - Par 4 - Awesome green complex with fall off left and right. Backboard can help you out. Tee shot too far right is jail and too far left is bunker.
Bandon Trails - Hole #15 - Par 4 - Love the cross bunker off the tee and green complex.

The Plantation Course at Kapalua has so many fun holes - The Par 4 5th is a super fun tee shot up and over the hill that you can run on or near the green, or right into the junk. The Par 4 17th and Par 5 18th are also crazy fun.

[Jeff Schley]

I have played I think 7 C&C courses, but the one that stands out always is #18 at Kapalua Plantation Course.  Just the sheer beauty and the fact you are playing 663 yards downhill and even mere mortals may have a chance to get on in two.  Played it twice and topped my 2nd shot once 150 yards down the fairway and then sliced my 2nd shot right the next. Just love the downhill views of course with the ocean playing a prominent role.  Wonderful setting and really sticks in my mind, perhaps not for great architecture, but for beauty and the thrill of what if.

[mike_beene]

Rob, I think you mean the 6th at Plantation?

[Jim Franklin]

10th at Friars Head is my favorite par 3 of theirs and in my top five favorite par 3s.

[Ira Fishman]

I have played only Plantation and Bandon Trails.  I was quite disappointed with Plantation although some of the holes were great--#5 and #17 in particular.  Bandon Trails was simply terrific.  And the stretch of Par 4s of #13, #14, and #15 particularly strong.  Especially #14.


Ira

[Matthew Petersen]

I will second a few of Rob's noms ...


#2 at Talking Stick North for a par 5. Featured in Doak's Anatomy of the GC. Hugely wide fairway but with OB hard left and the green up against it, sooner or later you're going to have to take it on.


#12 at TS North. Again the OB is hard left. Now you also have a dry wash right of the green. Challenge the green (and the OB very close to the left of it) and you can either drive the green or, at minimum, leave a simple chip up the length of the green. Drive safely out to the right and you're left with a wedge or short iron in that must clear the wash but not go long into the OB. An excellent hole built around angles, an obvious but less severe non-hazard (the wash), and a less obvious but very severe hazard (the OB). No bunkers on this hole, as well.


I also am a big fan of #13 at WeKoPa, which he mentioned as well.


However, I don't like #15 at WeKoPa. The idea is there but I don't think the hole plays well. It's so much downhill that even when the course is firm I've never seen anyone who plays a shot short and right ever actually get a kick onto the green.

[Carson Pilcher]

Two of my favorites: 

#5 Cuscowilla
#6 Cuscowilla

I agree with you.  #17 Cuscowilla is a great Par 4 as well.

[corey miller]

What about other holes at Friars Head?

I love that they built the #10 hole but It does nothing for me and as a whole I find the par 3's the least compelling grouping (5's then 4's) at Friars Head. 

Surely some of those par 5's have to be some of the best?

[Tommy Williamsen]

It is not necessarily my favorite hole but I like 17 at Dormie. It is a bit controversial on here. The second shot is the key, but you only have decision to make if you have hit a good drive. The second shot is eaither a lay-up or a forced uphill shot over some deadly bunkers. If you lay-up you have a sort third that is difficult to hit close. It is hard to judge the distance to the pin.

[Matthew Petersen]

I like the 6th at Kapalua. Medium length par 4 that generally plays like a short par 4 due to the downhill nature of the second shot, but if the wind comes up in your face it feels long.


You can play short of the bunker on the left, which leaves a flat lie, but a long and semi-blind downhill shot in. You can try to bomb it over the bunker and if you really drill it, you could catch a slope and drive on or near the green. Or you could be stuck on the down slope with an awkward pitch to a green running away from you. (And woe if you just end up in the bunker!)


If you play to the right side of the bunker, your second shot is blind over a large knob that both blocks your view and can play havoc with a shot that lands on the back part of it. And anything pushed right of the fairway or green is dead in the jungle.

[Rob Rigg]

Rob, I think you mean the 6th at Plantation?

Mike - You are probably right. It's been a while since I played there and the front nine isn't as clear in the ol' noggin as the back.

Thanks for correcting me!

[Jon Claydon]

love #7 at sand hills and #17 at chechessee for two shotters. 

[Joel_Stewart]

We miss Bill Schulz already!


I've played 9 C&C designs and my tops for each of the following would be:


Par 3:
Bandon Trails #5
Trinity Forest #8
Bandon Trails #12

Glad to know I’m not on my own in loving Trails #12

No mention of #2 at Bandon which I believe Mike Keiser told me was his favorite par 3 on the property.  Also #17 which is one of the most photogenic holes around.

[Tim Gallant]

What about other holes at Friars Head?

I love that they built the #10 hole but It does nothing for me and as a whole I find the par 3's the least compelling grouping (5's then 4's) at Friars Head. 

Surely some of those par 5's have to be some of the best?

Corey,


I've only played one C&C: Friar's Head, and would agree that it is the 4 par and 5 par holes that really shine. That being said, 8, 10 and 17 are wonderful par 3 holes. I agree with Jim that 10 is one of the best that I have seen in the States and would put it on a short list of best par-3s I've played. For pure versatility, I haven't seen any other par 3 that can play so different based on pin/tee.


One that maybe isn't talked about enough, but I loved the drive and pitch par 4 5th. A cool green and a centreline bunker that makes choosing a line off the tee important. Another great hole is the first.

[Tom_Doak]

I must admit I'm surprised how few of Bill and Ben's courses most posters have seen.  I haven't thought of it lately because nearly all projects since the crash are resorts, but prior to that we operated more in different niches, as Ben's name was more appealing to anyone doing a development.


My favorite golf holes of theirs are where they break out of their safe zone and build a really wild green, like the 9th at Friars Head, or the 9th or 16th at Streamsong Red, or the 5th at Bandon Trails. 


But I think my favorite of all their holes is the 4th at Bandon Trails for its use of that beautiful diagonal ridge in the fairway.  Nearly any other designer would have softened that feature so it was less blinding, or put a bunker or two into it.

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