Mike Strantz vs Time

[John Kavanaugh]

It's a battle we all lose. How about his work?


A tour of True Blue. https://www.truebluegolf.com/scorecard/

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I’m not sure what the topic is here. Yes, he’s unfortunately passed on, but what’s the topic? How his courses are holding up only a few years later? It hasn’t been that long.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike sadly passed away 13 years ago. It's not too soon.

[Terry Lavin]

I have several friends at Bulls Bay and they are still enamored.

[corey miller]

Have played none though Tobacco Road looks interesting....


How do people generally rank Mike Strantz courses?

[John Kavanaugh]

Look at the 3rd hole and ask yourself....Really?!?


https://www.truebluegolf.com/scorecard/

[JC Urbina]

John,


I have been wanting to start a topic on TIME as it relates to golf course architecture for a while now. I don't mean to hijack your thread but it really moved me to send a reply.


When I saw Bulls Bay and the work he had done at MPCC I realized how talented Mike really was.  Creativity, Beauty, Strategy, all were a part of the experiences I got out of each of these courses.  I tell anyone who ask's about his work, to go see these two courses, they will knock your socks off.  Now, someone could critique some of his holes but overall, the presentation is supreme.  Sight lines, correct and most of all, his attention to the little details,  superb!!  He spent considerable "Time"  on site


I agree with Terry, his friends are enjoying some of Mike's best work.


I had a really great conversation with Riley Johns on this topic, we just started to scratch the surface when we ended our conversation early. Riley had asked about some of the things I had learned over the years, and one of my answers was, how time played a role in my learning curve.

I have been talking to Andy about having a discussion about Time and its relationship to Golf design, I hope we get a chance to do it.

Good Topic John, I will check in to see where this subject goes.

[A.G._Crockett]

Have played none though Tobacco Road looks interesting....


How do people generally rank Mike Strantz courses?

They are ALL interesting, and then some!

Tobacco Road is absolutely unique; a work of art that happens to be a golf course.  Two weeks ago I played a CGA four ball there; 43 degrees, double digit wind, drizzle all day, cart path only, and I shot a million.  And had the time of my life.  I just love the place, and go every chance I get.


And since it's the holidays, I'll pitch it again.  Mike sketched and drew his holes and then built them; the Strantz family sells prints of Mike's drawings of various holes at his courses; some are pen and ink, some are watercolors.  They are suitable for framing, and a very cool Xmas gift for a golfer.  They are good enough that my wife, who is an artist herself, allows three of them to hang in the den.  Some of the proceeds of your purchase goes to the Hollings Cancer Center in Charleston, where Mike underwent treatment.  Give it some thought.

And my favorite 36 hole day is True Blue in the morning, then lunch and an afternoon round at Caledonia.  There were never two courses more different, and they're across the street from each other and done by the same guy.  He was truly an artist.

[Mike Sweeney]

Look at the 3rd hole and ask yourself....Really?!?


https://www.truebluegolf.com/scorecard/

1) The people at True Blue and Caledonia are really really nice. They were completely supportive of my "Caddie Camp" -  https://www.instagram.com/p/BdXeiZ0FIf9/


2) I know how they "softened" True Blue, but it is an enormously fun course to play, last year. My general rule is to move up one set of tees on a Stranz course and you will have an enormously fun round.


3) Stranz did not have the clout to say, "Screw it, no cart paths." Thus, he has some awkward walks from tee to green, but the holes are very fun to play.


Missing Bob Huntley. He was very old school, but he loved the Stranz Course at MPCC. So did I.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I'll be in the minority, I think, on how Tobacco Road actually plays.

I think it's a great course to see once or twice. Get lots of photos. Enjoy the heck out of it. Even be goaded into going for a lot of stuff you shouldn't. But the second or third or at least by the fourth time you play there, the course should reveal itself to be pretty simple. It's a pretty easy course to play. It's wide, and if you can resist being coerced into taking on more than you could, very scoreable.

I'd elaborate, but I don't think this is the topic John had in mind.

I love Caledonia. I love True Blue. Those are the only Strantz courses I've played. I have heard Tot Hill Farm is "Tobacco Road on steroids."

[Edward Glidewell]

Caledonia and Bulls Bay are both tremendous courses. I'm not a big fan of True Blue, but I've only played it once and maybe I was just having a bad day. I haven't played any of his other courses, although I've heard a lot of hate for both Tobacco Road (people here seem to love it, though) and Tot Hill Farm.

[Peter Pallotta]

JC - re your post, if you don't mind a semi-aside:

The Greeks had two terms for (and conceptions of) Time -- Kairos was used to refer to the natural/proper time for an event or action (including internal subjective events like the time it takes to make a major -- and wise -- decision)...and they recognized that Kairos didn't always align with or fit into the demands of the other term/conception, ie Chronos, from where we get the word chronological and that refers to 'clock time', to the passing of time day after day and year after year. 

And the Greeks made this distinction, being the ancient Greeks, because they wanted to distinguish the ever fleeting and ever changing things of this world (Chronos) from the internal processes involved in something like making a major decision (Kairos), which they saw as so deeply a personal/subjective process, one so tied to the individual human 'soul', that for them it qualified as eternal.
 
Which is to say: I think the kind of 'time' you're talking about, the kind of time an architect might take in letting the site show/tell him what kind of course it wants to be and in weighing so many different options/possibilities because he cares very much about doing his very best, is Kairos. Whereas John seems to be talking more about Chronos, the fleeting changing tastes over the years that might make what was once popular and 'good' back then considered less so today....or the same kind of time that might make a client ask an architect to hurry up, to take less time.

I suppose that's why there are tensions and conflicts sometimes between the client and the architect, i.e. because one is living in/on Chronos and the things of this world, while the other is trying to honour Kairos, and to put (golf in) The Kingdom first and foremost.   

Two very valid approaches to/understanding of Time, of course -- which are also two very valid understandings of/value-systems for life; but for my tastes and temperament Kairos is where it's at, and what it's all about, and what I'm most interested in. 

Peter

[Kalen Braley]

Barney,


I can only guess you're bored hiding in the den from everyone who came over for the Thanksgiving Holidays.  While I've only played one of his courses, MPCC, it was an absolute delight and treat. TR also remains very high on my to play list among his other East Coast courses...

[John Kavanaugh]

Hardly bored. Started this thread in a cab leaving the Caps/Red Wings. Golf is at best the mortar between my bricks.


I just don't get why Mike gets a pass on "artistry".  The routing of Tobacco Road is missing a hole. A hole does not an ear make.

[Jim Tang]

I have only played two of Mike's courses; MPCC and Caledonia.  I loved both courses.  I plan to see Tobacco Road next August and I'm already looking forward to that round.  The day I was fortunate enough to spend at MPCC is one of my five best days in golf.


Granted, I have limited experience on his courses.  But, what I have seen has been imprinted in my memory.  His work seems to stir strong emotions (both for and against) and to me, that is always a sign of a risk taker, a boundary pusher, a guy ahead of his time.  Mike was a true artist.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have only played two of Mike's courses; MPCC and Caledonia.  I loved both courses.  I plan to see Tobacco Road next August and I'm already looking forward to that round.  The day I was fortunate enough to spend at MPCC is one of my five best days in golf.


Granted, I have limited experience on his courses.  But, what I have seen has been imprinted in my memory.  His work seems to stir strong emotions (both for and against) and to me, that is always a sign of a risk taker, a boundary pusher, a guy ahead of his time.  Mike was a true artist.

Jim,


What do you mean by saying Mike was a guy ahead of his time? Is anyone building work like his now or are we still waiting?

[Jay Mickle]

Mike’s courses are bold and beàutiful. As an artist he built courses where you are as likely to get a great view looking backward as forward.  Bulls Bay and Caledonia are tributes to his extrodinary vision. Tobacco Road is the ultimate strategic/heroic course and a prelude to the sandscape courses in the Pinehurst/ Southern Pines area. And who else would have taken on the property at Tothill Farm. I have only played Stonehouse and Royal New Kent once 9 or so years ago but recall being impressed with a number of the holes (look forward to returning next year after new ownership). As foras Mike Strantz and time, I only wish that he had more of it.

[Matt Kardash]

Look at the 3rd hole and ask yourself....Really?!?


https://www.truebluegolf.com/scorecard/

My one and only hole-in-one was on the third hole. About 20 years ago. 9 iron from about 150. The sun was directly in my eyes so I didn't know it was in the hole until I walked by the hole. Since I didn't see my ball on the green I thought they ball went in the water.

[Jason Topp]

The influence of Pete Dye can be seen in his draw/fade par 4s.


His use of short par 3s with long narrow greens is interesting and seems to work well.


I really like his par 5s - a regular hole is one shaped like a question mark that rewards placement of the tee shot near an internal hazard as much as distance off the tee. 

[Jeff Schley]

I have only played Caledonia and True Blue, thus I'm not a Strantz expert.  I was supposed to play Tobacco Road and Tot Hill Farm this summer but plans changed.  I think our very own Tim Gavrich wrote a wonderful catalogue of Mike's career and properties he touched both as an apprentice under Tom Fazio and on his own.
https://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/the-mike-strantz-golf-courses-you-had-no-idea-existed

[A.G._Crockett]

I'll be in the minority, I think, on how Tobacco Road actually plays.

I think it's a great course to see once or twice. Get lots of photos. Enjoy the heck out of it. Even be goaded into going for a lot of stuff you shouldn't. But the second or third or at least by the fourth time you play there, the course should reveal itself to be pretty simple. It's a pretty easy course to play. It's wide, and if you can resist being coerced into taking on more than you could, very scoreable.

I'd elaborate, but I don't think this is the topic John had in mind.

I love Caledonia. I love True Blue. Those are the only Strantz courses I've played. I have heard Tot Hill Farm is "Tobacco Road on steroids."

Eric,

Tot Hill isn't Tobacco Road on steroids; nothing is.  Tot Hill is on a much different site in the Uwharrie Mountains, rather than the sand hills, and while there are commonalities with all of Mike's other courses, such as tee shots that are visually intimidating but into enormous landing areas, the terrain and flow of the land is so different that it's hard to compare the two.  Of the two, I think most golfers would consider Tobacco Road to be the more difficult AND the more exciting, but Tot Hill is great.

The critical key to playing Strantz courses, as has been mentioned, is to get to the correct tees.  At Tobacco Road, for instance, the Plow tees, which is the third set of tees, are 5886 yds, which a lot of players scoff at.  But the slope rating from those tees is 145.  The next set of tees is 5302, with a slope rating of 136; you get the idea.  True Blue is very much like this as well.  Players who don't pay attention to this don't necessarily play well, and we all know what that means in terms of how golfers view a course.

[Sean_A]

I think Mike's work may struggle over the long haul because of the artistic nature of the designs....meaning money and attention to detail to retain the original vision. Ironically, this artist side is likely how Mike thought his work would survive. I sure hope I am wrong and the next generation see fit to maintain Mike's original intentions because Tobacco Road was a serious eye opener for me...so too was Bulls Bay.  Perhaps The Road was ahead of its time as we are now seeing more emphasis on fun...which may bring Mike's name to the forefront once again...for sure I never laughed or smiled more than on my games around The Road.  On another level, Mike's work touched too many people to completely disappear and that is very clear when we see what has happened around Pinehurst with renovations.  Mike's impact is quite evident.

Ciao

[A.G._Crockett]

I think Mike's work may struggle over the log haul because of the artistic nature of the designs....meaning money and attention to detail to retain the original vision. Ironically, this artist side is likely how Mike thought his work would survive. I sure hope I am wrong and the next generation see fit to maintain the Mike's original intentions because Tobacco Road was a serious eye opener for me...so too was Bulls Bay.  Perhaps The Road was ahead of its time as we are now seeing more emphasis on fun...which may bring Mike's name to the forefront once again...for sure I never laughed or smiled more than on my games around The Road.  On another level, Mike's work touched too many people to completely disappear and that is very clear when we see what has happened around around Pinehurst with renovations. 

Ciao

Sean,

Points well taken for Mike's work, and really ALL GCA.  What's happened at Royal New Kent and Stonehouse are cautionary tales.

I will say that Mark Stewart and the other principals at Tobacco Road are in it for the long haul and I think consider themselves "stewards" of Mike's work there.  Mark is as personally invested in that land as you could be; his whole life has been in the area and connected to that site, long before it was a golf course.  Next time you're there, look him up and introduce yourself; you'll thoroughly enjoy talking to him about the course, about Strantz, and about golf in general.

[John Kavanaugh]

Look at the 3rd hole and ask yourself....Really?!?


https://www.truebluegolf.com/scorecard/

My one and only hole-in-one was on the third hole. About 20 years ago. 9 iron from about 150. The sun was directly in my eyes so I didn't know it was in the hole until I walked by the hole. Since I didn't see my ball on the green I thought they ball went in the water.

Matt,


That is a great story. Congrats. So, because of the nature of the design did you hit a provisional before you walked all the way to the hole? It can be presumptive to assume you are in the hole when faced with a rear entry. Or is the entire green staked red?

[Jim Tang]

John -


By saying Mike was ahead of his time, I think I was trying to say what Sean said; that his courses were built for fun.  Fun seems to be one of the major driving forces behind golf courses that are developed today.  I'm not sure that was the prevailing wisdom when Mike designed Caledonia, back in 1993.