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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
No Laying Up @ TOC
« on: November 20, 2018, 09:42:38 PM »

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 10:51:03 PM »
Thanks, that was really good.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 09:47:55 AM »
This morning my wife and I talked about the how quickly the way we consume information is changing. We have both turned to Podcasts as our primary source of information and entertainment in the last two years. I no longer listen to music. I never did watch TV.

I told her about the No Laying Up Podcast.
I watched last night.

I think it’s well done, but I’m clearly not the target audience. There is too much personal footage for me. I also found some of the editing tricks frustrating to watch through, but I’m probably “too old” to appreciate the pace. At the same time the archival material and narration was excellent. The strategies required for the early holes are well presented too.

I'm still not compelled to watch more of their podcasts … but I can clearly see how my sons would have enjoyed all the stuff the old man didn’t. The pacing meets the demand for how younger people consume content. I still read books … so I’m a Luddite.

I’ve come to the conclusion that what No Laying Up and the Fried Egg does is the future of how we will get our information. People consume most of their information on line. They like things to be fast, entertaining and free. I think if I watched regularly and got used to the pace, I’d watch more frequently. The drone imagery is very, very addictive.

I was drawn to this by the Peter Kessler. They are much better than he thinks they are. I watched some old shows he did on Golf Channel and found them slow.

We live in interesting times.

One of the keys to going out on my own was a media strategy that I used. For those who don’t know I wrote a blog that was unique “back then”. Interestingly, here we are a dozen years later and the same strategy would not work.

I watch what the guys can do and realise they are so good and they are clearly the content makes of our generation. I can’t help but be impressed by all of this.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 09:53:48 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 10:06:44 AM »
Ian

The videos work well in conjunction with the podcast.  I think the crew needs to get the two better connected somehow. 

Interestingly, I tend to like a slower moving style, but I admit that this video seemed too slow with, as you say, personal content. It seems many podcasts easily lurch back to the personal style whereas I think they would be better off with more editing.  Many podcasts go on too long and often lack focus.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 10:10:01 AM »
13,000 views. Is that a virus?

Peter Pallotta

Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 10:14:04 AM »
Nice post, Ian - good & accurate assessment, IMO.

Besides what you've already mentioned, I think there are two other factors/dynamics at work in the world of 'modern communication':

1. The notion of the 'expert' -- and certainly the idea that you have to be/have proven yourself to be an expert before daring to share your insights and experiences -- no longer holds sway. For the younger generation of makers & viewers, a personal and deeply-felt interest is all that's required to 'justify' both creating the work and enjoying it.

2. Related to this: few in the younger generation can stomach the authoritative Kessler style 'voice of God' approach, i.e. the voice-over-heavy narrative style that very clearly tells viewers what they're watching, and that very directly suggests to them what they should be drawing-out from the watching. 

It feels like only a few years ago, when I was writing television documentaries for the CBC, that producers and clients all wanted that very thing, that kind of over-arching and meaning-making approach to story telling.

Nowadays, those same producers are scrambling to structure the work without any 'outside voice', and instead looking to use only & wholly a subjective/first person POV approach -- an approach that leaves plenty of 'room' for the audience to bring itself and its own meanings & insights to the table.

Peter       
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 10:16:23 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 11:12:28 AM »
Where’s the cash coming from to pay to make these videos, programmes, podcasts and the like? Enthusiasts having fun and self funding? Adverts? Some kind of subscription process?
Just curious, particularly as many of them, as mentioned above, seem to involve non-experts in the introduction, staring, production aspects.
Atb

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 12:39:15 PM »
Peter Kessler seems to have gone off the deep end in the past few years.

NLU does a great job for their audience. Their podcasts are pretty solid. The videos, yeah, I'm a wee bit too old for them, but they're still better than most everything else out there.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 01:32:41 PM »


I’ve come to the conclusion that what No Laying Up and the Fried Egg does is the future of how we will get our information. People consume most of their information on line. They like things to be fast, entertaining and free. I think if I watched regularly and got used to the pace, I’d watch more frequently. The drone imagery is very, very addictive.



I agree with you that this is probably the way of the future, but I have serious doubts about the business model of "fast, entertaining and free." 


Is everyone going to keep working their asses off to produce free material without getting paid for it?  No.  So where is the income to produce such things going to come from?


For now, some are willing to do the work to get ahead of the curve and capture the market.  Maybe the PGA TOUR can take some of its millions and pay for that with no expected return from advertising for a while.  But sooner or later, advertising must intervene, or people will have to pay/donate to subscribe*, or our kids' high expectations are going to be disappointed.


So, most of the content is going to be whatever the courses and architects are willing to produce on their own dime to promote themselves, and maybe there will be a few shows that use that content for less obvious commercial purposes.


What's you marketing budget these days, Ian?

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 02:09:36 PM »
I am an avid consumer of free digital information across a variety of topics. (I pay for lots of books and magazine subscriptions). Sometimes I feel guilty that I am getting information for free because none of my go to places have advertisements or access to my personal data. And it is a business model that is very tough to sustain. Khe Ry is a young former finance guy who quit to start a pretty interesting self help newsletter aimed at young professionals (not me). Last week, he wrote a terrific piece about needing to turn to consulting because he would never generate enough revenue just through his digital publishing.


Ira

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 02:10:51 PM »
"Where’s the cash coming from to pay to make these videos, programmes, podcasts and the like?"

Thomas D. -

The NLU podcasts are clearly sponsored by Callaway and BMW.

DT

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 02:18:06 PM »
Not to hijack the thread, but it reminds me it is time to make my annual contribution to GCA.


Ira

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 02:30:16 PM »
What's you marketing budget these days, Ian?
Same as it has been from 2005 ... $0.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 09:16:57 PM »
No one's going to post their accompanying write-up/love letter to the video? I guess I will

https://nolayingup.com/2018/11/20/tourist-sauce-season-2-old-course/
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 10:18:30 PM »
I agree with you that this is probably the way of the future, but I have serious doubts about the business model of "fast, entertaining and free." 

Is everyone going to keep working their asses off to produce free material without getting paid for it?  No.  So where is the income to produce such things going to come from?
They're earning a living for several people from their work. Just because the content is free to consume doesn't mean it's free. Local channels are free on my TV with an HD antenna… and I get a ton of free content. Doesn't mean the actors and networks aren't making money.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 06:37:30 AM »
"Where’s the cash coming from to pay to make these videos, programmes, podcasts and the like?"

Thomas D. -

The NLU podcasts are clearly sponsored by Callaway and BMW.

DT


And it's enough cash that at least Soly and Tron have quit their jobs and do this for a living. I think that is true for DJ and Randy as well. They have said on the podcast they have turned down quite a few offers for sponsorship as well.


I own a B2B media company (great-grandfather started it in 1928) and I can guarantee that companies like Callaway and BMW are not in this for a small amount of money.


The first time I saw a NLU video on YouTube I thought it would be cheesy and lame. But, I was strangely intrigued. This I noticed BMW was sponsoring. Hmmmm. Then I watched the first season of Tourist Sauce in Australia and I was hooked. I also loved the episodes where Randy and Neil go to Iowa and play some public courses on limited funds. Those two together were quite funny.


I have also started listening to the podcast (as well as the Fried Egg). I thought I would check these out as a listen to lots of podcasts (almost no music anymore). The podcasts are not as good as the videos. Too much rambling. Not enough focus. A medium which is speaking only is much harder to pull off than allowing the video (i.e. drones) to carry you at some point. The videos probably seem better because a bunch of editing.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 06:40:11 AM by Steve Kline »

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 06:42:53 AM »
And check this out...


There last podcast episode (released a few days ago) they interviewed Tiger and Phil for The Match.


Yeah, you read that write.


Four regular dudes that started making some cool videos with drones have gotten big time sponsorship from Callaway and BMW and generated enough buzz for Tiger and Phil to get interviewed. And Phil's interview was in the bathroom at the golf course!


No Laying Up clearly has people's attention.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 07:47:28 AM »
The NLU interview last year with Club Pro Guy was an all-time great. CPG has become a bit played out since, but the podcast from the NLU guys was fantastic.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2018, 10:06:33 AM »
ZZZZZZZZZZZ
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2018, 11:37:10 AM »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No Laying Up @ TOC
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2018, 12:24:30 PM »
If these guys can make it work both personally and financially, I don't get the hatin'.  My hats off to em!


They aren't my cup of tea, but neither is McDonalds, so its all good!

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