[Garland Bayley]

... and showing yourself to be a clown?

Who's showing himself to be a clown?

[JC Jones]

... and showing yourself to be a clown?

Who's showing himself to be a clown?

I know reading comprehension is a consistent problem for you, but the post was clearly address to Ian.


Clown.

[Ian Mackenzie]

... and showing yourself to be a clown?

Who's showing himself to be a clown?

I know reading comprehension is a consistent problem for you, but the post was clearly address to Ian.


Clown.

I'm a member at a club close to Brora and have played there (Brora) multiple times.
Yeah, I'm following YOU...sure.


Dude, you have "ESS" - Empty Suit Syndrome. Or, as one of our 4 star generals said recently, "An empty barrel makes the most noise."

[JC Jones]

... and showing yourself to be a clown?

Who's showing himself to be a clown?

I know reading comprehension is a consistent problem for you, but the post was clearly address to Ian.


Clown.

I'm a member at a club close to Brora and have played there (Brora) multiple times.
Yeah, I'm following YOU...sure.


Dude, you have "ESS" - Empty Suit Syndrome. Or, as one of our 4 star generals said recently, "An empty barrel makes the most noise."

So you chimed in on this thread to tell us you’re a member of two clubs nobody has ever heard of?

[Jon Wiggett]

Ken,


whilst there are some who spread slurry on their land this is always animal based (sheep, cows & pigs). The spreading of human waste on land has been banned for several decades now.


Jon

Jon and others, far from being illegal most slurry is treated human waste. In Scotland around 200,000 tonnes a year of “sewage slurry”, a polite way of saying treated human waste is spread on the land.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sewage-sludge-in-agriculture-code-of-practice

Mark,


I stand corrected. I knew there was a ban on it with grazing and arable land but had not realised it was still allowed on other area.


Ken,


I apologise for ever doubting you.


Jon

[James Brown]

Best natural links on earth.  Played many ?  The soul of the game lives on the 16th hole. How so ?

I’ve played a few.  Machrihanish.  Royal St. George’s.  Ballybunion.  Dornoch.  North Berwick.


And I’ve played Brora a few times.  Just thing that by the time you have made it to the 16th tee at Brora, you have had a chance to see true links golf.  Cause the 17th is a really great hole and when you stand on that tee, you k ow exactly what you need to do.  To me, that’s pure golf. 

[James Boon]

Its a shame that a thread that could and should be celebrating Brora has resorted to a discussion on slurry    and clowns 


Brora IS a very special place, but I'll admit to being biased. I first played it in I believe 1991 as a 14 year old, and the whole family either loved the area or the course that much that we have returned many times since. Back then the greens were the quickest I can ever remember playing on (though Cavendish always features heavily in my memory for greenspeeds as a child) and the overall condition was certainly as good as today. In fact I've always thought people have the conditioning at Brora wrong. There may be sheep wandering the course with droppings here and there but its nowhere near as rough around the edges as some people make it!


My parents who loved the area moved that way recently so yet again I have started to play regularly. As well as this years Buda I think I've managed 3 other rounds this year, most recently last week when I was hoping to play Dornoch but a frost that was only to the south of Golspie meant that course was closed by Brora was empty and in magnificent condition! Despite it being a very cold day when I got in there was a group with decidedly American accents about to tee off which was good to see!


Its good to see Brora getting good press and proving popular, but its still a long way from the full tee sheet that you might find at Dornoch. So please dont hesitate to head that little bit further north if in the area where you are sure to receive a wonderful welcome and experience a fantastic links course!


Cheers,


James

[Jon Wiggett]

James,


Brora is always in great condition when I play it and I would not consider it to be rough around the edges but maybe less defined through machine maintenance then some others. I would suggest the grazing is one of its greatest assets ensuring even in wet summers that the rough is thin and the ball is nearly always quickly found. As I have said in early posts I have come to consider Brora as the area's top links experience.


Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Brora is always in great condition when I play it and I would not consider it to be rough around the edges but maybe less defined through machine maintenance then some others. I would suggest the grazing is one of its greatest assets ensuring even in wet summers that the rough is thin and the ball is nearly always quickly found. As I have said in early posts I have come to consider Brora as the area's top links experience.

It seems rare to play any links course, even small scale ones with a very small number of maintenance staff and tiny budgets, that isn't in fine/good/great condition. A cynic might be inclined to wonder why some of the highest ranked links courses need the levels of staff and maintenance budget they have. Over-conditioning? Certainly agree with Jon's point about grazing animals being assets.
atb

[Ken Moum]

A cynic might be inclined to wonder why some of the highest ranked links courses need the levels of staff and maintenance budget they have. Over-conditioning? Certainly agree with Jon's point about grazing animals being assets.
atb

On the other hand, a cynic of a different stripe might think that the need for the large staff and budget are the residue of the popularity of those higher-ranked courses.


It's a fact that having a tee sheet full to overflowing from sunrise to 5 or 6 p.m. during the high season means there'll be a hell of a lot of feet on those tees and greens and even more divots taken out of fairways that don't fill in like Bermuda grass on a hot summer day.


It's one of the things that make the "game" of attracting more visitor green fees a bit of a Catch 22.  Most of my work experience was as a public information officer for a state natural resource management agency, and the catch applies there as well.


Under utilized resources (and golf courses) are at risk of going away due to lack of money or public support.  But when users (or golfers) become too abundant the things that made the resource (or course) attractive in the first place disappear.


No golf course has ever captured my heart the way Brora has, but it's not just the course itself that appeals.  If It were full of golfers all day every day it would also have to become some of the things that don't appeal to me, just to be able to accommodate those numbers of golfers.


K

[Jon Wiggett]

Ken,


it is about finding a balance in the end. The thing going for places like Brora is that it is a members' club run by the members for the members. Yes, they like the greenfee income but not ahead of member's access to the course. I suspect this combined with the location will mean they are unlikely to face the choice of one or the other.


Dornoch however is at that crossroads now though to date the members have kept the upper hand just.

[jeffwarne]

it is about finding a balance in the end. The thing going for places like Brora is that it is a members' club run by the members for the members. Yes, they like the greenfee income but not ahead of member's access to the course.

Hopefully that remains the case. More than a few courses have lost the plot in that regard.

[Lou_Duran]

Dornoch however is at that crossroads now though to date the members have kept the upper hand just.

JW,

Can you expand on the above?  Are you referring to the proposed new clubhouse?

As to Brora, I regret not having a 3rd or 4th play during the Buda.  Enjoyed it very much but the difficult 4-ball match required too much focus and a lot is missed in 4-somes.  We were staying on the course and I regret not sneaking in a few holes in the evening- much more to learn there.

On another note, does anyone have experience staying at the caravan parks next to so many links?  Do they offer economical weekly rentals?

[Jon Wiggett]

Lou,


my comment is partly to do with the proposals for a new clubhouse and its location. To date the club has built up a healthy reserve on the back of high greenfee traffic whilst still being in a position to being able to cover costs through the members fees. The fact that the clubhouse is not being replaced says to me the attitude of the members is still that it needs to suit and serve the purpose of the membership not the visitor. I am however very sceptical as to the reasons behind the changes to the 7th which seems to me more about upping the wow factor rather than any real improvement to the course. Were the clubhouse to be moved I think it would change the balance and signal the death knell of Dornoch as a members club.


Jon

[Rich Goodale]

Jon W


Has Dornoch really given up the push for a new clubhouse?  I haven't been up for a few months, but my feeling is that many of the powers that be are still salivating for the opportunity to tear down the old clubhouse and erect a spaceship on the land between the 1st tee of the Championship and the first tee of the Struie.  They have the money and the cash flow to do this and fund it, but why?  The answer is, I think the one that answers the age old joke as to  Q."Why do dogs lick their nether regions?  A.  Because they can."  It is true that the activity in the current Clubhouse is chaotic in the summer months, due to visitors, golfers and otherwise, but for the rest of the year it is peaceful and magic.  The obvious solution is to buy the Royal Golf Hotel, which looks over the 1st hole, and has been on life support for 20+ years, but nobody I know has neither the nether regions nor the ability to think outside the box to champion how this could be done.


Rich


PS--Jon, as you may know I fully agree with you as to the lack of rationale regarding the 7th hole, except for those golfers/committees/architects who are infatuated with eye candy and dumb blondes and dosh
PPS--Lou, hang in there.  We'll hopefully get together at Dornoch, sooner rather than later.  Please let me know your plans.


rfg

[Ian Mackenzie]

Jon W

  The answer is, I think the one that answers the age old joke as to  Q."Why do dogs lick their nether regions?  A.  Because they can." 

Rich

Rich, I thought the "correct" answer to this question is: Because they dont have thumbs....

[Rich Goodale]

Good one, Ian!

[Lou_Duran]

Thanks Jon and Rich.  I was not aware that the new clubhouse proposal had been put on a back burner.  My sense of direction was tested at the current clubhouse, but I found it homey and befitting the Championship course.

Having only played four rounds at Dornoch including one on the Struie, I don't have a strong opinion on a new clubhouse.  I trust that those who've been there a long time and have a good understanding of the pros and cons will arrive at the proper conclusion.

Now, I could get enthusiastic about rerouting the Struie on the land east of the caravan park and south along the coast.  Not a viable option as I understand.

[Ken Moum]

The fact that the clubhouse is not being replaced says to me the attitude of the members is still that it needs to suit and serve the purpose of the membership not the visitor.

I can't argue with your logic as far as the "real" demise of a club as something for its members, but if I were a rank-and-file member I would have been royally POed at not being able to get on my own course without an advance tee time.


To me, one of the real charms of courses like Brora, Tain, Fraserburgh, Golspie, etc. is that members can usually just turn up and get on THEIR golf course.


In the U.S. it's something that's possible at nearly all the private clubs, either because they keep the membership small, or because they're in a smaller town where they don't have a big pool to draw from.


I know it's selfish, but so be it.


Ken

[Niall C]

Rich

I'm not sure what buying the hotel would give you in terms of additional accommodation. Yes at a basic level it gives more space but it is another old building with cellular layout. Not sure whether it is listed but even if you could totally gut it to give the layout you want it would still be a compromise and then you'd still have two buildings.

An alternative might be to strip the old clubhouse back to its original façade and build anew behind it to give a more efficient layout. At the same time moving the American Golf pro shop over to behind the first tee.

Niall

[Niall C]

Ken

There is a lot in your post that I agree with, and I think it harks back to the other thread regarding UK courses that have closed. To me it's about the value of having a membership, and the feeling of ownership and belonging that it evokes. I'm not sure that having to work round visitors most of the time helps that.

Niall

[Kalen Braley]

I'd be curious to know.  Have more privates closed in the US or UK over the past 10 or so years?


The two models certainly have thier pros and cons.  Pay more, in many cases a lot more, but have your own course when you want...or pay less but have the inconvenience of visitors crowing the pro shop and taking your slots, especially in high season.

[Jon Wiggett]

The fact that the clubhouse is not being replaced says to me the attitude of the members is still that it needs to suit and serve the purpose of the membership not the visitor.

I can't argue with your logic as far as the "real" demise of a club as something for its members, but if I were a rank-and-file member I would have been royally POed at not being able to get on my own course without an advance tee time.


To me, one of the real charms of courses like Brora, Tain, Fraserburgh, Golspie, etc. is that members can usually just turn up and get on THEIR golf course.


In the U.S. it's something that's possible at nearly all the private clubs, either because they keep the membership small, or because they're in a smaller town where they don't have a big pool to draw from.


I know it's selfish, but so be it.


Ken

Ken,


how many world top ten golf clubs in the US are there where the YEARLY fee for membership is under £600? and how many of them let the likes of you or me on to them to play? To be fair it is only really 3 month where the tee is very busy so I do not think it is too bad and I suspect that Dornoch could stop all outside play and still survive on the membership fees. As for the exclusive nature of many US courses. If I was paying the stupid amounts asked by many of them I would be pretty pissed off if I could not just walk on to the course but then I would have no interest in being a member of such a course as it has little to do with what golf is about for me.

I'd be curious to know.  Have more privates closed in the US or UK over the past 10 or so years?


The two models certainly have thier pros and cons.  Pay more, in many cases a lot more, but have your own course when you want...or pay less but have the inconvenience of visitors crowing the pro shop and taking your slots, especially in high season.

Kalen,


that you think the typical members' club in the UK suffers the '

inconvenience of visitors crowing the pro shop and taking your slots' show how little you understand the market over here.

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Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Golf doesn’t have to be expensive. Seems like most if not all U.K. links courses/clubs could get by with only a tiny clubhouse. Indeed in centuries gone by the local pub often sufficed. Clubhouses are a lot about ego, vanity and showing off, not about the golf. Combining a lessor clubhouse with the use four legged grazing friends doesn’t half help keep the subs down.
Atb

[David_Tepper]

"Golf doesn’t have to be expensive. Seems like most if not all U.K. links courses/clubs could get by with only a tiny clubhouse. Indeed in centuries gone by the local pub often sufficed. Clubhouses are a lot about ego, vanity and showing off, not about the golf. Combining a lessor clubhouse with the use four legged grazing friends doesn’t half help keep the subs down."

Thomas D. -

Sorry, but your gazing into the past misses the point. The reality is golf tourism is a major benefit to the economy of Scotland, responsible for 4,700 jobs and over 280 millions pounds of revenue. I suspect the "knock on" effect is even greater, when factoring in the revenue/jobs from the hospitality industry.

https://www.scottishgolf.org/golf-tourism-driving-scotlands-economy/


Having a golf course & facilities that attract visitors helps keep a number of villages in Scotland alive. It also enables a golf club to generate enough revenue to staff their golf shop and their bar/dining room.


Granted, there is a "tipping point" when visitor activity may start to crowd  out the local members and devalue the worth of a membership. I suspect 90+% of the golf clubs in Scotland are very far away from there.   


DT

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