Today at Dormie Club

[Nick Ribeiro]

Any word on plans there to switch to Champion/Bermuda greens?  In my mind, that is the key to getting that course firm and fast, as I agree that changes to the course are more important than building cottages/clubhouse.  Would shutting down for a summer kill any momentum around membership, though?  BTW, I love the experience at Ballyhack, but in Pinehurst I'd almost rather stay in town.

I've heard nothing about them switching.
I know they recently hired Clint Tolbert as Network Agronomist, basically working directly with the supers at each property. Here is a video of Clint with John Deere during his time at Nanea ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=62&v=GFfH3nJ7l_o


They also signed a contract with Deere which they will be bringing in all new equipment at all the properties. Dormie gets their shipment next spring.


Conditions should be spectacular....

[Philip Hensley]

Any word on plans there to switch to Champion/Bermuda greens?  In my mind, that is the key to getting that course firm and fast, as I agree that changes to the course are more important than building cottages/clubhouse.  Would shutting down for a summer kill any momentum around membership, though?  BTW, I love the experience at Ballyhack, but in Pinehurst I'd almost rather stay in town.

Hopefully not. Most courses in the area would benefit from that transition. But Dormie Club plays fastest and firmest in the cooler months and when the Bermuda fairways are dormant. Bermuda greens would be quite a slowdown.

[Craig Disher]

Any word on plans there to switch to Champion/Bermuda greens?  In my mind, that is the key to getting that course firm and fast, as I agree that changes to the course are more important than building cottages/clubhouse.  Would shutting down for a summer kill any momentum around membership, though?  BTW, I love the experience at Ballyhack, but in Pinehurst I'd almost rather stay in town.

Hopefully not. Most courses in the area would benefit from that transition. But Dormie Club plays fastest and firmest in the cooler months and when the Bermuda fairways are dormant. Bermuda greens would be quite a slowdown.

Fully agree. It's a lot of work maintaining the greens during the summer but so far the effort has mostly paid off with terrific greens. The previous owners vowed never to switch to Bermuda so we'll see what the the future holds.

[Mike_Young]

As GCA gradually evolves out of the jagged edged, unkept bunker look this will be the type of question we see more and more and it needs asking. 

[Jerry Kluger]

My understanding from what was done at my home club is that Champion Bermuda requires a great deal of sunlight and there are many greens at Dormie that are surrounded by trees.  I know those trees could be taken down but we are talking about a naturally heavily wooded piece of property which is going to require an enormous amount of work and money to remove all the necessary trees.

[Craig Disher]

My understanding from what was done at my home club is that Champion Bermuda requires a great deal of sunlight and there are many greens at Dormie that are surrounded by trees.  I know those trees could be taken down but we are talking about a naturally heavily wooded piece of property which is going to require an enormous amount of work and money to remove all the necessary trees.

I think the trees near most greens may be a little farther back than you remember but your point is valid. Some greens have suffered more than others - 10 e.g. Last time I visited a crew was removing two large trees on the right side of the green to bring in more light and air. They said there will be more removals elsewhere.

[Rob Hallford]

Thanks for the replies.  I live in Durham and my trips down to Dormie have been hit-or-miss on conditions (mostly miss over the last few years).  I didn't know how much to blame lack of funds/poor management and how much to attribute to fighting an uphill battle with bent greens in North Carolina. 


I've certainly noticed that with the switch to Champion at my home course we basically sacrificed great Spring conditions while the greens come out of dormancy.  Summer and Fall are spectacular (and Winter isn't too bad), but the greens aren't right until late April/Early May.  Bent would provide an opposite schedule (rough coming out of the Summer, great by Spring).  I'll definitely give Dormie a shot again, maybe on one of the warm days we always seem to get every February/early March.

[Jay Mickle]

Prior to new ownership, playing conditions were outstanding Jan.- Mar when dormant fairways played firm and fast and greens had fully recovered from summer stress.

[Paul Elam]

Thanks for the replies.  I live in Durham and my trips down to Dormie have been hit-or-miss on conditions (mostly miss over the last few years).  I didn't know how much to blame lack of funds/poor management and how much to attribute to fighting an uphill battle with bent greens in North Carolina. 


I've certainly noticed that with the switch to Champion at my home course we basically sacrificed great Spring conditions while the greens come out of dormancy.  Summer and Fall are spectacular (and Winter isn't too bad), but the greens aren't right until late April/Early May.  Bent would provide an opposite schedule (rough coming out of the Summer, great by Spring).  I'll definitely give Dormie a shot again, maybe on one of the warm days we always seem to get every February/early March.

My home club also switched to Champion Bermuda greens, and I'd agree with your assessment of the tradeoffs.  Spring 2018 was especially harsh and the champion greens really weren't right until well into June for many courses in North Carolina. 


I actually think the bent grass works for Dormie's model and location.  A public course often struggles with divot repair on bent greens because they don't have a vested interest in repairing them.  As Dormie transitions to private, this won't be as big of an issue, and the members should take better care of them. Fewer rounds will help as well.


July/August are the worst months for bent, and these are the months that Pinehurst can just be ungodly hot.  There is a reason Spring and Fall are the high season for the area, and bent makes the greens perfect for both seasons.

[ChipRoyce]

Got out to play Dormie with my son yesterday prior to a nighttime golf outing at the Cradle Short Course (Pinehurst)

On the day....
- Very brisk weather, windy with gusts 25 mph+, but warmer than I expected.- The greens were in excellent shape (should be for this time of year)- green speeds were surprisingly tame (not slow, but not fast) for the contours (can't get too fast or slopes would be out of control)- cart path only
- pace of play was horrendous! (5+ hours, blamed 2 slow groups) but not due to cart path, pro shop wasn't surprised when I called in (said pace of play standard is 4hr 35min)

As for changes to the course & experience, not a lot different since last visit (last year?), saw a few interesting things- no charge for range balls (finally, esp. at $170/rnd)
- cart paths newly graded and topped with sand
- some new cart paths being constructed (left side of 15 fairway)- #8 - drainage being installed on right side of fairway past the hill on the right, possibly some kind of containment bunker?
With all the cart path construction, almost seems as if the club is going away from encouraging walking (not creating routes from tee to green)
Still was fun and great course. Between wind and hills, seems like it plays 300+ yds longer than scorecard indicates (6500ish).  Not sure I'd want to play every day, but fun to visit 1-2x year.

BTW - did I mention the horrible pace of play?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Got out to play Dormie with my son yesterday prior to a nighttime golf outing at the Cradle Short Course (Pinehurst)

On the day....
- Very brisk weather, windy with gusts 25 mph+, but warmer than I expected.- The greens were in excellent shape (should be for this time of year)- green speeds were surprisingly tame (not slow, but not fast) for the contours (can't get too fast or slopes would be out of control)- cart path only
- pace of play was horrendous! (5+ hours, blamed 2 slow groups) but not due to cart path, pro shop wasn't surprised when I called in (said pace of play standard is 4hr 35min)

As for changes to the course & experience, not a lot different since last visit (last year?), saw a few interesting things- no charge for range balls (finally, esp. at $170/rnd)
- cart paths newly graded and topped with sand
- some new cart paths being constructed (left side of 15 fairway)- #8 - drainage being installed on right side of fairway past the hill on the right, possibly some kind of containment bunker?
With all the cart path construction, almost seems as if the club is going away from encouraging walking (not creating routes from tee to green)
Still was fun and great course. Between wind and hills, seems like it plays 300+ yds longer than scorecard indicates (6500ish).  Not sure I'd want to play every day, but fun to visit 1-2x year.

BTW - did I mention the horrible pace of play?

Was the course crowded or was it just a few slow groups that held up play?

[ChipRoyce]

Was the course crowded or was it just a few slow groups that held up play?

No, not crowded. The owners advertise "15 minute spacing of tee times". Didn't seem the case on the tee box. Mostly 2somes and 3somes on the course, just 2 groups that seemed to bring things to a halt. I get that it happens, but the pro shop didn't seem to think it was a problem.

[corey miller]

What type of membership is the Dormie Network attempting to attract with 5 hour rounds in November?

Frankly, with the way the game is now, and the network model (one member bringing three or seven guests) i find the likelihood of it ever "feeling" like the kind of club I would join very suspect. 

[Craig Disher]

Pace of play issues at private and public courses aren't the same and in my experience are dealt with differently. I haven't heard any complaints from Ballyhack which is operating under the model that DC will adopt in the near future. I think Chip's experience was an anomaly.

[corey miller]

If the "standard" pace of play expectation is 4:35, I am not sure anything you could say would convince me that over 5:00 is an anomaly.

That said, for a "member" that visits a facility twice in the course of a year...one of these type of rounds may be a deal-breaker?  36 anyone?

[Craig Disher]

I'm surprised the 4:35 time was considered standard. When DC was packed - over 150 golfers playing on a day - 4.5 hrs was probably normal but I've played during the week when the numbers were half that and times were between 3.5 and 4 hrs.

Being known for 4.5 hr rounds certainly won't attract members, especially locals, and I think the new management knows that.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What type of membership is the Dormie Network attempting to attract with 5 hour rounds in November?

Frankly, with the way the game is now, and the network model (one member bringing three or seven guests) i find the likelihood of it ever "feeling" like the kind of club I would join very suspect. 

When it goes strictly private there will be times when most of the cottages (15) will be full. However, if it is like Ballyhack most of the time play will be sparse. I think Bhack still gets fewer than 10,000 rounds a year. The ownership knows that guys are not going to make the trip for a five hour rounds. One of the things that makes Ballyhack special is the small number of local members. You get to know many of them so there is very much a club feel to the place.

[Philip Hensley]

Let’s pump the brakes on the overreaction train.


I played the same day, and in 6 hours I played 18, had lunch and a drink, then played an emergency 9 with a group of 5.

[Jay Mickle]

One of the things that makes Ballyhack special is the small number of local members.

I would expect local membership at Dormie to also be quite small as for about the same monthly dues one could have 9 courses at Pinehurst plus Mid Pines and Pine Needles. As a destination for all of the other network members it may be a great option.

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of the things that makes Ballyhack special is the small number of local members.

I would expect local membership at Dormie to also be quite small as for about the same monthly dues one could have 9 courses at Pinehurst plus Mid Pines and Pine Needles. As a destination for all of the other network members it may be a great option.

Jay, what does it cost to belong to Pinehurst?

[Nick Ribeiro]

When I was there Dormie Network was accepting public play due to all the packages sold including Dormie before they purchased the club. They wanted to give the public the chance to get the rounds in they had already paid for so the club was to remain public till the end of this year or next? I can't remember.


At 5 hour rounds, I assume this is still the case. When it goes fully private I doubt there will be 5 hour rounds....

[Craig Disher]

I would expect local membership at Dormie to also be quite small as for about the same monthly dues one could have 9 courses at Pinehurst plus Mid Pines and Pine Needles. As a destination for all of the other network members it may be a great option.

Jay,
DC is expensive for local members but the yearly dues are less than the combined dues for 1-9 at Pinehurst and MidPines/Pine Needles. After being public for so long, it will be interesting to see how much local loyalty there is for DC.

[Steve Sayre]

"When it goes strictly private there will be times when most of the cottages (15) will be full."

I think the probability of 15 cottages (or 5 for that matter) ever being built at Dormie Club is approximately zero.

Nothing to do with the design quality of the course, conditioning, pace of play, very pretty and peaceful setting, etc. ---- just plain economics. Lots of Pinehurst/Aberdeen accommodation options, lots of great golf options in Pinehurst for travelers and residents alike, West End location a bit remote (especially after dinner)...

Build it and they will come?  Maybe, but I'm not a believer.  Having said that, I hope I am wrong.  Be good all around. And it is a very nice course as most everyone agrees.

[Tommy Williamsen]

"When it goes strictly private there will be times when most of the cottages (15) will be full."

I think the probability of 15 cottages (or 5 for that matter) ever being built at Dormie Club is approximately zero.

Check back next year. I think you'll be surprised. The course was purchased with cottages in mind.

[Jeff Loh]

I purchased my house with a pool in mind.
Never happened...