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JHoulihan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« on: October 06, 2018, 06:37:34 PM »
This book was one of about 10 recently purchased. Here are my highlights.
1. Page 56 Adjustable Tees
"The modern course should either have tees fifty yards long, or three or four seperate tees at every hole.
2. Page 65 Long and Short Par 4's
"The drive-and-long approach is a pleasing length and must have its place on every first-class layout. By this I mean one that demands a lond second to the green, a hole say, from 425 to 450 yards, according to the lay of the land and wind conditions. I favor at least two holes of this length on each 9...Tees should be located as near to the putting greens as possible without endangering players. Long walks to the tees cause much dissatidfaction."
3. Page 68 Many long courses are uninteresting
"The desireable length for a good course is from 6000 to 6400 yards"
4. Page 86. Picture of Dayton (OH) country club green complex
5. Page 183. Dornoch
"Modesty forbids me saying more than it is the most beautifully situated links in the world, and that no American golfer should omit to go there, where he will find the best golf, a royal welcome, and no rabble"
Rabble meaning a disorderly crowd or mob.
6. Behind the scene on a project (Bob O'Link, Chicago IL, 1916)
"I could see propositions here and there, but I had to be cognizant of such things as these: a) alternating holes with the wind ... b) taking advantage of the lay of the land for long and short holes...c) presenting every possibility as I saw them. One of the main things to get away from is the cut-and-dried idea of having one parallel hole after another. d) wasting no ground e) making no holes overlap or conflict f) staking out my hazards with an eye toward their usefulness, not only on one hole, but as help for another...The course should be a pleasure to golfers, rather than a monotony. Putting greens must not be flat and regular. They, too, must present their puzzles. The putt must be just as much a reason for study as the drive or pitch...I do not believe in making the course too hard. That is quite easy to do. I believe a course should be laid out in such a manner that the good short golfer can get to the green quite as well as the long hitter. You know, the average players is the man whose game ranges between 90 and 108, and he has to be taken into consideration. Taking it all around, the demand today for up-to-date golf courses contains these points: a) It must be a sporty course, not an easy drive, pitch, and putt affair b) It must be as scenic as possible c) The hazards should be real, not merely holes cut in the ground here and there and banked, or ditches dug, and streams deflected d) trees must be removed where they interfere, but so many must not be taken away as to spoil the beauty of a course f) above all, it must be a test of the best golf a player is capable of"

Overall a very easy read similar in format to Doak's "Little Red Book" The end also has a course list of course listed by state so you can find options to play both locally and afar. In 1935 he listed work in 45 of 48 states excluding Arizona, Montana and Utah (also Hawaii and Alaska which had tey to become states).

For others that have read this, what was your take?

Justin
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:05:59 PM by JHoulihan »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 05:45:20 AM »
I believe the format is similar because like the Little Red Book, Ross's is a compilation of smaller pieces he had written over the years, not a purpose-written book.


I wish he'd written more about how he did his routings.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 11:05:00 AM »
My take?


Ross was a golf course architecture genius.


For 19 years I played about all my golf at a little-known Ross course in Topeka, KS, and over time I came to understand just how good he was. (In a couple of cases you have to overlook the damage done at least one well-intentioned member with earth-moving equipment.)


Your point #6 comes into play over and over again. True parallel holes, like those at Firestone, are virtually nonexistent.  The distribution of hole lengths from ~135 yards to 555 yards is almost perfectly done.  In the era when it was built it asked for very long approaches to some of the two-shot holes, and probably a brassie or driver on the longest par three.  But the finishing hole is 310 yards, a drive and a pitch.


Interestingly, his contemporary, George Thomas wrote that it's nice to have the third and fifteenth greens near the clubhouse wo you can pick up your match if you miss a tee time, and, mote importantly, since most match end on 14, 15 or 16, you only have one hole to walk back to the clubhouse.  This course does exactly that.


It's on only about 125 acres, and in playing hundreds (thousands?) of rounds there in 19 years, I remember a handful of balls from other holes landing in my fairway and none of them endangered me or my fellow golfers.) Some of that is due to trees on the property, but mostly it's down to truly excellent routing.


As for play, at pat 71 and ~6400 yards, it was the first course I ever played that met a standard I proposed for great courses about 20 years before I moved to Topeka.  I said a great course in my view would be easy to break 90 and hard to break par. Modern technology has hurt the last part, but it's still mostly valid.  No good player I know ever said it was easy, but a lot of high handicappers from Topeka Country Club think it's easy, because it doesn't beat them to death like their home course.


Finally, it's the kind of course that can produce really good young players.  Gary Woodland learned to play there, and I believe that if his family had moved to Topeka Country Club when he was 9 yesrs old, instead of when he was 16, he'd have never developed into the player he is.  At Shawnee CC the routing and much less intrusive presence of trees let him learn to bomb it.  At TCC virtually none of the young players at the time could hit it anywhere.


That book, and that golf course, convinced me that Ross was genius.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 11:50:39 AM »

For background, when I was Prez of ASGCA back in 1995, Dave Gordon had found the Ross manuscripts in his attic.  I think Jb McGovern had it for years.  Like other archies, Ross intended to write a book as a marketing tool (mostly, I think) but WWI intervened, and later, he was apparently too busy to finish it.  ASGCA quickly took it on through their foundation.


As written, it was a bit unreadable, and ASGCA brought in Ron Whitten to edit it down greatly. I think it was Ron who suggested the Little Red Book format.  He minimized changes to the text to keep it authentic, and added other quotes from later years.  I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.


I always enjoyed it, and now that you mention it, have pulled it off the shelf for my in flight reading for my trip tomorrow.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »

 I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.



As someone who worked with the same publisher, I can say that part of the appeal of a Ross book was having 400 pro shops that might sell a few of them.  It's a little different than a book about George Thomas! 😉

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 06:05:53 PM »

 I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.



As someone who worked with the same publisher, I can say that part of the appeal of a Ross book was having 400 pro shops that might sell a few of them.  It's a little different than a book about George Thomas! 😉


About fifteen years ago, I found two copies of your MacK CPC book in the Special Tee Golf and Tennis shop on I-Drive in Orlando. Most unexpected!
Bought them both, gave one to a friend. Just love it. The on-site photos of MacKenzie still give me chills.
Best,
M.


PS Actually just remembered I made Nancy buy me my copy as a birthday gift!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:07:40 PM by Marty Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 10:49:35 PM »
For me the most telling of Justin's quotes was the one praising Dornoch. The rest had an air of golden-age-architect boiler-plate marketing; that one seemed to bubble up from a simple love of great golf course architecture.
P

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 11:52:37 PM »

4. Page 86. Picture of Dayton (OH) country club green complex



Does it say which green complex?

JHoulihan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 12:17:51 AM »
Joe,


Hole 10 is pictured. Sorry I do not have a online account to upload the photo. I could post it to my instagram account later if that helps.


Justin

Tommy Naccarato

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 05:48:29 PM »

 I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.



As someone who worked with the same publisher, I can say that part of the appeal of a Ross book was having 400 pro shops that might sell a few of them.  It's a little different than a book about George Thomas! 😉


About fifteen years ago, I found two copies of your MacK CPC book in the Special Tee Golf and Tennis shop on I-Drive in Orlando. Most unexpected!
Bought them both, gave one to a friend. Just love it. The on-site photos of MacKenzie still give me chills.
Best,
M.


PS Actually just remembered I made Nancy buy me my copy as a birthday gift!


Brother Martin Lad,
I believe you mean Geoff Shackelford’s Book on CPC?


Tom Doak, I feel The Captain is a worthy assessment of the man known as Captain Thomas. It’s both a biography and an assessment of his design philosophy and his courses, also paying tribute to his right hand man, William Park Bell.  But you know this when you used the book at Bel Air!  Also amazing is the fact if it wasn’t for you writing about that book in Golf magazine, I wouldn’t have got to know Geoff Shackelford, who happened to eventually become one of my dearest friends! 

Funny how that works!



« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 09:11:48 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 01:17:53 AM »

 I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.



As someone who worked with the same publisher, I can say that part of the appeal of a Ross book was having 400 pro shops that might sell a few of them.  It's a little different than a book about George Thomas! 😉


About fifteen years ago, I found two copies of your MacK CPC book in the Special Tee Golf and Tennis shop on I-Drive in Orlando. Most unexpected!
Bought them both, gave one to a friend. Just love it. The on-site photos of MacKenzie still give me chills.
Best,
M.


PS Actually just remembered I made Nancy buy me my copy as a birthday gift!


Brother Martin Lad,
I believe you mean Geoff Shackelford’s Book on CPC?



Eek!
This early-onset senility is really starting to kick in...
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 02:05:48 AM »
Joe,


Hole 10 is pictured. Sorry I do not have a online account to upload the photo. I could post it to my instagram account later if that helps.


Justin


Interesting.  I was under the impression Ross only did 9 holes there.  The book is on my christmas list so I'll check it out in the next couple months.

Tommy Naccarato

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 09:09:46 AM »

 I could be wrong now, but at one time, it was one of the better selling architecture books, second at one point to the CW 3 printings of The Golf Course/Architects of Golf.



As someone who worked with the same publisher, I can say that part of the appeal of a Ross book was having 400 pro shops that might sell a few of them.  It's a little different than a book about George Thomas! 😉


About fifteen years ago, I found two copies of your MacK CPC book in the Special Tee Golf and Tennis shop on I-Drive in Orlando. Most unexpected!
Bought them both, gave one to a friend. Just love it. The on-site photos of MacKenzie still give me chills.
Best,
M.


PS Actually just remembered I made Nancy buy me my copy as a birthday gift!


Brother Martin Lad,
I believe you mean Geoff Shackelford’s Book on CPC?



Eek!
This early-onset senility is really starting to kick in...
F.


No worries mate!  I’m right there in that old age home with you!  😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Has Never Failed Me by Donald Ross
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 02:28:32 AM »
Tommy Nacc. to FBD:   "No worries mate!"


Multiculturalism at work as California's big man makes sure Scotland's big man is in no way concerned.


We in Oz are in awes of you two using and understanding this classic Aussie throwaway line!
Maybe you have both forgotten yer origins given that the topic of conversation was early onset Alzheimers!


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

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