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Wade Whitehead

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Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« on: August 19, 2018, 09:07:21 PM »
The Dormie Network is a new national family of golf-only clubs, presently including Arbor Links (Arnold Palmer, NE), Briggs Ranch (Tom Fazio, TX), Ballyhack (Lester George, VA), Dormie Club (Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw, NC), and, as of this month, Victoria National (Tom Fazio, IN).  Ultimately, DN plans to own and manage between 12 and 20 high-end, architecturally noteworthy courses spread across the country.

National membership includes all courses.  Limited local memberships are available at each property (limited to 75-100 at each site).  DN is investing heavily in course improvements and infrastructure, including four bedroom, four bathroom cottages at all sites (very similar to ours at Ballyhack), new clubhouses at Arbor Links and Dormie Club, and new maintenance facilities and equipment.

Guest and cottage fees are uniform across properties.  Guests may visit once a month and no more than four times each year.

Focus is on pure golf, with exceptional lodging, food (including Piedmontese beef (same ownership)), and service.  Properties all share convenient interstate and airport access but have the feel of a destination club once inside the gates.

I can attest to significant improvements at Ballyhack.  An increased maintenance budget, several new cottages, a new maintenance building and equipment, numerous service-related upgrades, and a fine attention to detail are yielding the best experience yet.  Word is that Dormie Club will see at least a dozen cottages and a new clubhouse in the next year.  DC will schedule limited public play in 2019, and will become private in 2020.

Many of our members have traveled to play other properties and we often see members from other sites.  The Network's first annual Global Member-Guest will be played in October and will rotate through courses year to year.  There's lots of talk about inter-club matches and about starting a yearly competition between individual club champions.

As far as I know, this is the first time anyone has acquired a national family of golf-only clubs that combine individually unique attributes with a network-wide culture for service, playing conditions, lodging, food, and beverage.

Of course, as DN certainly seems to understand, none of this works without the centerpiece of great golf.  Most resources go directly toward world-class playing surfaces that allow courses that play exactly as they were designed to.

Is anyone aware of any similar effort to build a national set of clubs under one membership?  I'm not.

Are there other owners who are acquiring and improving such notable courses on this sort of scale?

I look forward to questions and discussion.

WW


PS Glad to post photos if someone can help.  Can't get them to appear for some reason.


PPS George Cup VIII spots are still available.  See that thread for details.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 10:51:29 PM by Wade Whitehead »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 10:57:19 PM »

Arbor Links



Victoria National


Ballyhack and her beautiful children


Briggs Ranch



Dormie Club
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:51:31 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 12:12:26 AM »
Wade - McConnell Golf has a similar model on a regional scale... NC, SC, TN.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 01:04:37 AM »
Wade - McConnell Golf has a similar model on a regional scale... NC, SC, TN.


The McConnell network is similar in that he owns eleven different clubs. Where it is different is that only two have many national members, The Reserve Club in Pawleys and Musgrove Mill in Clinton, SC. They are also the only true golf clubs. The rest are country clubs. Only Musgrove, Old North State, and Sedgefield have lodging. Even then there is limited lodging. I think Sedgefield can house six, Musgrove twelve. I'm not sure about ONS. The McConnell model is to build a strong local membership and give playing rights to any member of one the clubs. You can only play at other clubs a dozen times a year. Ballyhack can house 28 in seven cottages.


The Dormie model is to have a limited local membership and build a network of national members who bring clients/business partners/friends for a few days of golf and in some cases meetings. If a local member spends, say, $45 each time he plays and eats, a guest will spend $450 a day. Bring seven guys for a weekend and the club makes some $6000.There have been times all seven of the Ballyhack cottages have been filled. In the Dormie network each member is a full member at the other clubs with unlimited play.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 01:06:22 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Greg Chambers

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 01:30:02 AM »
Thanks for the advertisement.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 06:26:15 AM »
Thanks for the advertisement.
Greg: I hope the original post is taken as a discussion of a new ownership model that is producing some great golf in an era more dominated by course closings and some withering on the vine.  It's not intended as an advertisement, just as information about Dormie Network's approach and goals.

I have wondered previously why no one has built a collection like this but barriers are significant, including that high quality courses don't become available that often and significant capitalization is required.

If wonder if architects would be willing to chime in regarding what ownership structures please them the most.  Are unwanted course changes more or less likely to occur in a single-owner arrangement?  Does this sort of structure make communication (and, therefore, designer influence and input) easier?

WW

Jeff Loh

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 09:23:32 AM »
How does American Beef receive an Italian Appellation?

Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
Will be interesting to see if this works. Seems like the golf industry is going the model of appealing to the 1% (or maybe 5%) who can travel and willing to drop thousands of dollars to play a place twice a year that is truly special. This goes for national memberships as well as Keiser type properties - which has already proven that the formula works.

Jeff Schley

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 12:19:11 AM »
Isn’t the Trump network of clubs similar that fits your description?  You get access to all the other privates in the network, although I don’t know the cost, if any. 
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 12:23:21 PM »
I think the uniqueness of the Dormie model is that it is building a network of national membership clubs. I don't know anyone else who has even tried that.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

ChipRoyce

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 02:11:03 PM »
I think the uniqueness of the Dormie model is that it is building a network of national membership clubs. I don't know anyone else who has even tried that.
Seems same as Trump to me, with emphasis on travel/playing away from home.

SB

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 02:45:18 PM »
It's not really the same as Trump, because Trump members, like McConnell, are joining their club first and foremost, and being able to play the others is just a perk of membership.  ClubCorp's ONE program is a little closer, as you have to pay an additional charge (I think $35 a month) to be able to travel and play.  It's a little different, though because you get some other perks as well - namely 50% off food.  American Golf used to have something called the National Golf Club, which you could join if you were a member of one of their better private clubs, and it gave you full access to all of their other good private clubs.  I don't recall the cost or how successful it was.  Most of those courses weren't really targeted at national membership types, mostly just solid local clubs.  Pacific Links started to do it, but that is targeted mostly at Chinese nationals.  I'd say Outpost is probably the closest thing, but obviously they don't own their courses.  Also not sure how the price compares.

Robert Emmons

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 03:24:51 PM »
When I was a member of TPC Sawgrass, you had access to all the other TPC clubs. a reasonable green fee with a dedicated tee time concierge made it very easy. In fact I think I played more at the other clubs than Sawgrass...RHE

Philip Hensley

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 04:57:00 PM »
The main difference I see between this and other network clubs is that they are trying to buy remarkable courses that you travel to, for the course itself.


When you are ClubCorp member you go to where you are going anyways, and see what in the area is in your network and play there.


With the DN, you are traveling specifically to play that course. Or use that course as your base while you travel to an area to play other courses. For instance, you go to Dormie Club and play other Pinehurst courses.

Nick Ribeiro

Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 05:04:41 PM »

I was at Dormie Club earlier this year and Ballyhack this year and last. Not exactly sure when the DN acquired Ballyhack but I feel like it was a fairly new property for them the first time I visited. There has been discussion and doubt across the internet regarding the concept and if it will work or not, I will say with confidence I am sold and excited to see where it goes. Ballyhack is night and day between my 2 visits. The investments being made at Ballyhack (cottages, cart barn, maintenance facility, experienced staff, turf equipment, and all the little details) are proof the owners are in it for the long term. With the pick up of Victoria National I can't imagine whats next. The future plans for Dormie Club are posted in the club house and there is no doubt in my mind they will get done.


With that said, and to answer the original question, I do not know of any other competitor. The closest thing I can compare it to is the private Bandon Dunes / Sand Valley / Cabot without the masses and long rounds.


Wade Whitehead

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2018, 06:17:02 PM »
Differences, I think, between DN and Trump (and TPC) properties: (1) Dormie Network is pure golf.  No tennis.  No pool.  No country club.  (2) I'm not sure that all Trump properties have lodging on site.  (3) Trump members (and TPC, as mentioned above) pay a discounted rate at other connected courses but don't enjoy the full benefits of membership when "on the road."  If I travel to play other Dormie Network clubs (as a local member at one), I pay ZERO for golf (no cart fee, nothing), just cottage and lodging.

One interesting aspect is that the number of players on site at any particular DN club self regulates.  With a certain number of on-site rooms available, only so many nationals can visit at any particular time, so the you've-got-the-whole-course-to-yourself feel doesn't go away, even on a "busy" weekend.

WW

JESII

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2018, 06:24:36 PM »
Certainly seems like an interesting concept, more interesting to me than the ClubCorp model.


Best of luck.

JC Jones

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 07:34:31 PM »
Kavanaugh has always wanted to be a member of a consortium.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jeff Loh

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 11:17:59 PM »
Is it true there are new cart paths at Dormie?

Nick Ribeiro

Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2018, 11:30:42 PM »
Is it true there are new cart paths at Dormie?


I believe at the moment testing a new sand based product for new cart paths.

John Foley

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2018, 08:36:19 AM »
Friends were there last week and they were going in. I do not believe it's wall-wall just fixing some trouble spots.


I really like what I hear about this. Love Dormie & Ballyhack and the $$ is reasonable.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Buck Wolter

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2018, 11:13:15 AM »
Certainly seems like an interesting concept, more interesting to me than the ClubCorp model.


Best of luck.

There is no better deal in golf than ClubCorp Travel -- especially if you live in a $25/month state
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2018, 12:10:41 PM »
Certainly seems like an interesting concept, more interesting to me than the ClubCorp model.


Best of luck.

There is no better deal in golf than ClubCorp Travel -- especially if you live in a $25/month state

Trouble is they don't have very many interesting courses. Other than Davenport and Broadmoor (Indy) there aren't many I get excited about. They had Pete Dye GC but its gone.

Are there any you like Buck that I'm overlooking?

Jeff Loh

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2018, 01:17:28 PM »
Heard Lester George to design par 3 course. Why not Bill Coore?

Buck Wolter

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Re: Dormie Network: Unique In the World of [American] Golf?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2018, 02:04:13 PM »
Davenport is relatively close to me so that alone makes it worthwhile though I've only played once in my year of being a member, I plan more detours in the future after my play first this summer. I have a son that plays and 2 rounds at nice private/resort courses In Phoenix over spring break for $20 cart fees more than paid for my year and made a Wee Ko Pa round much easier to justify.  I agree that there aren't many must plays but you don't have to try to get access -- you just call the clubline if you want a tee time. Another member I know describes it as faster --faster play and faster greens than public options.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

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