[Nigel Islam]

I'm a little confused.....so If I double hit my ball, its one stroke?    Or I count them both but its no penalty ON TOP OF THAT....

My suspicion is this is eliminated as the sensitivity of sensing a double hit varies greatly from golfer to golfer.


Not to mention as Peter mentioned the intentional double strike only works well in old Nike commercials.

[Jeff Schley]

I have done the double hit on a putt a couple times and a chip shot once.  Weird as you never think it is possible.  I would have thought another rule that is odd and extra penal is if you hit yourself with the ball.  Remember Jeff Mallert at ANGC in the mid 2000's when he didn't clear the lip of a bunker and it hit him.  2 strokes and IMO way too penal, if you just had the wording that no penalty so as the player didn't intentionally get hit with the ball.  With the loosening of the dumb rules like double hits/pin in the hole when putting etc. this would have been another to get rid of.

They did.

(3) Ball in Motion Accidentally Deflected Your ball in motion accidentally hits you, your equipment, your caddie, someone attending the flagstick for you or a removed or attended flagstick: There is no longer a penalty (such as when your ball bounces off a bunker face and hits you).

Good catch... then great minds think alike!

[Michael Graham]

The reduction in time allowed to look for a lost ball from five to three minutes could make a big difference in professional tournaments. It often seems that a ball is found just before the allotted five minutes are up. Could mean a lot more cart rides back to the tee.

[Pete_Pittock]

The stroke and distance penalty for out of bounds always bothered me.  My home course has about 10 holes with OB right.  Nice to see they changed it.

It's still essentially a stroke and distance penalty (as it's TWO shots, not one).  It just doesn't require you to go back to rehit.

I don't understand the attention to shots that are double hit.  How often do any of us actually see this?  Once every couple of years?

A few rules may change but pace of play on television will remain glacial.

WW

I double-hit a chip shot within the last month. I suspect that the additional one stroke play was eliminated because the double-hit shot probably finished in a much worse position than the shot would have attained without the double hit.  Eliminating the penalty stroke also speeds up play because there will be no discussion/huddle over the matter,

[Pete_Pittock]

The proposed rules should help to improve pace of play. However, would someone be able to shed some light as to why dropping from knee height is better for the game than shoulder height is? I simply do not understand why changing the height of the drop is necessary when I have never seen any problem with it.

Kevin,
You are taking relief from a lateral water hazard (red). You get two club lengths, no closer to the hole. Occasionally, because the edge of the hazard parallels the "no closer to the hole" line, this leaves a narrow sliver for the dropped ball to hit to be a proper drop. A drop from knee high is more likely to hit the sliver than a drop from shoulder high. I have supervised scenarios when the number of drops was in double figures.
As someone else mentioned, the shorter drop height will cause the ball to hit the ground with lesser velocity, reducing the amount of roll.
Unless I am told otherwise, I would accept a drop from a golfer standing erect with arm in normal hanging position. With arms hanging my fingers reach the top of knee, and I am not a freak of nature (maybe debatable).

[Kalen Braley]

Pete,


How did it hit double figures?  I thought it was two drops and then place?  Or is that just a PGA Tour rule?

[Jeff Schley]

The proposed rules should help to improve pace of play. However, would someone be able to shed some light as to why dropping from knee height is better for the game than shoulder height is? I simply do not understand why changing the height of the drop is necessary when I have never seen any problem with it.

Kevin,
You are taking relief from a lateral water hazard (red). You get two club lengths, no closer to the hole. Occasionally, because the edge of the hazard parallels the "no closer to the hole" line, this leaves a narrow sliver for the dropped ball to hit to be a proper drop. A drop from knee high is more likely to hit the sliver than a drop from shoulder high. I have supervised scenarios when the number of drops was in double figures.
As someone else mentioned, the shorter drop height will cause the ball to hit the ground with lesser velocity, reducing the amount of roll.
Unless I am told otherwise, I would accept a drop from a golfer standing erect with arm in normal hanging position. With arms hanging my fingers reach the top of knee, and I am not a freak of nature (maybe debatable).

Whatch the USGA videos as they demonstrate it several times.

[Pete_Pittock]

Pete,


How did it hit double figures?  I thought it was two drops and then place?  Or is that just a PGA Tour rule?

Two "legal" drops, then place. In incorrect drop (too low, spun, hitting the person, hitting outide the prescribed area) doesn't count toward the two drop maximum.

[Pete_Pittock]

The proposed rules should help to improve pace of play. However, would someone be able to shed some light as to why dropping from knee height is better for the game than shoulder height is? I simply do not understand why changing the height of the drop is necessary when I have never seen any problem with it.

Kevin,
You are taking relief from a lateral water hazard (red). You get two club lengths, no closer to the hole. Occasionally, because the edge of the hazard parallels the "no closer to the hole" line, this leaves a narrow sliver for the dropped ball to hit to be a proper drop. A drop from knee high is more likely to hit the sliver than a drop from shoulder high. I have supervised scenarios when the number of drops was in double figures.
As someone else mentioned, the shorter drop height will cause the ball to hit the ground with lesser velocity, reducing the amount of roll.
Unless I am told otherwise, I would accept a drop from a golfer standing erect with arm in normal hanging position. With arms hanging my fingers reach the top of knee, and I am not a freak of nature (maybe debatable).

Whatch the USGA videos as they demonstrate it several times.

I watched the videos. That still doesn't change the fact that my fingertips barely touch they tippy top of the knee. I did notice in a number of videos the flexing of knees.

[Tom_Doak]

Pete:


You are a total freak of nature just to understand the Rules that well.

[James Reader]

I assumed that the new out of bounds or lost ball rule would mean dropping within x club lengths of the point where the ball went OOB or was lost. In fact, having read the detail, you’ll be able to drop it on the fairway at the nearest point.  Is it just me or does that feel like it’s going to significantly reduce the pressure of a tight OOB?  I can also imagine there’ll be times when you’ll be disappointed to have found your ball and only have 2 club’s length to drop it. Will undoubtedly speed up play a lot though.

[David_Elvins]

I have done the double hit on a putt a couple times and a chip shot once.  Weird as you never think it is possible.  I would have thought another rule that is odd and extra penal is if you hit yourself with the ball.  Remember Jeff Mallert at ANGC in the mid 2000's when he didn't clear the lip of a bunker and it hit him.  2 strokes and IMO way too penal, if you just had the wording that no penalty so as the player didn't intentionally get hit with the ball.  With the loosening of the dumb rules like double hits/pin in the hole when putting etc. this would have been another to get rid of.

They did.

(3) Ball in Motion Accidentally Deflected Your ball in motion accidentally hits you, your equipment, your caddie, someone attending the flagstick for you or a removed or attended flagstick: There is no longer a penalty (such as when your ball bounces off a bunker face and hits you).

Good catch... then great minds think alike!

Is there any indication as to what is to stop a playing partner helpfully laying down the flagstick in a place behind the hole where it might be accidently struck?  We already have a problem eith playing partners leaving their balls in a spot where it may be struck.  Opening this tactic up to putting and flagsticks seems unwise on face value.

[Peter Flory]

The reduction in time allowed to look for a lost ball from five to three minutes could make a big difference in professional tournaments. It often seems that a ball is found just before the allotted five minutes are up. Could mean a lot more cart rides back to the tee.

This rule change to speed up play might slow it down. 


I'm not sure that I'm in favor of this one.  So many tournament rounds take close to 5 hrs.  What is an extra 2 minutes of savings when it comes to the once a round happening when you actually need to look for your ball?  I'm just thinking of amateur tournament play, where the spotters don't care, there are no galleries, and you're usually playing a somewhat unfamiliar course.  It's fairly easy to lose your ball in the rough on occasion when you know that it is there if you search hard enough. 


It's a problem that the pros rarely have to deal with. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

I don't understand the attention to shots that are double hit.  How often do any of us actually see this?  Once every couple of years?

We have a player who double-hits it every couple of rounds, never mind every couple of years. We nicknamed him "T.C.".    He'll be very happy now, but the tag sticks.

[Matthew Essig]

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/text/an-overview-of-the-rules-modernization-initiative.html


This page has the whole set of rules changes under section #2.


Some rules that caught me a little off-guard are


-Elimination of opposite side relief option: You are no longer allowed to take relief from a red penalty area on the opposite side from where the ball last entered the penalty area (unless a Committee adopts a Local Rule allowing it).

-Elimination of need to announce intent to lift ball: When you have good reason to lift your ball to identify it, to see if it is cut or cracked or to see if you are entitled to relief (such as to see if the ball is embedded), you are no longer required first to announce to another player or your marker that you intend to do so or to give that person an opportunity to observe the process.

[Cliff Hamm]

I believe one of the proposed rules had been to allow to keep the flagstick in the cup when putting.   Was that dropped?

[Matthew Essig]

I believe one of the proposed rules had been to allow to keep the flagstick in the cup when putting.   Was that dropped?

Nope. Still in there.

[Daryl David]

The Irish Drop is now official.


Interesting they didnt float that for consideration first.

I always thought the Irish drop was only one penalty shot. At least this proposed local rule has you hitting 4 after tossing your ball back into the fairway.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Is there any indication as to what is to stop a playing partner helpfully laying down the flagstick in a place behind the hole where it might be accidently struck?  We already have a problem eith playing partners leaving their balls in a spot where it may be struck.  Opening this tactic up to putting and flagsticks seems unwise on face value.

Yeah, that's not accidental. If it's intentional, it's a violation.

I believe one of the proposed rules had been to allow to keep the flagstick in the cup when putting.   Was that dropped?

Dumb. Totally stupid to have left that in there. The USGA/R&A appear to have done no research.

Just imagine how much Scott Hoch at Augusta or Doug Sanders at St. Andrews would pay to have putted with the flagstick in. It'll help on testy three- and four-footers, and it'll help on downhill putts that might slide well past the hole, and it will help with putts outside of 20 or 25' where you can't guarantee you're going to stop the ball within about 3' past the hole.

It may actually slow things down. Someone with an 11' uphill putt may take it out, and then his opponent with a 10' downhill putt may put it back in. Then they may take it out or put it back depending on their next putt.

[John Connolly]

I don't like putting with the stick in. In the unlikely event my ball goes in, it's hard(er) to get out.

My favorite change?  Caddies can no longer stand behind the player to get them lined up.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

My favorite change?  Caddies can no longer stand behind the player to get them lined up.

I love that one.

[Jeff Schley]

My favorite change?  Caddies can no longer stand behind the player to get them lined up.

I love that one.

Yeah this was so prevalent in the LPGA, I mean have you ever seen the caddie pull off the player from the shot?  It was meaningless.

[John McCarthy]

Deleted old dumb joke.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Yeah this was so prevalent in the LPGA, I mean have you ever seen the caddie pull off the player from the shot?  It was meaningless.

Twice. Once with Paula Creamer, once with some player who hasn't really had a name before or since (I saw this one live at the Jamie Farr tournament). I know it's twice because they both stood out to me as so surprising, so shocking, so unusual.

I watch a decent amount of LPGA Tour golf, too. When Tiger wasn't playing, I watched much more of it than the men. Now it's almost equal. (My 15yo daughter plays golf.)

[Jerry Kluger]

So if I understand this correctly, you hit a bad tee shot and it goes out of bounds so now you can hit your 4th shot where the ball went out or if you lose a ball you can add two strokes and play from the spot where you thought it should be but you now know it isn't.

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