[Tom_Doak]

Since Martin Slumbers made his remarks about the golf ball, there have been articles for two successive weeks in GLOBAL GOLF POST about the equipment debate ... both coming down on the side of "nothing needs to be done", "oh what a tragedy it would be to bifurcate," and picking apart Jack Nicklaus' math on how much the ball should be rolled back.  Of course, I took these to be hit pieces by a publication that is principally financed by the advertisements of golf equipment companies, and thought nothing more about them.


But then I read something this morning that deserves repeating here:


"Economic insecurity worsens the condition.  Journalists are currently in the most insecure profession you can find:  the majority live hand to mouth, and ostracism by their friends would be terminal.  Thus they become easily prone to manipulation by lobbyists, as we saw with GMOs, the Syrian wars, etc."


So, golf publications do not have to assign their writers to try and destroy effective arguments against equipment reform ... because the journalists themselves are the ones most vulnerable to the pulling of advertising.  Whether they think about it or not, they are doing the bidding of the big companies for whom they really work.


So whose voice should we believe:  the "independent" journalist, or the guy who played competitively his whole life, and has no fear of equipment companies?


P.S.  I was surprised to see Jack Nicklaus name Titleist directly in his latest statement.  That was an escalation of the war.

[JESII]

Interesting observation Tom. Yes, I guess everybody knows where their bread is buttered, don't they!


But, that doesn't reconcile the fact that there really isn't a coherent reasoning/rationale/direction behind the "roll-backers".


Most say it's simply not golf to have Dustin Johnson hitting Driver-Wedge 500 yards...ok, but he (and his ilk) represent about 0.01% of the golfing population.
Many say the sustainability of ever expanding golf courses needs to be the motivation...ok, it's still only the 0.01% of golfers that hit the ball the distances justifying larger properties.
Some cite the safety issue of longer off-line shots...ok, what's the math?
Bifurcation seems like the easy route...ok, but isn't just forgetting about the scores the top guys shoot even easier?


I hate to cast aspersions on Jack, but what's in it for him if the ball is rolled back?

[John Kavanaugh]

The 80 year old who has been fortunate enough to drive super cars his adult life will be the first to tell his grandchildren that 300 hp is enough for anyone. It's common sense but just maybe it's our turn to enjoy life and hit it like Jack did.

[Tom_Doak]

I hate to cast aspersions on Jack, but what's in it for him if the ball is rolled back?

Since Jack has always been in the equipment business, I used to think he might be angling to make that business more competitive by changing the rules.  But he's really not in that business now, so I do think he is just saying what he thinks is the right thing to do.


Pete Dye has been saying the same exact thing for at least 35 years since I worked for him, and he doesn't stand to make a nickel out of a change.  Nor, to JK's point, was Pete a long hitter.


To be clear, we can just ignore what the Tour pros are doing.  I've been trying to ignore them for 20-30 years now.  But they have such an outsized influence on the golf business!  Can you tell me that you think their distance HASN'T had a huge effect on what sort of courses people build, or how many clubs feel the need for major renovations?

[John Kavanaugh]

As far as Pete Dye goes: What if you were the very best at making scary movies and no one got scared anymore? Wouldn't you look for a solution beyond remaking every movie?

[JESII]

To be clear, we can just ignore what the Tour pros are doing.  I've been trying to ignore them for 20-30 years now.  But they have such an outsized influence on the golf business!  Can you tell me that you think their distance HASN'T had a huge effect on what sort of courses people build, or how many clubs feel the need for major renovations?

No, I cannot...clearly it has. People (your clients) are making decisions against their best interests and so we want to adjust the market to fit their interests?!?


It's obviously not just your clients...it's pretty much every single entity involved in the decision making at golf courses...

[JESII]

As far as Pete Dye goes: What if you were the very best at making scary movies and no one got scared anymore? Wouldn't you look for a solution beyond remaking every movie?

They still get scared...tell them they have 11 shots to play the last three at Sawgrass for $2,000,000 and watch what happens.

[MCirba]

They still get scared...tell them they have 11 shots to play the last three at Sawgrass for $2,000,000 and watch what happens.

I did it in 14 shots in December (5,5,4) into a stiff wind on 17 & 18.   For nada!   

Thinking about this question from an architectural perspective, I almost feel that the bifurcation has to start there.   I know that Tom Doak has been trying his best to build courses under 7,000 yards but let's imagine he has a client who insists on something for championship play and demands the course tip out at 7,800-8,000 yards which his where we are quickly getting to.

From a practical standpoint, how much more work is it to create interesting golf on such a monstrous property that could still appeal to everyone?    I would suggest it has not yet been accomplished successfully to dte.

[Jim Hoak]

What could possibly make you think that the PGA Tour is going to reduce the distance of the ball?  Everything so far says they won't.  So what could will it do to bifurcate, if the Tour says they'll play by their own rules?  Sure the British and US Opens and maybe the Masters and PGA Championship could go along.  But, if that's it, what does that accomplish?
I say, just ignore what the .0001% of players do.  Who cares?
And not all courses have played the length game.  Mike Kaiser has built some great and successful courses.  And all under 7000 yards.

[Jason Topp]

The weakness of golf publications has always been the fact they are beholden to advertisers. 


I never read much that was interesting about golf architecture until the mid-90s when some very good books came out and I discovered the books from the 20's.  Most architecture writing up to that time consisted of tributes to tournament venues or vacation destinations.


Golf is not unique in that respect.  There is significant money behind both sides of debates on most issues. 

[Ruediger Meyer]

I hate to cast aspersions on Jack, but what's in it for him if the ball is rolled back?

Let's say he really believes what he is saying, that the longer ball is hurting golf. So if the ball is rolled back and golf business gets back on track, his design business will benefit. So it might be possible he is right and he benefits from it.

[JESII]

I don't think he's thinking about it financially for himself at all...I just can't see how he thinks the game improves/grows/benefits from a roll back.


Do I like playing a course with tees close to the green I just walked off? Yes...and so I do!

[Mark Fedeli]

What could possibly make you think that the PGA Tour is going to reduce the distance of the ball?  Everything so far says they won't.

Hopefully, long after Tiger and Phil have exited the stage, they'll realize that a Tour full of bland robot gym rats like Gary Woodland will not make for the most entertaining and enduring product. The rest of culture is looking for more authentic, more artisanal, more diverse entertainments and activities, but the Tour, at least based on how this year they've somehow found even more ways to increase the corporatization and commercialization of the telecasts, seems strongly committed to the opposite.


I'm 39 and have been obsessed with watching professional golf since I was very young. I'm actually watching more sports now than ever before, but watching far less golf than at any other point in my life. And to bring it back to golf course design, how is there an entire 24/7 channel dedicated to golf that doesn't have one regularly scheduled show that seriously analyzes our unique playing grounds?

[Mike Bodo]

So whose voice should we believe:  the "independent" journalist, or the guy who played competitively his whole life, and has no fear of equipment companies?


P.S.  I was surprised to see Jack Nicklaus name Titleist directly in his latest statement.  That was an escalation of the war.

I agree 100% with your last statement, Tom. Nicklaus specifically calling out Titleist as being the primary perpetrator of the quest for infinite golf ball distance with no checks and balances was both striking and shocking. Essentially, he went after the biggest fish in the pond, but what comes of it is anyone's guess? I suspect, as you do, that most golf journalists are on the advertisers dole and dare not bite the hands that feed them. So you cannot realistically expect them to grab the baton Nicklaus is extending and run with it. Fortunately, we have websites such as My Golf Spy and The Hacker's Paradise that aren't beholden to advertisers and thus are free to print and publish whatever they so choose without too much fear of reprisals. Golf Digest and Golf Magazine aren't as fortunate, as their survival and livelihood is dependent on advertising dollars, far more so than it is subscriptions.

[Ira Fishman]

The distance problem is a real one, but we have plenty of evidence that the powers that be have zero incentive to change it--they believe that fans want to see the bombers bomb.  What seems to be more reasonable to ask is to return to the days where the ball actually hooked or sliced if not hit properly.  Not only does that cause pause for the bombers, but may be it will return real shot making.  Who did not have fun watching Bubba at Riveria?


Ira

[Jeff Schley]

The travesty as we have said in other threads is that the need to add length and tinker with iconic layouts is detrimental to those works of art. Baseball has wood bats only for major league baseball, all other leagues use metal.  What do you think would happen if they use metal bats?  They would have to move back the fences 50-100 more feet.  Is that going to happen where you have the outfield fence at Wrigley Waveland Avenue now?  Of course not, they have limited technology in their game and prevented the innovation from happening to offensive baseball.  The mound height was lowered after 1968 season where pitchers dominated and thus took away some advantage by the pitchers.  They didn't move home plate farther back.

I fear they should have gotten involved back in the late 90's early 2000's and stopped the ball and club innovation.  They finally limited the driver to 460 cc., however the ball was left and is way too optimized now IMO.  Simply roll back the ball and then you relieve the pressure on changes courses, which come with capital expenditures and maintenance increases, which also keep our works or art intact without lengthening just to attract a major championship.

[Mike Bodo]

What could possibly make you think that the PGA Tour is going to reduce the distance of the ball?  Everything so far says they won't.

And to bring it back to golf course design, how is there an entire 24/7 channel dedicated to golf that doesn't have one regularly scheduled show that seriously analyzes our unique playing grounds?

Amen, brother! I've been saying this for years and actually came up with a cool concept for a Golf Channel television series that would combine travel, sight-seeing and food with golf so that people would not only get excited about architecture, but perhaps make plans to visit the areas and courses the show highlights. The name you ask? The Donald Ross Trail - a weekly hour long show featuring three or four courses from a selected area (Southeast MI for example) in which the history of the course/club is discussed, select holes from each course are featured and you share with the viewer places to check out and see outside of the course as well as great places to eat and relax. This concept could easily extend to courses designed by McKenzie, Tillinghast, Colt & Allison, Willie Park, MacDonald, etc. If produced in a similar fashion to say an Anthony Bourdain or an Andrew Zimmern type show, where you have a knowledgeable and entertaining host that keeps the audience engaged, I think you could have something.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bifurcation is nothing more than a con job perpetrated by the manufacturers so they can increase the distance amateurs hit the ball. This is how it works. The professional game will play the same equipment they play now and we get new even better equipment to hit the ball as far as them. Exactly the opposite of want you are asking for all in the name of what you ask. This is how the world has worked since the start of time. Those who demand change are the first in line to get screwed.


Bifurcation is coming and you can thank yourself for the trouble.

[John Kavanaugh]

As I have said before we are going to end up with different balls and or equipment for every class of player. This will not end with a ball for the pros and one other ball for the rest of us. Youth ball, ladies ball, mens ball, blue balls.

[Thomas Dai]

What’s the intent here? To debate the impartiality of journalism or to debate the likelihood of equipment change?
Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

Could we at least agree that it is possible to have an opinion opposite of Tom Doak and not be on the take?

[BCowan]

Could we at least agree that it is possible to have an opinion opposite of Tom Doak and not be on the take?

Thank you sir!  Post of 2018! 

[Josh Tarble]

Jack has spent 30+ years building bigger, longer, harder golf courses but NOW is the time to roll it back.  Please. 


If Nicklaus design was still in it's mid-90s heyday I'm betting he wouldn't be so concerned with how far the ball is going.

[Tom_Doak]

If Nicklaus design was still in it's mid-90s heyday I'm betting he wouldn't be so concerned with how far the ball is going.

That's a fair point.  But it also reinforces that no matter what architects have done -- whether they've built longer courses and complained about it like Jack, or resisted adding length like me -- it hasn't changed the outcome one bit.  The distance problem only gets worse.

[Tom_Doak]

Could we at least agree that it is possible to have an opinion opposite of Tom Doak and not be on the take?

    Agreed.  Some people just have poor opinions without getting paid for them.


BTW, your earlier post about bifurcation being a con job from the manufacturers which will be exploited to make equipment longer for everyone else is a classic.  You ought to write stuff for the NRA, they need some help this week.

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