[Dan Kelly]

Sand Hills No. 17, from the original tees up on the duneside.

[Jon Wiggett]

I would say the 10th at Dornoch

[Garland Bayley]

...
I didn't realize Pennard's 16th was polarizing, but I guess since they want to(or already did) alter the green then I spose it must be.  I hope the work is never carried out...big mistake to dumb down an outlandish green.

Ciao

Architecturally it perhaps isn't. What we objected to was a blind second that would end up running into the rough unseen, thereby causing wasted time searching for the balls. Maintain the rough short enough to allow balls to be seen, and the issue goes away.

[Ian Andrew]

1st hole at Tobacco Road.
I played two days in a row with three different golf course architects both days.
It was either love or hate ... not much in between.

[Duncan Cheslett]

18 Reddish Vale...dislike

That's not a "polararizing" hole, Sean.


Everybody hates it!


Hopefully the members will vote to allow Ken Moodie to carry out his plans to transform it with thousands of tons of imported fill. 


The one hole alone costs us probably 50 - 100 members.

[mike_beene]

Alps and That other mountain range I can't spell. Number 4 or 5 on the front at Prestwick.

[mike_beene]

I don't see any mention of 10 at Rivera. Considering the tournament is going on it seems like it would be the leader. Or is it blasphemy to say it's over the top...

[Sean_A]

...
I didn't realize Pennard's 16th was polarizing, but I guess since they want to(or already did) alter the green then I spose it must be.  I hope the work is never carried out...big mistake to dumb down an outlandish green.

Ciao

Architecturally it perhaps isn't. What we objected to was a blind second that would end up running into the rough unseen, thereby causing wasted time searching for the balls. Maintain the rough short enough to allow balls to be seen, and the issue goes away.

This is simply lack of experience unless the rough was insane when you were there.  If you have a blind second and the ball is running left into rough you were on the wrong line.  I thought the green might be the issue.

Duncan

I thought you liked the hole!  I recall you and Ran defending it on the day.  I didn't even need to play it before I knew it was crap....its obvious. At least you can see...try Painswick's 1st...seriously crap....one of the very worst holes I have ever played if it wasn't so funny.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan

I thought you liked the hole!  I recall you and Ran defending it on the day.  I didn't even need to play it before I knew it was crap....its obvious.

Nah.


Ran loved it, and in my surprise I backed him up!


Even you said that it wasn't as bad as you'd thought on your first visit! 

[Mark_Fine]

There are holes on most every course, even the greatest ones that are polarizing. 


Tom Doak,
One of your courses that I thought was underrated was Riverfront in VA.  That said, I have to say the 18th hole there is more than polarizing, it is just bad and borderline unplayable for most golfers.  I am not a big fan of the 18th at Stonewall New as well. 

[Sean_A]

Duncan

I thought you liked the hole!  I recall you and Ran defending it on the day.  I didn't even need to play it before I knew it was crap....its obvious.

Nah.


Ran loved it, and in my surprise I backed him up!


Even you said that it wasn't as bad as you'd thought on your first visit! 

Maybe I just played Painswck

I am still a bit shocked that Dr Mac would finish the course like this.  I would have thought he would have been more pragmatic and just settled for a double par 3 finish.  Not ideal for sure, but I think there is an excellent par to be had half way up the hill...especially if played from the other side of the river....so a skewed par 3.  To be honest, since I first saw the course I thought this was probably the best way to finish.  Unfortunately, losing 250 yards and two shots on par is simply not something clubs would consider.  I guess its better to finish with an awful hole etc.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

Sean,


Ken reckons we can turn it into a really good hole; by making the fairway a gradual rise to the base of the hill we can take 12-15 ft off the current 70 ft final climb. By re-introducing a terrace halfway up we can give shorter hitters a target to aim for while allowing the grass to be mown to fairway height. Currently it has to be left as semi-rough to stop balls running all the way back down!


The original terrace was bulldozed smooth in the early 60s. What you see now is not quite as Dr Mac left it.

http://golfclubatlas.com/reddish-vale-golf-club-pg-2/

[Jon Wiggett]

Duncan,


what was the reason for bulldozing the terrace?

[Sean_A]

Duncan

You can but try, but I fear it is a case of trying to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse. 

Ciao

[Alan Ritchie]

Of tom’s holes, the ones I think would be polarising would be the 1st at St. Andrews beach and pirates plank at cape kidnappers..

[Jeff Schley]

There are some holes where you tee off blind and you have to ring a bell to denote you are out of the fairway for you wouldn't know otherwise.  I wear hearing aids that I take out during golf many times due to wind, and I have played with several deaf golfers at this particular course.  Sorry NOT WORKING! We always have to drive up to the top of the mound anyway.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan,


what was the reason for bulldozing the terrace?

No-one remembers it happening, but it seems that the greens chairman of the day thought it would be a good idea.


You can still see the contour of the original slope on the left hand bank and its pronounced terrace halfway up the hill. An early account describes the "scratch man" reaching the green with his second shot while the  "man of limitations" plays to the terrace and then chips to the green.


Previously unencountered drainage issues ensued at the bottom of the hill, which still trouble us to this day.


The changes turned an okay hole into a terrible one.

[Jon Wiggett]

Thanks for the answer Duncan. It is surprising sometimes what greens chairmen sometimes decide to do.


I hope the new/old version will be a good solution.


Jon

[Tom_Doak]

Of tom’s holes, the ones I think would be polarising would be the 1st at St. Andrews beach and pirates plank at cape kidnappers..

Those are good suggestions but I have never had much feedback from golfers on either hole.


The 15th at Cape K was a choice - you either played out on that finger or you didn't.  Mr Robertson made it clear he wanted me to do it, and I certainly think it was the right choice.  It is quite a hole in match play - in the Renaissance Cup two friends of mine strategized to keep their ball in play no matter what, and won the hole three times without ever having to putt 😀


I don't get to St Andrews Beach often, but every time I do the first hole kind of shocks me.  It is a real wake up call unless you hit two very good shots right out of the starting blocks!

[Charles Lund]

By coincidence, I played St. Andrews Beach today.


I've probably played six to eight rounds there. The hole is 497 meters from the blue tees.  Regardless of the wind, my third shot is likely to be a blind to semi-blind shot.  Today I played into a 25 to 30 mile per hour wind.  With a solid tee shot and good fairway metal, I was still left with a five metal than ended up about pin high and to the right.  I recall being long on my third shot on most other occasions. 


A friend who works at a nearby course singled this hole out as one he has a strong dislike for. He has length to reach it in two. 


The hole seems to present the same issues for longer and shorter hitters, albeit on the second shot for the former and third shot for the latter.  I recall hitting good third shots in the past that missed long or left.


Today there was a sign orienting the player to the green location from the tee. 


I made an easy six when I missed a ten foot putt.


I'd say I am a bit underwhelmed by the hole.  So my lack of enthusiasm, my friend's dislike, and the shock mentioned by Tom Doak would suggest diversity of opinion about the hole.


One thing that was different from before was that the the residual pinnacle like structures in the bunkers on number four and I think number seven are no longer there.  I was amused before and thought of them as diabolical to stymie in the middle of a bunker. Later I was told the intended work was not completed.


Charles Lund

[Tom_Doak]

Charles:  those pinnacles were the remains of islands of grass we had put in the bunkers to try and reduce wind erosion.  They were only a foot above sand level when built.  They stopped erosion on the islands but not of the sand around them, so it looked like they were getting taller over time, when really the bunkers were getting deeper.  So I asked them to remove the islands.

[Doug Wright]

Polarizing, now NLE: The 18th at High Pointe

Polarizing in Colorado: The 12th at Fossil Trace GC (Engh). In fact, one could argue that Jim Engh is a polarizing architect; some like his work and style; others don't.

[Mark Pearce]

It would appear from the Scotland's Best Par 3s thread that 11 at Askernish should be added to this list.

[Charles Lund]

The pics on the link would illustrate the polarizing nature of #4 as it existed a few years ago.  It still is a challenging beauty from the tee box.  I tend to have a sense of humor playing some courses the first few times, so I viewed my experience, probably in 2009, as a photographic opportunity.


I settled for five back then.  Yesterday, into a strong wind, playing about 215 yards, I hit driver, with a ball that was a bit on the dead side.  It came up short.  I chipped up and made my 8 foot putt for a satisfying par.


Link to pics:




https://photos.app.goo.gl/6sukLKcGMK8ljaph2


Charles Lund



quote author=Tom_Doak link=topic=65570.msg1565080#msg1565080 date=1519058499]
Charles:  those pinnacles were the remains of islands of grass we had put in the bunkers to try and reduce wind erosion.  They were only a foot above sand level when built.  They stopped erosion on the islands but not of the sand around them, so it looked like they were getting taller over time, when really the bunkers were getting deeper.  So I asked them to remove the islands.

[Tom_Doak]

It would appear from the Scotland's Best Par 3s thread that 11 at Askernish should be added to this list.

Absolutely.  Maybe 16th also!

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