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Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2017, 02:08:53 AM »
...
The 8th at Murvagh is my favourite par 5 Ireland.

...

I could have sworn the 5th at Strandhill was your favorite.

As you can see Mr. Moore, Ally agrees with you. As does Chuck Lund.

...
Agree about #8 at Murvagh being an amazingly difficult par five.   I also like the finishing hole there. ...
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2017, 02:16:12 AM »

...
The Matterhorn 14th doesn't get enough mentions. It surely is one of Donegal's greatest holes. ...
I've been slowly working on refreshing my memory, and making my list. 14 and 17 will likely be Portsalon selections.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2017, 04:12:37 AM »
...
The 8th at Murvagh is my favourite par 5 Ireland.

...

I could have sworn the 5th at Strandhill was your favorite.

As you can see Mr. Moore, Ally agrees with you. As does Chuck Lund.

...
Agree about #8 at Murvagh being an amazingly difficult par five.   I also like the finishing hole there. ...


Hi Garland,

The last 300 yards of the 5th at Strandhill is incomparable. But I've never been 100% sold on the drive, partially blind to a tight dogleg on flatter ground. If the new par three gets built on top of the plateau, this'll be shortened to a fully visible, sweeping dogleg, all over the same kind of moguls as the rest of the hole. Then I reckon it could be one of the best par-4's in Ireland.

I do love it.

I just love the 8th at Murvagh more (and the 15th at The Island). Probably my three favourites.

Are there any great holes at Bundoran, a Donegal course I've never seen?

For Rosapenna Sandy Hills, I think I'd choose the 4th.

Thomas Dai

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2017, 04:41:25 AM »
Strandhill in Donegal!? :)


What was the previous routing at N&P?


Atb

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2017, 11:50:14 AM »
Narin and Portnoo has a good selection of holes, but it seems many of the good ones will be relegated to 2nd place in selecting holes for an eclectic Donegal.

EDIT:
I notice both Thomas and Dai  ;) have enquired about the changes at N&P. Dick Daley and I ran into Jeff at N&P who apparently knew the course before and after the changes as he told us how they had taken out good par 4s to make mediocre par 5s.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 11:59:08 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2017, 11:54:19 AM »
Strandhill in Donegal!? :)

...

Ally brought in Strandhill when he called 8 at Murvaugh best in all Ireland.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2017, 01:18:36 PM »


EDIT:
I notice both Thomas and Dai  ;) have enquired about the changes at N&P. Dick Daley and I ran into Jeff at N&P who apparently knew the course before and after the changes as he told us how they had taken out good par 4s to make mediocre par 5s.






A little research reveals several interesting tidbits


I played N&P in '97 when the clubhouse was the coolest I had ever run into-pros shop, bar all one tiny cozy room.
I was quite shocked to see the large modern clubhouse in later years. (see below article)
The course was simply wild-my most pleasant surprise of that "97 trip.


To be clear, I think Narin and Portnoo is an absolute must play in Ireland, and I would rank the course and old Donegal experience in the top 10 in Ireland. Just a little less romantic now-but well worth a play.


I was disappointed upon my next three returns by the loss/combination of several holes to add yardage rather clumsily with the addition of three par 5's in a row,(all pretty good holes in their own right)
Previously the course was 5800 yards long par 69.
I have a request into a friend of a friend(who is now the President) for details of the changes which I can't pinpoint/remember.
I can tell you 7 was previously 8, and 8 was 9 and that 14 and 15, both par 5's were added (not bad holes per se but...)


I will say I rather enjoyed the early holes as #2 is a really good hole if even a bit unusual for a links.


I'm not sure if the course is worse or better, just slightly more homgonized(probably a bad word choice as its still wild and quite special), and longer on the card.
The parts are probably better-the sum not as much.
I will say on my initial visit it was the course I enjoyed the most, and felt a real discovery(compliments of James Finnegan) with the charming tiny clubhouse, caravans strewn throughout the dunes, subtle slow start to the course and absolute wild middle stretch of the golf course-before rerurning to the fenced in grazing portion of the course.


Now I read that the changes and upgrades come at a scary price-as always no matter what side of the pond one is on.
Painful-and sad.
.


http://donegalnews.com/2017/01/vulture-fund-cloud-famous-donegal-golf-club/

update
http://donegalnews.com/2017/07/businessman-buys-loan-book-one-donegals-top-cou/

another update
http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/business/265440/receiver-due-to-be-appointed-at-top-donegal-golf-club.html

Interesting that in a 2007 review in Top 100 Courses Jim MCann mentions how they need a "Millionaire to build them a new clubhouse"

apparently they found one-be careful what you ask for.

The club’s debt came from the building of a new clubhouse and new holes in 2007. In that time membership has dropped from over 700 to about 350.

I hope everything works out as it has some very special holes in a very special part of the world.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:10:52 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

David_Tepper

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 01:43:22 PM »
I played N&P very much by accident in June, 1994, en route from Donegal town to Northern Ireland to play in the Blackbush Causeway Coast tournament. We needed a place to spend the night and I saw on the map that Narin had a golf course. We pulled into town, found a B&B and teed off a little past 7:00pm. Finished around 10:30, just as it was getting dark (and just before the local fish & chips shop closed).

I knew nothing about the course beforehand. I thought the scenery surrounding the course, both inland and out to sea, was stunning. The course was pretty good too! 

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2017, 02:11:52 PM »
Anyone know what world renowned gca was to do a masterplan?

Anyone know what the additional 115 acres of land are?

I couldn't help but note that there is additional fantastic looking land just east of the course while browsing Google Earth.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 02:25:51 PM »
Thanks for the details above Jeff. Looking forward to hearing more about the old routing when your source reports back.
Like Garland I was pondering the other land and the GCA involved.
As to the loans, I guess when taking one out more care should be exercised in what happens if the loaner wants to pass the loan onto someone else.....if such care can be exercised.
Atb

Cliff Hamm

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 03:56:12 PM »
Do not want to hijack this thread so if this should be a separate thread please advise.


Will be in Donegal and NI in June.  Plan on playing 2 or 3 courses.  No interest in RCD or Portrush/Dunluce given my game.  67 year old, 17 handicap with a drive of about 180.


Thinking of Portrush/Valley and 1 or 2 from Donegal.  Thoughts?

Charles Lund

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2017, 04:11:07 PM »
Portrush Valley would be good to play.


In Donegal, Ballyliffin will close Glashedy in June to prepare for the Irish Open, but many people prefer The Old Links.  At Rosapenna, The Old Tom Morris Links is very enjoyable for many people, much more fun than Sandy Hills for most players.  There is Greencastle, just across Lough Foyle from Northern Ireland and North-West in Buncrana.  Portsalon seems to be a favorite of many of the participants here. 


Charles Lund

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2017, 04:33:10 PM »
Some compromises here to get two from each course I have played.

1
2
3
4
5 Narin and Portnoo
6 Donegal
7 Donegal
8 Narin and Portnoo
9 Dunfanaghy
10 Dunfanaghy
11
12 North West
13 Rossapenna OTM
14 Portsalon
15
16 North West
17 Portsalon
18 Rossapenna OTM
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2017, 04:45:46 PM »
Do not want to hijack this thread so if this should be a separate thread please advise.


Will be in Donegal and NI in June.  Plan on playing 2 or 3 courses.  No interest in RCD or Portrush/Dunluce given my game.  67 year old, 17 handicap with a drive of about 180.


Thinking of Portrush/Valley and 1 or 2 from Donegal.  Thoughts?

As can be seen above, I played 6 links in Donegal. I also played every links in the Portstewart, Portrush area.
I would recommend Portsalon and North West to go along with the Valley Links.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2017, 07:54:59 PM »
  Thoughts?

As can be seen above, I played 6 links in Donegal. I also played every links in the Portstewart, Portrush area.
I would recommend Portsalon and North West to go along with the Valley Links.


Excellent choices-great diversity-one as big as you want and spectacular scenery and the other smaller, equally welcoming and charming
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2017, 09:11:18 AM »
Do not want to hijack this thread so if this should be a separate thread please advise.
Will be in Donegal and NI in June.  Plan on playing 2 or 3 courses.  No interest in RCD or Portrush/Dunluce given my game.  67 year old, 17 handicap with a drive of about 180.
Thinking of Portrush/Valley and 1 or 2 from Donegal.  Thoughts?


Depends on how much driving you wish to do or where you're going to be anyway. Interesting that you wish to miss out on the usual 'biggies'.


Northern coast - Portrush Valley would seem appropriate and drivable to North West/Buncrana (and possible Portsalon). If you have the time for an excellent 9-holer head for The Bann at Castlerock.


Central Donegal - Cruit Island would be my target. Nothing quite like it. Once played, never forgotten. Combine with Narin & Portnoo or Dunfanaghy. More driving needed though but the scenery, craic etc may well make up for that.


Have a great time wherever you end up going.....and remember to take a camera onto the course with you!


atb


« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 09:28:50 AM by Thomas Dai »

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2017, 12:19:58 PM »
Not a fan of the Bann. To many lost balls for this 67 year old 19 handicapper. Basically a minimally maintained executive course. I much prefer Portstewart Old.

Portsalon is highest rated in CG for Donegal, Dunfanaghy lowest rated in CG for Donegal. 'Nuf said.

Haven't seen Cruit Island. People swear by it. The B&B I stayed at also had a couple of guys from St. Louis that came to Ireland specifically to play multiple days at Cruit Island.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 12:24:59 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2017, 09:36:05 AM »
Not a fan of the Bann. To many lost balls for this 67 year old 19 handicapper. Basically a minimally maintained executive course. I much prefer Portstewart Old.
Portsalon is highest rated in CG for Donegal, Dunfanaghy lowest rated in CG for Donegal. 'Nuf said.
Haven't seen Cruit Island. People swear by it. The B&B I stayed at also had a couple of guys from St. Louis that came to Ireland specifically to play multiple days at Cruit Island.


Agree to disagree on some points.


Tell us more about the Old at Portstewart please.


You need...NEED...to play Cruit!


Atb

Garland Bayley

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2017, 12:12:44 PM »
...
You need...NEED...to play Cruit!
...

Isn't that another Doak 4?
People rave about the scenery there.

This is what I see on my commute.



I don't need to go to golf courses for scenery.  ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2017, 04:42:03 PM »
Here's a list of the alterations to N&P.

1st: Same as old 1st which was listed as 289-m on the card I have from 1980s/90s. Two fairway bunkers on left added.

2nd: Same as old 2nd hole, listed as 450-m. Five bunkers added down the left hand side; the first two added after 2005. The last three added sometime in late 1990s. One bunker  that was between the green and the lake was removed prior to 2000. If you played this hole in the 1990s or earlier, you will remember a big fence running across the 17th and 2nd fairways. Cattle grazed on the south part of the course. The 1st, 17th and 18th greens used to be surrounded by electric fences.

3rd: Same as old 3rd, listed as 171-m. There was a bunker between the green and the drain (OOB) on the right, but this was removed in late 1990s.

4th: Same as old 4th, listed as 416-m. Old green was about 50 yds left of present green, so the drain was never a danger. New green now tucked into the corner bringing drain and OOB more into play.  All four bunkers are new.

5th: Same as old 5th, listed as 356-m. Two fairwary bunkers added and a greenside bunker (on front right) removed.

Now we get to the first major change.

6th: This new hole is a composite of the old 6th and 7th holes. The old 6th was a par 3 of 187-m played in the same direction as the drive for this new 6th hole. The old green was/is located where the hole doglegs left. It wasn't that memorable a hole, so I do not think N&P is any worse off as a result of its loss. The old 7th hole played (292-m) from a tee to the right of the turn of the dog-leg. It was an uphill par 4 to a green about 50 yards beyond the present new 6th green. It was a really tough green to hold, especially in the wind. The green was/is located on the left side of the present 10th fairway.


Here's a photo of the old 6th green, as viewed from front left; the old ladies 7th tee is in the background:


[/size]Here's a link to the old 7th green, with the old 12th green in the background:


[/size]7th: Same as old 8th, listed as 130-m.

8th: Same as old 9th, listed as 294-m. The little green just to the south of the main green was there in the 1990s or even earlier. I never saw it in operation and I wonder why it was developed.

9th: Same as old 10th, listed as 356-m.

So, it may come as a surprise, but not so much has been changed on the first nine. I'm not sure, but the first green may have been redone. The 4th and 6th greens are new; the rest on the front nine are unchanged I believe.


10th: New hole which follows the routing of old 11th and 12th holes. The old 11th was a par 3 of 180-m which was played from the present 10th tee in roughly the same direction as the drive for the new 10th. The green was located at the right edge of the present fairway. It was a tough par three with anything slightly left running down the side into a hollow. Sand being blown in from the beach was a constant problem in the winters. The whole hole, including the present 9th green were constantly being dumped with sand. The old 12th hole - a par 4 of 303-m - played along the present hole. The mens tee was located just below the current 8th tee. The green was situated into the left about 100 yards short of the current green; before the fairway pinches.


Here's a link showing the old 11th green:

[/size]


[/size]11th: A new par 3 to replace the old 13th which was also a par 3. The old 13th was 170-m and ran almost parallel to the present hole. The tee was located very close to the current tee box and you played directly over the current 12th green. When you walk from the current 11th green along the path to the 12th tee, you pass through an open area with short grass; this is where the old 12th green was situated.
[/size]

Here's a not so great photo of the old 13th (for some strange reason, I cannot embed the jpg):

https://www.hiddenlinksgolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hole-13.jpg
[/size]
12th: Same as old 14th which as 476-m on my old scorecard. Two greenside bunkers removed and one added about 70 yards short of the green on the left.



13th: Same as old 15th which as listed as 450-m. One greenside bunker on the left removed.

14th: New hole.

15th: New hole.

16th: Same as old 16th. One greenside bunker on the left side removed.

17th: Same as old 17th, listed at 371-m.

18th: Same as old 18th and listed as 321-m. The green was relocated about 30 yards to the right, probably for safety reasons. It was always a pain having to wait on the first tee while players finished out on the 18th green. This is no longer a problem. There are two new fairway bunkers down the left and three new ones on the right of the new green.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 06:39:20 PM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2017, 05:41:57 AM »
Donal,
Great post and explanation. Many thanks.
Many of the old features still seem to be visible from a satmap. I guess the area of bigger dunes along the beach were once pretty much non-golfable, or rather non-constructable, until big machines etc become economically available.
Atb

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2018, 03:12:53 PM »
I went through the posts and determined the eclectic 17. Couldn't find a nomination for hole 11, although Stewart posted a picture of Ballyliffn Glashedy, I am not sure that constitutes a nomination.
What would people pick for #11? NOTE: After consulting Mark Ferguson's thread on N&P, and Jeff Warne putting in a good word, N&P 11 has been chosen for the final missing hole in the eclectic.


1. Portsalon
2. Portsalon
3. Buncrana
4. Cruit
5. Narin & Portnoo
6. Cruit
7. Donegal
8. Narin & Portnoo
9. Dunfanaghy
10. Dunfanaghy
11. Narin & Portnoo
12. Greencastle
13. Rossapenna OTM
14. Portsalon
15. Ballyliffn Old
16. North West
17. Portsalon
18. Rossapenna OTM
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 08:58:15 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

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Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2018, 03:34:07 PM »
Garland-there's a pretty epic bench view on 11 at Narin and Portnoo-and it's a pretty good hole in a great location.


probably something decent at Ballyliffin but it all runs together for me with 4 returning 9's on similar terrain and texture. I like Stewart's picture nomination as well #11 (wish I could remember it)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 09:52:26 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2018, 08:52:02 PM »
Jeff,

I like Mark Ferguson's praise for 11 at N&P, plus your good word on it means I'm going to fill it in to complete the 18.

Since Chuck is a member at Ballyliffin, and he didn't recommend 11 at Glashedy there, I'll not choose it.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Charles Lund

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 crackers in Donegal
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2018, 09:50:27 PM »
Eleven at Ballyliffin Glashedy is a good hole but not a great hole.  I summarized my opinion about the holes on Glashedy that I think are among the best (1.2. and 3 being good starting holes and then 12. 13 and 15).  On the Old Links, 13, 14, and 15 are probably my favorite holes.  I like 2.3 and 5 on the front nine the best.


Portsalon is sort of a blur from #3 to #15, sort of like what some people say about the Ballyliffin courses.  I thought that stretch from was quite good.  #2 is the one I think of as one of the best there.  Bad snap hooks on number 1 on one round limited my ability to appreciate what the hole offered.


I have a hard time comparing holes from different courses.


Murvagh is closer to Ballyliffin than Narin and Portnoo which probably explains why I haven't been there.  I will make a point next summer of visiting Narin and Portnoo.


I probably have a lot of Ballyliffin photos over the years.  I can upload some to a google album.  I haven't figured out how to post to GCA.


Charles Lund

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