[Rick Shefchik]

It seems odd to be commenting on a Minnesota course based on photos only, but Spring Hill is one of only two courses on our Top 30 list that I haven't played (Wayzata is the other.) Here goes: It looks to me like Spring Hill doesn't offer many chances to roll or bounce a shot onto its greens. Most of the photos show elevated, heavily bunkered green sites. Looks like a fine course for the young, low-handicap player with high ball flight and lots of spin. I'd have to figure out a much different way to play it.

[PCCraig]

I agree with Bill S.


It is one of the best in the state. 


15 is way too low.

David,


Just curious. How many courses have you played in Minnesota and how would you rank Spring Hill among the courses you have played here?

[Tom_Doak]

It's funny how these discussions [and rankings in general] get stuck in silos.


The guys from outside Minnesota think that Spring Hill is one of Fazio's best courses; therefore, it "must" be better than 15th in the state, without having played the other courses in the state.


Meanwhile, in other states [and especially in other countries with limited golf], a run-of-the-mill "signature" course will be seen as outstanding, because there is nothing else like it there -- even though there are lots of courses with more local character and interest, but smaller maintenance budgets.


All of that would be fine, if we just recognize it for what it is ... but when we try to rank them all, the discussion gets hopelessly skewed.

[Laz Versalles]

This is...surprising. I expected some criticism of Spring Hill's par 5s, but I never thought it would be lower than 6th. Great stuff! Keep 'em coming!

[Mark Saltzman]

I haven't played a ton in MN, but here's my list, for what it's worth. 


     Interlachen
White Bear Yacht Club
Minikahda
Northland
Spring Hill
Hazeltine National
Giant's Ridge (Quarry)
Wilderness at Fortune Bay
Minneapolis
Giant's Ridge (Legend)
Somerset
Golden Valley
Keller
Chaska Town Course
 



 

[David Wuthrich]

I have family all over MN, so I have played a lot of golf in the state.


I would say over 75 courses.


I will not say if I think that the course is great on not, I am just saying that it is better than your # 15th ranked course in the state.


Of course, I have not seen the rest of the list, so I should have reserved judgement until then.  Sorry.

[PCCraig]

#14 - Oak Ridge Country Club, Hopkins

The following introduction was sent in from Jason Topp, who is currently on a tropical vacation. Jason was formerly a member of the 14th ranked course on the list, Oak Ridge Country Club.

Number 14 on our list is Oak Ridge. It garnered the widest range of Doak ratings with votes ranging from 3 to 7. Whether due to its quality or due to homer bias (I was a member for 8 years) it is my favorite course in town. It’s design relies on interesting fairway contour and simple greens that generally tilt towards one of the front corners and feature a spine or two to spice things up. I wrote a course profile on this site in 2005 that gives a good sense of the place. I gave it’s 6 and encourage visitors to give it a try. Not many do so.

Jason's full write up of the course can be found here: http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/oak-ridge-country-club/

A few photos of Oak Ridge from the their website. Perhaps once Jason returns from his trip he could post a few more current pictures:

[Laz Versalles]

I absolutely love Oak Ridge and all of her nuance. The back nine really shines (save 18) and the greens are more challenging than you might think. I worked at ORCC for four years and played it hundreds of times with some really great players. Nobody goes deep at Oak Ridge. Nobody. And it's a par 70.


By the way, Spring Hill is a better course. Not close.

[Tom_Doak]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

[Dan Kelly]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

It is a very good golf course.


So much for pictures telling the story.


BTW: I did not take part in this ranking project.

[PCCraig]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

Sorry. I didn't have any pictures on hand nor could I find anything better than what was on their website. Jason had some solid pictures as part of his tour from 2005, but I wasn't able to post them on the thread.


I think Oak Ridge is a very fine course. There are some really terrific holes on the course, particularly on the back nine. Holes 12 through 17 is awesome with 12 ( a downhill par 4 with a wild fairway ) and 13 (a dogleg right with a great green site ) being my favorite on the entire course. In general, the course has a great set of Classic back to front sloping greens with a bunch of subtle internal contours.


My personal opinion is that there are a handful of fairly mundane holes on the front nine that holds the course back from being one of the best in the state. The course also suffers from previous over planting of trees. But there are quite a few people that I respect their opinions that really hold Oak Ridge's course in high regard. I have managed to play it around 15x over the years, recently due to a reciprocity agreement with my downtown athletic club. It could be possible that I am just learning the nuances of the course.


Oak Ridge isn't a complete stranger to lists, as it appeared on the Golf Digest best in state list at around #20 a couple of years ago.

[Laz Versalles]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

Few have heard of Oak Ridge. Part of the reason for that is because Oak Ridge is the only predominantly Jewish club in the city so it just doesn't hit a lot of people's social radar. Example: I grew up with a guy who played college golf who lived 20 minutes from Oak Ridge. He never heard of the place until he was in his thirties. Beyond that, the club's origins have always been a little cloudy. Jason Topp's essay does the mystery justice.


Oak Ridge is pure but these pictures just don't show it's beauty. The first image is of #15, but taken from a vantage point that doesn't do the hole any justice. The next is of the mediocre 6th hole and the last shot is of the underwhelming 18th hole and overbuilt clubhouse in the background.  The last image is from the roof of the pro shop and looks down #1 and #18 with the driving range on the far left.

[Jason Topp]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

Tom




The bunker work is pedestrian.   They are from a mid 90’s job and look like a muni.    The greens and the land are outstanding.  You should see it if you get the chance. 

[Dan Kelly]

The bunker work is pedestrian.   They are from a mid 90’s job and look like a muni.

I don't think Oak Ridge's bunkers need any indictment. They might not be as "pretty" as some, or as deep as others, but they are in the right spots hole after hole -- tempting aggressiveness and rewarding accuracy, punishing the failure thereof.


IMO, form follows function -- and way behind it.


Not sure I understand the bunker-look fixation I see so often here.

[Daryl David]

I've never heard of Oak Ridge, and nothing from those pictures would have made me want to check it out ... so its placement in this list is intriguing.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been on my radar at all.

Tom,
You should check it out. 6600 yards from the tips, 6280 from the member’s tees. Par 70. Loads of fun. Not sure it should be that high on list, but definitely in the top 20.

[PCCraig]

#13 - Somerset Country Club, Mendota Heights

Number 13 on our list is Somerset Country Club in Mendota Heights. The club was founded by Charles Gordon and Milton Griggs in a huff in 1919 after the Board at Town & Country in St. Paul turned down Grodon's petition to move the 1st green across a stream. At the time Town & Country's golf course had become crowded and Gordon & Griggs' goal was to start a club that would have a high quality golf course with a small membership.

The golf course was laid out on old farmland just across the river from St. Paul in Mendota Heights and designed by Seth Raynor. The course received significant updates at the hands of Stanley Thompson, but some clearly designed Raynor templates remain such as at the terrific Redan 4th, the Eden inspired 8th, and the Short 17th.

The original farmhouse on the property remains today, serving as the clubhouse. It is simple and rustic, for sure.

The course routing and scorecard:

A view of the 10th hole:

A glimpse of the 11th hole:

[Jason Topp]

My favorite part of the Somerset experience is its low key old money vibe.  They have not spent money on extras, the course is usually relatively empty and the atmosphere is quiet. 


I believe the order of the holes on the photo is out of date.  If I remember correctly, the holes listed as 15-17 are now 2-4 and you add 3 to the remainder until moving from the short par 4 marked as 14 to the 18th.


In general, the land and the holes on the outside of the property are the best with some flat marshy land in the middle.

[Tommy Williamsen]

When I was looking for a place for my son to join, I took him there ((1998?). When we got to about the sixth hole he remarked, "Dad this is the coolest place I've ever been." It is really good but it could be so much better. It is one of those places I could happily play it all the time. Not as good as Spring Hill though.

[mark chalfant]

Enjoying this thread about a golf rich state  !!          Thanks Pat


Somerset's mowing lines and  greens  (expansion/ square ) look quite good per recent aerial.




Some restoration perhaps ?

[Shane Wright]

Jason, you are correct.  The order of the holes is a little out of date.  The numbering/routing was changed not that long ago.  My understanding is that it was changed to get back to what the original routing was.  I like the current sequencing better than what is shown in this aerial.  #7 shown is actually #10 and then the numbers change from there. 

I live near Somerset and drive by it all the time.  It's amazing to see it on a weekend morning with perfect weather (not this time of year) and hardly a soul playing.  The membership is very small compared to most clubs.  The feel of walking into an old farmhouse as the clubhouse/restaurant with two small spiral staircases going up to the locker rooms upstairs gives it a very unique feel.  It is certainly a flash back in time. 

I personally had Somerset much higher on my ranking list of Minnesota courses.  Not surprising, the conditioning is excellent.  But what is most memorable about Somerset is its greens.  Although many have a traditional back to front tilt, there are some defining spines and ripples.  The ripples in the “Short” template make for a picturesque setting. The spine in the “Redan” makes for a fun point A to point B shot from the tee. Other spines dictate care required and generally imperative that one is below the hole.  The course is very much a walk in the park with holes bending both ways and a combination of subtle uphill and downhill approaches. The property is rolling giving good variety in the topography changes with the exception of the bottom right in the aerial (#2).  This is a dramatically uphill par 5.  Some may say this is the weakest hole on the course because of how uphill it is.  But once arriving at the green, a stunning view of downtown MPLS is offered.  The rest of the holes are very strong.

There are many Seth Raynor course chasers out there.  Somerset doesn’t necessarily scream templates while one is playing it.  The Biarritz is subtle, the Redan is very good but very different from many others, the Short is probably the most recognizable and it is debatable how much of the other templates are even there or prevalent.  However, as for a place to spend a day playing golf in Minnesota, there are few others in the state I would choose over Somerset.  There is hardly a weak hole, if any, the conditioning is near perfect, and the vibe and setting is ideal.  Somerset doesn’t need to be ranked high to be appreciated. 

[Shane Wright]

Jason, you are correct.  The order of the holes is a little out of date.  The numbering/routing was changed not that long ago.  My understanding is that it was changed to get back to what the original routing was.  I like the current sequencing better than what is shown in this aerial.  #7 shown is actually #10 and then the numbers change from there. 

I live near Somerset and drive by it all the time.  It's amazing to see it on a weekend morning with perfect weather (not this time of year) and hardly a soul playing.  The membership is very small compared to most clubs.  The feel of walking into an old farmhouse as the clubhouse/restaurant with two small spiral staircases going up to the locker rooms upstairs gives it a very unique feel.  It is certainly a flash back in time. 

I personally had Somerset much higher on my ranking list of Minnesota courses.  Not surprising, the conditioning is excellent.  But what is most memorable about Somerset is its greens.  Although many have a traditional back to front tilt, there are some defining spines and ripples.  The ripples in the “Short” template make for a picturesque setting. The spine in the “Redan” makes for a fun point A to point B shot from the tee. Other spines dictate care required and generally imperative that one is below the hole.  The course is very much a walk in the park with holes bending both ways and a combination of subtle uphill and downhill approaches. The property is rolling giving good variety in the topography changes with the exception of the bottom right in the aerial (#2).  This is a dramatically uphill par 5.  Some may say this is the weakest hole on the course because of how uphill it is.  But once arriving at the green, a stunning view of downtown MPLS is offered.  The rest of the holes are very strong.

There are many Seth Raynor course chasers out there.  Somerset doesn’t necessarily scream templates while one is playing it.  The Biarritz is subtle, the Redan is very good but very different from many others, the Short is probably the most recognizable and it is debatable how much of the other templates are even there or prevalent.  However, as for a place to spend a day playing golf in Minnesota, there are few others in the state I would choose over Somerset.  There is hardly a weak hole, if any, the conditioning is near perfect, and the vibe and setting is ideal.  Somerset doesn’t need to be ranked high to be appreciated. 

[Jason Topp]

[quote author=Shane Wright link=topic=65362.msg1560019#msg1560019 date=1514984082]
Jason, you are correct.  The order of the holes is a little out of date.  The numbering/routing was changed not that long ago.  My understanding is that it was changed to get back to what the original routing was.  I like the current sequencing better than what is shown in this aerial.  #7 shown is actually #10 and then the numbers change from there. 

I live near Somerset and drive by it all the time.  It's amazing to see it on a weekend morning with perfect weather (not this time of year) and hardly a soul playing.  The membership is very small compared to most clubs.  The feel of walking into an old farmhouse as the clubhouse/restaurant with two small spiral staircases going up to the locker rooms upstairs gives it a very unique feel.  It is certainly a flash back in time. 

I personally had Somerset much higher on my ranking list of Minnesota courses.  Not surprising, the conditioning is excellent.  But what is most memorable about Somerset is its greens.  Although many have a traditional back to front tilt, there are some defining spines and ripples.  The ripples in the “Short” template make for a picturesque setting. The spine in the “Redan” makes for a fun point A to point B shot from the tee. Other spines dictate care required and generally imperative that one is below the hole.  The course is very much a walk in the park with holes bending both ways and a combination of subtle uphill and downhill approaches. The property is rolling giving good variety in the topography changes with the exception of the bottom right in the aerial (#2).  This is a dramatically uphill par 5.  Some may say this is the weakest hole on the course because of how uphill it is.  But once arriving at the green, a stunning view of downtown MPLS is offered.  The rest of the holes are very strong.

There are many Seth Raynor course chasers out there.  Somerset doesn’t necessarily scream templates while one is playing it.  The Biarritz is subtle, the Redan is very good but very different from many others, the Short is probably the most recognizable and it is debatable how much of the other templates are even there or prevalent.  However, as for a place to spend a day playing golf in Minnesota, there are few others in the state I would choose over Somerset.  There is hardly a weak hole, if any, the conditioning is near perfect, and the vibe and setting is ideal.  Somerset doesn’t need to be ranked high to be appreciated. 

[JC Urbina]

Jason,


I agree that Somerset is an understated Raynor, but when you look at the Short Hole you have to remember that is not the original hole, it was moved there after several holes were adjusted some years ago as was stated in the previous comments.   So take the current routing for what its worth, but if restored it could have some very impressive template holes waiting to be reimagined.

[PCCraig]

There is no doubt that the experience of playing golf at Somerset is a treat. The old fashioned vibe, tiny pro shop, no tee times, caddie program, etc. is pretty perfect. When I played Somerset a handful of years ago the neatest part of the visit was having a drink after the round at the bar...which didn't have a bartender and was all based on the honor system!


There are some fun holes at Somerset, and as Jason notes many are closer to the perimeter. I think many of the north-south running holes in the middle of the property tend to blend together in my opinion and none were very memorable. So, in my opinion those holes hold the course back a bit.


As Jim Urbina notes, the 17th hole was completely rebuilt about 10 (?) years ago by an architect out of Chicago (not a "name" architect, per se). It's a fine hole and a good Short.


The Redan is the best hole on the course right now, in my opinion. The entire green essentially falls away from the player on the backside of a natural hill/mound. It is not a very geometric version of the template but it's a very fun hole.


The entire course has more of a feel of a Thompson or RTJ course than a Raynor, these days. It also generally suffers a bit from the remnants of some pretty typical overplanting in the 1960's/1970's/1980's. The word on the street is that the club is considering a full Raynor restoration. That would really be something to see as it is a very nice property.

[Rick Shefchik]

A full Raynor restoration would include recreating the original Short, which was located between the green labeled #2 and the hole labeled #3 on the above aerial -- the highest point of elevation on the golf course. It's been gone a long time -- Robert Bruce Harris eliminated it in 1961, in favor of a new #17 -- and it's hard to imagine that you could recapture what was once there. Whatever they do, or don't do, at Somerset, it remains one of the special golf experiences in Minnesota.

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