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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« on: August 30, 2017, 07:49:17 AM »
 ???


Woodcrest CC is a neat William Flynn course in Cherry Hill, NJ. Its less than a half hour to downtown Philadelphia . Built as a 9 holer in 1929, it was lengthened soon  after .  It later became a private enclave for Jewish golfers who couldn't gain membership at some of the prestigious clubs in the area . Its is a hidden gem , always in spectacular condition with challenging twisted and turns.  Some excellent greens only increase the fun .


I caddied there , starting at 11 years old before graduating to PIne Valley after high school. My friends and I who worked there loved the place , and would never have been exposed to golf without Woodcrest. It was a club full of characters both as members and in the caddy yard . No working papers , just show up and keep quiet!


When it was purchased a few years ago I was lucky enough  to sit in on an early meeting where the new owners discussed their plans. Having such fond memories of my youth there it was really fun to share in the meeting. It became an interesting case study on golf course operations and perception for me.


I might be off on date, but Woodcrest did a big time renovation of the clubhouse , I'm guessing circa 1990-1995. Very expensive $   One of the keynotes was a beautiful veranda with great views of the course , specifically a difficult par five over water . I'm guessing that the thought process was to see everyone finish on this challenging hole. So they flipped the nines .  Makes sense , right ?   Not really!  Its really a tale of two nines.


When we caddied there the first hole  (par 4) played alongside the practice range , almost due east . There  was plenty of room so the range didn't pose an issue. Its now the 10th hole.  The nine was challenging but fun , with a neat short five (2) followed by three beautiful holes. Three is one of the better four pars in Philadelphia , with water and enough length to challenge the best player. Four is a nice par three up a hill, and five gently turns left off an elevated tee. The nine finishes with the aforementioned par five , by far the toughest hole for most players. That's the rub.




The back nine was shorter , with precision trumping distance . I often thought ten was the hardest tee shot on the course, its now the first one. Eighteen was a short par four (365)  which afforded lots of pars and an occasional birdie for players.  Plenty of good golf between but easier than the other nine .


So , do we go for a trunk slamming finish or not ?   I'm thinking 40-37=77 or 51+46=97 make for happier campers .  Then there's the pace of play issue. , oh boy !















« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 08:16:34 AM by archie_struthers »

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 09:24:01 AM »
I can see your point, Archie.  Maybe they should try it for a season and see how it is received.

Here is a photo album of Woodcrest from my last visit there in August 2013 with Cirba.  A few fairways had rough patches after I believe some hot summer weather:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/WoodcrestCC/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 09:39:52 AM »
 8)


Course is well conditioned . Lucas is fantastic superintendent . Really talented guy! Im always surprised at how few Philly guys have played this course . Lots of fun !


I think it plays too tough for most players. Would bring in the chainsaws and Have some de-arbor days this winter . Plus flip the nines lol


Plus flip the njnes  :'(
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 11:53:56 AM by archie_struthers »

Bill Crane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 12:54:21 PM »
Anyone have a sense of how much the course has been adjusted from the original Flynn design?


Dogleg cutting lines altered, greens shrunk, corridors changed by the trees etc.,  or has there been more comprehensive changes by a poorly informed Green Committee or architect?


Bill
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 08:25:29 PM »
Anyone have a sense of how much the course has been adjusted from the original Flynn design?


Dogleg cutting lines altered, greens shrunk, corridors changed by the trees etc.,  or has there been more comprehensive changes by a poorly informed Green Committee or architect?





I've seen it since 1967 (ouch).  Changes to greens on today's  #7 and  15 . I liked the original greens on both a lot more .  Low to ground , very simple but fit in so well.  The 3rd hole (par 3) is much improved from the original and 4 is great from tee behind this green.  Don't know if they use it too often but it makes the short par five tons of fun .


Bad bunkers on left side of fairway #'9 built about twenty years ago . Don't comprende at all . Miss  Fred Ruttenberg long time member , past President of club who no doubt would argue all the above !
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:05:15 AM by archie_struthers »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 07:09:59 PM »
I played there a long time ago in a GAP event.  The things I remember were:
  • Great set of par 3 holes
  • A number of bunkers that seem to have been sodded over - some of which would have been very strategic
  • Extremely narrow fairways.   Tree removal was desperately needed
  • There was a bit of discontinuity between the Flynn/non-Flynn holes.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC.
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 08:02:26 PM »
Archie:


I didn't look at your post at first because I don't know Woodcrest.  But I've been thinking a lot lately about whether it's better or worse for the back nine to be harder.


My course at The Loop is an interesting case study.  It's forward and backward over the same ground.  Though I did not set out to do it, the Red course starts out easy and finishes hard; this means that the reverse Black course starts out hard and finishes easy.  [Black 17th is a very short par 5 and probably one of the easier holes I've ever built.]


From the feedback so far, anecdotally, the hard start / easy finish is preferred by more golfers.  I have not heard anything about pace of play being an issue in one direction more than the other, but I should ask, since the 2nd hole on the Black is a par-3.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flipping the nines / Woodcrest CC. New
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 07:46:38 AM »
 8)



Hey Tom , yes it's a Toomey -Flynn that flies mostly under the radar.

Good question as to place of play.  It would be improved by flipping the  nines, might be dramatic. What is now the 1st tee shot is really tight and tough , good chance of lost ball . The front nine today is very , very tight and given most of us don't warm up like we should its a challenge to hit many of the fairways. Much better to play after getting into the rhythm of your round.


As stated the view of the 18 th hole is great , but you are likely to see more 7 and 8's than birdies on this difficult par five . Don't know if is was by design but the lay-up is hard to gauge . You are trying to position for a shot over a large pond and its semi-blind to the lay up area . Very difficult for most players.


Lots of trees need to go , it's a given .  But as I've stated it's really fun and has some wonderful holes with interesting angles for the longer hitter to think about . I'm terribly fond of Woodcrest as it has such great memories for me and many of my friends. 


Just an aside the halfway house in the 70's was run by a wonderful woman named Phyllis . Her food was the best !. No matter what you ordered, she made it better than anyone else .  It was so good that they to make a rule that members couldn't eat there unless they were playing golf , no one was going to lunch in the clubhouse  :-*
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:00:11 AM by archie_struthers »

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