[Thomas Dai]

Reading an old thread I came across this interesting quote from a contributor herein.

"I am starting to think that the best hazard around a green is a mound at the edge (or even partially in the green) that requires you to play over it....."

Thoughts?

Atb

[JESII]

I agree. Be bold enough to make a couple feet high and wise enough to let it cover a suitable diameter.

[Kalen Braley]

#8 at ANGC comes to mind......


Get on the wrong side of it and it makes getting up and down a lot tougher, even if you aren't short sided.

[Scott Warren]

There's none better than "Press Maxwell's Knob" on 11 at Prairie Dunes!

[Peter Pallotta]

I don't come across many green side mounds in my world - but I've played over every one that I've ever come across. That's what happens when you leave your approach shots short left or short right of the green. To some extent the fun and challenge is maintenance dependent - they're more fun if they're mowed to fairway height. But even if they're not cut that way, the distance and trajectory control challenge and the fun of seeing the ball emerge safely from the shadow of the mound and track towards the hole are very nice (and under-appreciated & utilized) part of the game.
Peter

[Sean_A]

The use of mounding running into (or away) greens is done very well at Palmetto...especially since the site is somewhat hilly and the mounds work with the grade of the land.  Sometimes this shaping contains bunkers, sometimes some sand and grass and sometimes just grass.

3rd


5th


8th


And then you get the Kington version of the concept which cranks up the meaning of moundings because these can be pro or con in terms of aiding the golfer.  There is no effort to blend the shaping or work with the grade of the land. 

12th


13th


Both styles work brilliantly. I am also a big fan of pimples just inside the green, but these are difficult to do well and I spose the maintenance is a bit harsh.

Ciao

[David McIntosh]

I think it's a great point and an estute observation.

There's a good mound at the front of the 4th green on TOC which I recently tried to putt over, didn't quite make it past the top and had my ball shoot off at a 45° angle to the pin. A very effective defence when the pin is tucked behind it.

Then there is the sand mound/inverted bunker on the 7th at Streamsong Red, which I've played from the top of rather than over. Admittedly it doesn't provide the variety of options that a grass mound offers but it has to be played over nonetheless if on the wrong line - a difficult prospect with water so close behind the green.

[Mike Nuzzo]

In my experience a bump half inside and half outside can have an impact on play even if it is only[size=78%] 20" tall.[/size]

This will cause the better player to have to account for the slopes by having a smaller target to land their shot and allow the average player to easily get over the bump.

[Scott Szabo]

Ballyneal has numerous mounds or slopes like what you are speaking of. 

[Stewart Abramson]

In reading the reference to "mound" in the OP, I was thinking more of something like this:



Streamsong Red #7 - mound at front of green

[Ira Fishman]

If you check out the Courses by Country write up of Old White at the Greenbrier, the fifth hole has some dramatic examples. The hole appropriately is named "Mounds".

[Rory Connaughton]

The pull ups at the rear of some Flynn greens spring to mind.  If you are over the back and have a short chip, it's over

[Ed Brzezowski]

The pull ups at the rear of some Flynn greens spring to mind.  If you are over the back and have a short chip, it's over

That's what I was thinking about some of Flynns work. Our course has two mounds built into the greens, 2 and 11 come to  mind.

[Jeff_Brauer]

When I was working with tour pros, they had a love/hate relationship with little mounds on the edge of the green, since the typical play was to land just on the green with chips.  Jim Colbert called them "spikes" and eloquently pointed out how they affected play.  you land just on the right or wrong side of it, and you have a tap in or a monster putt.


I thought of something like the Garden City 12 green, with a big roll.  Truthfully, with today's green speeds, I often put a +/- one foot ridge along the entire side of the green so nearly any miss to that side (often slice side in place of traditional bunkers) plays the same.  Mow it as fairway and the choice to carry, chip or putt up and over the one foot rise to a green falling slightly away is tricky, if not close to impossible to get close.

[Thomas Dai]

This is a feature I like to see but not so much a huge lump of a mound, rather something more gentle or subtle than that, even if just a few inches in height. If well positioned and cut at fairway or fringe height variety in course management and shotmaking is added.
A wee mound well positioned in the fairway can be nice as well.
Small depressions are also a good feature, either on their own or when coupled with wee gentle mounds.


Given my liking for this kind of feature I reckon I'd really like this course - http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wolf-point-ranch/ - so Mikes comment above is rather appropriate.

Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Depends how far you take it. One mound at fairway height just outside the green surface can be excellent but I tend to prefer a mound that has its apex within the green surface. That way the green acts as horizon with the transition hidden and the green falling away at the edge.


Some comments seem very close to talking about multiple mounds outside the green ala framing surrounds - very 80's and 90's style. I just don't like that look.

[Thomas Dai]

Although they don't necessarily 'shoulder' onto the putting surface, most, if not all, "Don King" type mounds, many of which are nicely placed, would be infinitely better if cut at fairway/fringe height.
Atb

[Sean_A]

I reckon its far easier to use mounding effectively outside of the green than in it because of maintenance.  Still, I would like to see in and out of green mounding in design.  Its quite unusual to see interesting mounding employed.  Perhaps part of the problem is it takes a pronounced or pack of mounds to make a visual impact.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I think that comment was my last cut / edit out of the Little Red Book.  BCrosby had quoted me often regarding greens and some of it had to be sacrificed.  Hopefully I kept it as it seemed to resonate here.


I have noticed a lot of these little features on favorite courses in recent years.  The two that come to mind at the moment are the mound to the right of the 9th green at North Berwick (which keeps drainage off the green, and punishes you for playing too safe away from the green side bunkers), and the little mound at the back left of the 8th green at Woodhall Spa, a mix of short grass and heather!

[Thomas Dai]

The comment was indeed yours Tom, extracted from a thread about bunkering/non-bunkering. Humps and bumps and moulds and hollows and depressions and washboards, all splendid stuff, even more so when cut to fairway/fringe/putting surface height and playing firm and fast.
atb

[Tim Gavrich]

This is a defining characteristic of the green complexes at Pawleys Plantation (Nicklaus, 1988) in SC. There are mounds around the perimeters of the putting surfaces such that they sort of resemble potato chips. You can kind of see what I mean below.





In the case of this hole, the presence of that rear mound might help a player decide to take on the pin. If there were no sort of containment there, everyone would just play out to the right. Good feature, I think.

[Tom_Doak]

the presence of that rear mound might help a player decide to take on the pin. If there were no sort of containment there, everyone would just play out to the right. Good feature, I think.

Would be better in my eyes if the mound was short grass, so the ball might be contained on the putting surface, and you could roll a ball over it coming back.  At rough height, if you go long, it's a more difficult pitch coming back, though that could well be the intent of it.

[Jon Cavalier]

I'm a big fan of this feature. Here's a few of my favorites, some of which were mentioned above):


12th at Garden City:



5th at Somerset Hills:



11th at Pasatiempo:



3rd at Essex County (in-green pit creating the opposite effect):



11th at Prairie Dunes:



16th at Pacific Dunes:



1st at National Golf Links:



6th at Hollywood:



18th at Chambers Bay:

[Carl Nichols]

The second hole at Bald Peak is a very easy par 5 that has a coffin-sized hump in the green (in the front right portion, and at about a 45 degree angle, from 7/8 o'clock to 1/2 o'clock).  The green isn't otherwise very difficult, and it doesn't make putts or chips impossible, but you absolutely want to try to be on the correct side of it.   

[Eric Hammerbacher]

Almost every green at Hollywood in NJ has these mounds.

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