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Matt Frey, PGA

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Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« on: May 15, 2017, 05:59:10 PM »
I played Rolling Road near Baltimore this past weekend with a couple of GCA member friends and one of my good buddies. We we very impressed with the goal course architecture (a Willie Park Jr. design), but even more enthralled by it’s use of land (or lack there of).

Using an online tool via Google Earth, and counting only the areas of the property where the golf course lies (excluding the clubhouse, golf shop, swimming pool, etc.), the course occupies less than 90 acres! What was even more impressive, at least to me, with the exception of maybe one or two spots on the golf course (the walk from No. 3 green to No. 4 tee and No. 16 tee shot), one never feels cramped or claustrophobic! Furthermore, due to the way Park routed the golf course, the course “played longer” than its card yardage of 6,174 yards.

After looking up Rolling Road’s approximate course acreage, it made me wonder about other 18-hole regulation courses that have made good use of small parcels of land. Of the 200-plus golf courses that I have played (some of note, some not), below are select mentions (in alphabetical order), however, I haven’t played another that sits on less than 100 acres.
 
  • Caledonia: Approximately 130 acres
  • Clovernook: Approximately 110 acres
  • Center Square: Approximately 120 acres
  • Elkridge: Approximately 110 acres
  • Hyde Park (Cincinnati): Approximately 130 acres
  • Maketewah: Approximately 130 acres
There are probably more courses on parcels of land of less than 100 acres, out there than I am giving credit for, but I would be curious to hear of any examples the members of this board have seen and experienced!

Mark Kiely

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2017, 06:09:30 PM »
I recently played Desert Pines in Las Vegas, which is said to be on 98 acres. I searched the course here on GCA prior to playing it, and just about every comment was about how terrible it was. It is very unfortunate that some holes run right up against the freeway with giant billboards looming overhead, but otherwise I thought Perry Dye did a pretty good job with the land he was given without it feeling too claustrophobic and/or dangerous.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Jason Topp

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 06:16:21 PM »
Town & Country is on less than 100 acres.

David_Madison

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 06:33:17 PM »
Mid-Pines is on a tiny piece of land, I believe in the mid-80's.




MClutterbuck

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 06:42:44 PM »
It must be a family thing. Mungo Park designed San Andres Golf Club in Buenos Aires on 104 acres, par 72, 6504 yards. Doak 6.


The course itself is not cramped, although there is OB on 12 holes, 7 quite close, as it uses the full perimeter.





Mike Sweeney

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 06:56:34 PM »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Joe Bausch

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 07:11:13 PM »
Maybe some would like to see a tour of the ultra-fun course Matt and I played on Sunday:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/RollingRoad/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 08:18:55 PM »

There's loads of them built 100 years ago.  100 acres was about what was recommended.  Remember the CBM letter to Merion, recommending 120 acres if at all possible, to get 6200 yards. I think they wanted to build on 100, maybe 90 originally.


The recommended site size for golf has gone up with length and safety buffers.  But, even in the 1980's I had a client buy a small site because a PGA manual listed 140 acres as standard.  They had 140, and some of that was in rock bluffs, unusable. Of course, environmental areas weren't a concern either.


I also recall 160 being called a standard throughout the 60's to 80's.  Some resisted when I said 180 acres, but ranges got bigger, too.  And, some developers reserved 140 to 160, not realizing residentially lined courses take over 200 because of the safety buffers required.  Maybe 220.


Almost seems like the acres relate to how far you allow centerlines to be placed to property lines.  When 100 feet was adequate, so was 100 acres, 150 feet raised the land need to 150 acres or so.  Now, with some developers wanting 200 feet to property line, 200 acres could be the new minimum for a core course. :P
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kyle Harris

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 08:38:59 PM »
Palma Ceia in Tampa is less than 90 acres. Donald Ross added 9 to a Bendelow 9.
Glen Ridge in New Jersey is another Willie Park, Jr. on less than 90 acres in the eponymous New Jersey town.


Both are studies in trigonometry.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Dave August

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 08:48:20 PM »
Water restrictions in the Scottsdale AZ area limit grassy areas to 95 acres.


Desert Forest, iirc, is about 65 acres of grassed land. I could be wrong, but not by much, and certainly not by more than 10 acres.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2017, 11:45:02 PM »
My club owns 91 acres. On that we have 18 holes par 70, clubhouse, parking lot, small driving range, and cart barns.

We depend on trees for separation and some safety.

It seems to me that when you have a small piece of land, you may use the land as is. Therefore, we have two uphill par 3s with limited visibility to the pin and green surface. We play into all the corners of the land, and use tree borders to keep balls from going astray too often.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sandy Smith

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 12:32:05 AM »
Marine Drive GC the sight of the final round of the Kings Putter a few years back is on less than 100 acres. Designed by AV Macan in 1922 it has produced some top players such as Stan Leonard, Doug Roxburgh and Dick Zokol and has hosted Canadian Tour events and World Amateurs. The work Jim Urbina has done on the course has gone under the radar in my opinion but is top notch.






Firm greens, firmer fairways.

Sean_A

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 03:14:38 AM »
To me there is quite a difference between a small acre golf course on a bigger site and a small site with a small acre golf course.  It is interesting to see how archies cope with the necessary sacrifices of small site/small course situations.  I think this is where the genius of archies can be most eliminated by trees.  Bigger sites can cope with trees far better than smaller sites, but it seems the smaller sites get the tree treatment...making them clausterphobic in places.  Some of the best small acre courses I know were by the ODGs, probably because for the most part that is all they knew.  They didn't mind sub-72 par or less than 6300 yards...they knew how to get the most out of properties and make them "play" much longer than the yardage suggests.  Its a shame to have so many of these gems buried in trees because of modern aesthetics and so called safety reasons.  I really do hope the entire concept of trees a safety gets binned...it is a false truth.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 05:40:29 AM »
Most of the local suburban courses built 100+ years ago in my area are on small sites of around 100 acres.


Yes, there can often be pinch points where an eye must be kept open for golfers on other holes in close proximity, but as Sean says, if there are problems it is mainly due to tree growth over the last 50 years in the interests of separation of holes and "safety".


Visibility of golfers on adjacent holes is the key to safe play on a small site. Trees restricting visibility are bloody dangerous!

Thomas Dai

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2017, 07:12:30 AM »
Visibility of golfers on adjacent holes is the key to safe play on a small site. Trees restricting visibility are bloody dangerous!


Good point Duncan. Not just on small sites either I suggest. I for one would rather be able to see both the potential shooters of incoming 1.68" missiles and the 1.68" missiles themselves plus those others who may be in my or my playing partners target lines.


atb

David Whitmer

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2017, 07:23:30 AM »
I'm pretty sure Wannamoisett in Providence is on about 100 acres or so. Ran's review of the golf course is very, very positive.

Chris DeToro

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 08:00:10 AM »
I'm pretty sure Wannamoisett in Providence is on about 100 acres or so. Ran's review of the golf course is very, very positive.


Yes, we're on a little less than 100 acres on a small plot of land surrounded by an East Providence neighborhood.  Even on such a small piece of land, every acre is used expertly and it never feels too tight

PCCraig

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2017, 09:56:46 AM »
Town & Country is on less than 100 acres.


Indeed it is, Jason...if you include the clubhouse, pool, and tennis courts on the west side of Otis Avenue  :)  I can check but I think the golf course itself is on less than 95 acres. Given that the property is pretty severe, it's amazing that they can squeeze in a 6,500 yard par-72 golf course in there!
H.P.S.

Brian Finn

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2017, 10:12:18 AM »
Rockville Links, a nice old Devereux Emmet course on Long Island...the course, clubhouse, pool, etc all sit on ~96 acres. 
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2017, 10:22:38 AM »
Can't believe no one has mentioned Claremont, squeezed into 81 acres, although I believe the club owns 90 (extra acreage to the right of 16)
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Garland Bayley

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2017, 01:26:57 PM »
Visibility of golfers on adjacent holes is the key to safe play on a small site. Trees restricting visibility are bloody dangerous!


Good point Duncan. Not just on small sites either I suggest. I for one would rather be able to see both the potential shooters of incoming 1.68" missiles and the 1.68" missiles themselves plus those others who may be in my or my playing partners target lines.


atb

You limey Brits haven't seen a good tree in your lives! ;)
Out here in the Pacific Northwest we have Douglas fir trees are so tall that balls can't get over them.
They grow regularly to 220 feet.
gardenguides.com/127903-tall-douglas-fir-tree.html
Tour pros hit the ball 100 feet high.
https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/65039-how-high-should-a-ball-go-with-a-driver/
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Sherma

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2017, 08:21:29 PM »
In the last two weeks I played CC of Maryland and Greenspring Valley Hunt Club. Both in Baltimore and very tight parcels of land. I don't know how to determine acreage on Google but CC of MD could easily be under the 100 mark. Nice course if a little short, 6200 and change par 70. Herbert Strong layout over nicely moving land.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2017, 10:27:27 PM »
Marine Drive GC the sight of the final round of the Kings Putter a few years back is on less than 100 acres. Designed by AV Macan in 1922 it has produced some top players such as Stan Leonard, Doug Roxburgh and Dick Zokol and has hosted Canadian Tour events and World Amateurs. The work Jim Urbina has done on the course has gone under the radar in my opinion but is top notch.


Marine Drive is a gem, and Sandy Smith is a terrific member and advocate.  McEwen and Inare still savoring our narrow win. 

Tim Martin

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Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2017, 07:36:51 AM »
I'm pretty sure Wannamoisett in Providence is on about 100 acres or so. Ran's review of the golf course is very, very positive.


Yes, we're on a little less than 100 acres on a small plot of land surrounded by an East Providence neighborhood.  Even on such a small piece of land, every acre is used expertly and it never feels too tight


Chris-I can't think of a better example than Wannamoisett. The holes flow beautifully and the outward nine though fair is one of the toughest in golf.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Courses on Small Parcels of Land
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2017, 08:58:22 AM »
Many smaller courses (including at least one mentioned above) are struggling with boundary issues.  Fairways are too close to the property lines and balls out of bounds are now causing legal troubles and court-mandated design changes, such as shortening par-4 holes to par-3's and putting up 100-foot fences along the property line. 


I love to see courses where playing areas overlap to save space, but I fear that many such places are doomed in the longer term because of legal troubles.  All it takes is one adverse neighbor in the wrong spot, and holes like 7 or 8 at Merion are toast.

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