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Benjamin Litman

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Restoring History: Musselburgh
« on: May 08, 2017, 02:01:11 PM »
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"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 03:22:01 PM »

Benjamin,


on the face of it it does appear to be a good story but I worry it might have some bad side effects. With quotes such as 'Essentially, we wish to make Musselburgh great again' which has worrying echoes of Mr. Trump I would be anxious that by reportedly spending £10 million (though I doubt anything like this will be spent) this will be used to massively inflate the greenfee price taking it out of the reach of the local golfer. One of the great things about Mussleburgh Old is it is a course with a massive heritage, in reasonable nick and accessible to all at a price of below £15. I hope this will not change.


Jon
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MCirba

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 04:32:08 PM »
Holy ground.
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"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 04:41:28 PM »
They need a negative amount of £'s to restore the course to its previous ‘Open Championship’ condition.  ??? ::)
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 01:24:45 AM »
Sounds like typical journalists crap.


If those shareholders have backed a £10,000,000 plan they would lose a lot of money. First thing they should have done/could do is buy Mrs Formans.
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A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 02:29:20 AM »
Its not clear what the proposals are. I played Musselburgh a while ago and they had plans to extend it to 18 holes by Donald Steel.


Mackenzie and Ebert are carrying out the design work so it will be interesting to see what is actually proposed.
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Niall C

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 06:34:12 AM »
Interestingly the racecourse seems to be in a spot of bother in that the Jockey Club or whoever oversees the running of horse racing in this country, is threatening to withdraw the licence for Musselburgh to hold races. That aside, is their enough room to build another 9 holes ?


Niall
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 07:32:06 AM »
Quote from: Niall C on May 09, 2017, 06:34:12 AM
Interestingly the racecourse seems to be in a spot of bother in that the Jockey Club or whoever oversees the running of horse racing in this country, is threatening to withdraw the licence for Musselburgh to hold races. That aside, is their enough room to build another 9 holes ?


Niall


Earlier proposal by Donald Steel had 9 extra holes on a piece of land north of the clubhouse
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 07:48:36 AM »
2002 proposal


Niall[/size]



Masterplan from 2002 proposal - hope they get rid of the racecourse and relocate it

« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 08:50:21 AM by Ben Stephens »
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 06:08:39 PM »

Niall,


my understanding is that the council have not agreed the budget for the racecourse and so the necessary budgetary requirements have not been met. The same council that failed to realise the potential of the golf course and the benefits it could have brought to Musselburgh seem hell bent on ruining the racing as well.


Ben, thank god Mr. Steel's quite awful plans were never realised. The proper thing to have done would have been to build a state of the art racing venue on the old landfill leaving the golf to be developed without the track going through the middle of it. Hospitality facilities could have been shared much as now.


Jon
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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 11:08:25 PM »
Is the current course pretty similar to the course that held The Open over a century ago and was the home of the Parks, or has it changed a lot through the years?
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Niall C

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2017, 08:42:14 AM »
Jon


I suspect that the racecourse is similar to the course in respect of the old style charm that it provides. The two almost go hand in glove and one without the other wouldn't quite be the same IMO.


Niall
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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 01:48:41 PM »

Niall,


not really. The race course used to be just a straight run with the circular track being introduced fairly recently. They have spent a lot of money on the facilities and it now looks very different to what it used to.


Wayne,


the course was changed quite a bit by Donald Steel to accommodate expansion of the horse racing so it is no longer the same.


Jon
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MCirba

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 03:06:03 PM »
Jon,


Could you describe those changes by Steel and when they were done?  Thanks.
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"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 03:33:21 PM »

Mike,


I am not overly familiar with the changes so some of this might not be 100% correct but from recollection the first tee was moved along with the green which moved a little back an to the right. The second I believe is still intact but the third green was brought forward by quite a distance losing a very good green. The fourth had the fairway altered though in essence the hole has remained true to the original. Fifth is as was. The sixth had the tee moved forward, several fairway bunkers removed and a couple of really awful ones added. The worst was the removal of the bunker at the back of the green which was vandalism pure and simple. The seventh was lengthened to a par 5 though is a good hole. The eighth has remained the same I believe but the ninth has had the green moved short and to the left making the hole quite awkward though the green is a good one.


The course is not as good as it used to be and given the historical significance of the course what was done was IMO an act of vandalism. Most of the blame lies with the council who have managed to mismanage this potentially valuable asset almost to the point of closure and it appears as though they are trying to bankrupt the race track at the moment.


Jon
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Niall C

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 05:33:15 AM »
Thanks Jon, I hadn't realised the changes were so much or indeed that the race course had been changed as well. When were the changes done ?


Niall
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2017, 06:35:20 AM »
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2017, 06:52:17 AM »
Marty,
Thanks for highlighting the Forgottengreens website. Not seen it before. Contains lots of interesting stuff.
Atb
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2017, 07:26:01 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on May 12, 2017, 06:52:17 AM
Marty,
Thanks for highlighting the Forgottengreens website. Not seen it before. Contains lots of interesting stuff.
Atb


Alfie used to be a regular Poster here. The Arbory Brae story is awesome.
Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2017, 09:39:34 AM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on May 12, 2017, 07:26:01 AM
Quote from: Thomas Dai on May 12, 2017, 06:52:17 AM
Marty,
Thanks for highlighting the Forgottengreens website. Not seen it before. Contains lots of interesting stuff.
Atb
Alfie used to be a regular Poster here. The Arbory Brae story is awesome.
Cheers,
F.


It is indeed - http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview-with-alfie-harry-ward/
Atb
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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2017, 03:27:32 PM »

Quote from: Niall C on May 12, 2017, 05:33:15 AM
Thanks Jon, I hadn't realised the changes were so much or indeed that the race course had been changed as well. When were the changes done ?


Niall


Niall,


it is a topic I have only a small idea about. I know the course was still as was when I first played it in the early 80's but when the changes happened exactly I do not know. As I understand it the race track was upgraded to a circular track with a parallel one for jump racing. They also built a massive banked curve recently which has altered the course even further.


Jon
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Steve Salmen

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2017, 10:25:10 PM »
I first played OM in1991 and recall the first hole being a short par 4 and ending on a 150 yd par 3.


At some point it changed so that the old 9th became the 1st. I think the last time I played here was 06 or so. Am I correct?
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Restoring History: Musselburgh
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2017, 04:22:57 AM »

Steve,


on the one side I kind of remember that too though my memory of the first round is very hazy. However, as far as I am aware Mrs. Foreman's was always behind the fourth green so I do not see how that could have been. I will have to ask my brother-in-law next time I talk to him as he grew up in Mussleburgh playing the Old Links a lot in his childhood. Indeed, his farther was one of a small group of golfers instrumental in saving the course in from been abandoned by the council in the late 70's.


Jon
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