[MCirba]

For a Victorian golf opera, 68% positive reviews from the film media is rather remarkable, I'd say.


Going to drive an hour or so to see it this week.

[BCowan]

Going to the 1pm showing today and I can't wait!  Looking forward to discussing with my friend Melyvn Morrow. 

[Garland Bayley]

Most of the reviews that I have read on the movie seem to lack some historical context.  The SFGate one says:  "... younger Tommy, who rebels against the class system — and his father’s wishes — to become a professional golfer, not just a commoner caddy". 

My understanding of 19th and early 20th century society was that a golf pro was a low-class position that was not much higher than a caddy.  And choosing the same profession as your father isn't exactly rebelling against the class system.  I am pretty sure that until around the 1920s golf professionals were not welcome in the clubhouse of most golf clubs as they were not of the correct class.

It's been a long time since I read the book, but my recollection is that Tommy violated the rules on access to the clubhouse, and when he was rebuked started his own club with friends, and threw some elaborate events with that club that also caused a stir in society.

[Wayne_Kozun]

  Wayne,


See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverness_Club


you can credit Sylvanus P. Jermain for helping eliminate that golfing caste system in the USA

Thanks Steve. That's exactly my point, before 1920 pros were forbidden from clubhouses throughout the US which supposedly had no class system. And this movie is set almost a half a century before that event. So to say that YTM broke through the class system to become a golf pro is completely misunderstanding the position of a golf pro in the 19th or early 20th century. It was a very low status position and remained so for almost a half a century.

[Sean_A]

I would be interested to know if Inverness allowed pros in the house when there wasn't a large tourny on. 

I also wonder if it wasn't Braid who was actually the first pro of the more modern ilk.  When he signed his 1st contract in 1904 he was allowed 90 days off for competitive golf, was not responsible for keeping the green, but he was expected to advise on course management...an advisor to Fowler...I wonder how that worked out! Braid was also allowed to charge the members for playing with him!  Later he became a director of the club, he was trusted that much.  I do believe Braid was allowed to enter the club, but he always chose to enter from the rear door out of modesty and respect to the members and fellow co-workers.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,


Braid might very well have been the first contracted professional. He was also instrumental in setting up the PGA to represent the interests of professional golfers a few years earlier. Here in the UK some clubs were still not allowing professionals into the main clubhouse even as late as the mid 80's.


Jon

[Niall C]

For all those comparing the film to the book, how accurate do you think the book is in relation to not only the history of the Morris family but also the times in general back then ? It's been a while since I read it but it struck me then as being overly sentimental with emphasis on certain things to fit that theme.


Sean


I think what you write about Braid is largely correct but I suspect that there was written contracts well before 1904. I also think the 90 days off thing was a later development but then at that point he was not only at the very top of the professional game but probably also the most sought after gca of the time. He achieved a hell of a lot with his time off from the day job.


Niall 

[Ed Brzezowski]

Ed,


"The accents are thick at times..."


Nae subtitles fer the benefit o' thae unwashed masses then!


Cheers Colin

Well Played

[Sean_A]

Sean

I think what you write about Braid is largely correct but I suspect that there was written contracts well before 1904. I also think the 90 days off thing was a later development but then at that point he was not only at the very top of the professional game but probably also the most sought after gca of the time. He achieved a hell of a lot with his time off from the day job.

Niall

Niall

Of course contracts written or not existed prior to 1904...never said Braid's was the first written contract.  I do, however, think the terms of the contract were not terribly tilted toward the master/servant model.  It is obvious Braid was a highly valued employee and sought after. 

I am amazed at Braid's achievments in golf.  He was well and truly a one-off...very special indeed.

Ciao

[Steve Lang]

I would be interested to know if Inverness allowed pros in the house when there wasn't a large tourny on. 

Sean, Everything I've ever seen in print discusses the "tourney participants"...  now I suppose someone had to go in and wind the clock

[BCowan]

I would be interested to know if Inverness allowed pros in the house when there wasn't a large tourny on. 

Sean, Everything I've ever seen in print discusses the "tourney participants"...  now I suppose someone had to go in and wind the clock

I'll ask my sources, it's a great question.  Remember how we obtained 93 PGA from Aronimink...  The Big i is a trailblazer

[John Kavanaugh]

How was the movie?

[Anthony Gholz]

See it soon, at least in Detroit anyway.  The theatre says its over on Thursday.  I'm tomorrow 1:30PM.  Don't give away the plot Ben.

[Carl Johnson]

Saw it this afternoon with my wife.  I'd read the book.  I enjoyed the movie a lot but impossible to assess for a non-golfer.  My wife (a nongolfer, but golfer's wife) said she liked it too, but thought it could have been shortened a little.  I'd classify it as an "Upstairs, Downstairs" of golf.  That is, reminiscent of that production and other British period dramas we see here in the USA on public TV's Masterpiece Theater series.  Could have used English subtitles, particularly for Old Tom.  I'd be curious to know why the producers/director chose not to add them.  Our theater was giving out nice little (13.5" x 20.5") posters of the movie, of which I secured one (sure to be worth thousands of dollars to my heirs many years from now).

[Pete_Pittock]

It was a dank, gray day in Portland yesterday. Perfect. Logoed up and went. Also a 'battle' between father and son. Today is the last day of its run here.

[Anthony Gholz]

Saw it yesterday with my wife, a now non-golfer, but very familiar with the various Scottish golfing sites and the Morrises.  We both thought it excellent.  I'd agree with the Masterpiece Theatre productions comment and also that it was very accurate for the portions of the book used.  I don't remember the tree cutting incident, but that's quibbling.  I thought some of the shots were too good too be true, but Young Tom was supposed to be the Tiger of his day, and maybe all time.


Wish I'd gotten a poster!

[Ed Brzezowski]

If you ever get a chance look into some of the old equipment. The grooves on some of these old weapons are a quarter to a half inch wide, you could back up a Top Flite, or cut it in half.

[Ryan Carey]

If you ever get a chance look into some of the old equipment. The grooves on some of these old weapons are a quarter to a half inch wide, you could back up a Top Flite, or cut it in half.

No, grooves weren't really around until the 1900s. Young Tom Morris died in 1875.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Well while on a search in St .Andrews for beer and old clubs several old shops said differently, but it could have been the Tennents?? I know the museum had some very odd clubs on display.

Lesson learned, don't drink and shop?

[Ryan Carey]

Well while on a search in St .Andrews for beer and old clubs several old shops said differently, but it could have been the Tennents?? I know the museum had some very odd clubs on display.

Lesson learned, don't drink and shop?

No worries. Tommy Morris (and golfers of his era) would've only had 5 or 6 clubs in his bag (though I use bag in a figurative sense, as they didn't yet use golf bags either). Those clubs would've all been woods, except for one or two irons. Irons were almost exclusively trouble clubs - used to hack out of a wagon rut or some brush. It has been said that Tommy Morris was (one of) the first to use an iron as an approach club. Though nothing resembling iron with grooves existed until a couple decades later

[Jon Wiggett]

Ryan,


did you know that players of that era did not have any restriction on the number of clubs they could use in a round. There are accounts of some players requiring two caddies to carry in excess of 40 clubs. Indeed, it was only in 1938 that the R&A brought in a rule restricting the number to 14. Having said that I have no idea as to how many clubs TM would normally use.


Jon

[BHoover]

Ryan,


did you know that players of that era did not have any restriction on the number of clubs they could use in a round. There are accounts of some players requiring two caddies to carry in excess of 40 clubs. Indeed, it was only in 1938 that the R&A brought in a rule restricting the number to 14. Having said that I have no idea as to how many clubs TM would normally use.


Jon

This seems to be at odds with the GCAers who pride themselves on how few clubs they can use, like they are playing a golf version of Name That Tune.

[Ryan Carey]

Ryan,


did you know that players of that era did not have any restriction on the number of clubs they could use in a round. There are accounts of some players requiring two caddies to carry in excess of 40 clubs. Indeed, it was only in 1938 that the R&A brought in a rule restricting the number to 14. Having said that I have no idea as to how many clubs TM would normally use.


Jon

Absolutely. Though the guy with 40 clubs must've been quite the prick!


The Morrises and others of that era only used about 4-7 clubs. All long nose woods (including the putter) with maybe an iron or two that were pretty much exclusively used to hack a ball out of trouble. They didn't even have golf bags yet, so the caddies just held under their arms. And until the advent of gutta perch balls (1848), golf balls cost about as much as clubs.


Keep in mind that no one understood physics or aerodynamics yet. So the clubheads were (usually) smooth, and the balls too were smooth. Until golfers realized that knicked balls actually flew better than smooth ones. And even after they figured that out, it still took another couple decades to realize that grooved clubs were superior.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()