[BCowan]

I'm actually changing my stance on this.  I have thought about this ruling for the past 3 weeks or so.  I have practically given up with the idea of people playing a game Professionally and having a ton of respect for the game that it brings a higher form of humility in them.  I remember the 96 Masters Press conference where Norman said he isn't going to headbutt an official, as he was referring to the NBA.  I don't want Golf to be like other sports, how many NFL players have police records? 

Lexi's attitude to the rules official "is this a joke'' and ''whatever'' makes me cringe.   She handled it like a 10 year old IMO.  It was Jack Nicklaus who changed my mind.  He has most always taken the proper stance (excluding the President's Cup tie).  He called it right with Casey Martin and he flat out said she cheated.  What if a player kicks a ball in the rough and it's seen on video?  I'd of rather she was DQed for cheating.  I don't like the idea of people calling in, but I want Golf to be a game of honor.  I guess i need to start following Rugby, I hear it's honorable game.  It's so sad how low the bar has been set.  The UKers made some great insightful posts. 

[Ken Moum]

Sean,


You make a nice argument, but I really don't think it holds water. There has NEVER been any consistency in the way golf rules are administered, and I would argue that TV "rulings" have added consistency.




after the Lexi incident, Jack, Phil, and Brandel Chamblee all admitted that they'd seen instances of players mis-marking the ball, ostensibly on purpose. Brandel even said the perpetrator did "all day" in a PGA event in Hawaii, and said, "It made me crazy."


Yet none of those stories ended with players getting penalized. Phil even said some guys were moving the ball several inches and his preference was that the Tour "talk to the players," in hope of getting them to stop doing it.


We have a game of honor--in theory--and yet it's the only game I know of where knowing the rules and expecting people to play by them makes you an asshole.


So, the pros witness cheating, and ignore it. Or they "handle it" without anyone getting penalized.


How in bloody hell is that consistent and equitable for the field?


Re. some other suggestions, John Feinstein for one is harping on the need to have a rules official monitoring the broadcast so these thigns get handled in real time. Everyone seems to forget that the PGA Tour did exactly that when some other similar ruling took place.


The result?  Tom Kite was seen on camera talking a VERY liberal water hazard drop based on what he wanted his last point of entry to be.  The guy monitoring the broadcast got on the radio and had a roving official get out there and stop Kite from making the drop in an effort to prevent an afgter-the-fact penalty.


And then? There was a player uprising and they had a meeting demanding that the system be scrapped.


There's a simple answer. Learn the rules, play by them, and nothing bad can happen.


As far as this latest thing from the ruling bodies, it seems like it came from the respective tours raising hell with the USGA in a meeting at The Masters. In fact, I'm inclined to think that the non-penalty on Sergio when he moved the pine needle by his ball on #13 on Sunday might well have been the first "ruling" we've seen under the new policy... even though it wasn't in effect until this week.


Personally all of the whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth over this leaves me even less happy with the influence of pro golf on the game.  I regard it as nothing more than the pussification of golf.


Thankfully I'm headed to Scotland for 7 weeks in July, at least there most of the players accept that golf is not only difficult, but it's ridiculously unfair.


The pros want golf to be a test of skill.


I prefer that it be a test of will... and character.


K

[Sean_A]

Ken

I disagree if we are still talking about the pro game.  Each tournament has a set of very highly qualified rules officials who can easily be contacted should there be an issue requiring assistance.  Each group has players who know their responsibilities.  If you are arguing that the players are not willing to carry out their responsibilities then the entire concept of golf as a game of honour etc is merely a wishful dream anyway.  You can't have it both ways.  Either golf is in the main policed by players or by outside officials using tv.  I think the non-tv approach is about as consistent as it can be.  There isn't much point paying lip service to honour etc and then randomly checking monitors (or worse, relying on spectators) every 10 seconds in the hope that nothing untoward is detected.  I am basically against tv replay influenced call making in sport, but if used, do it properly.  Golf is the only game of which I am aware that doesn't have a clue in this regard.

I can understand the difference of opinion regarding when an infraction can be called.  I prefer scores set in a timely manner (that being by the time everything closes down on the day of play) because it can make a big difference how a player chooses to play.  Others prefer a 72 hole approach which can and does lead to chaos, but the best call possible is made.  Maybe I could get on board with this approach if tv was used equally and consistently for all contestants. to be frank, I hope it never comes to this, but I suspect that as with othr sports, the human element of the game will be further removed.  Such a pity.

Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

Ken: I saw that very same Tom Kite at the Kemper Open tell a rookie he was playing with that he needed to take full relief from a cart path as his heels were still on the cart path after he had taken relief.  I believe he did this as a gentleman so that his playing partner did not incur a penalty so lets remember that players try to do the right thing for themselves as well as their fellow competitors.


There was also a situation which I believe occurred last week where a player's ball hit a cart path and he called over his playing partner to examine the ball and he did not find it to be damaged so that he could replace it.


So there is integrity on the tour and we should not paint all the players with the same brush.


I don't think you can take anything from Lexi's reaction.  She is in the final round of a major championship and totally focused on winning and the situation is brought to her attention which just caught her out of the blue.  You can point a finger at her reaction if you think her actions were an intentional effort to cheat and gain an advantage against the field which there is no evidence to support. She was sloppy and maybe negligent but not intentionally cheating.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff


But it's a 72 hole competition made up of 4 x 18 holes. No matter when it comes up anything pre the 72nd hole should be admissible.

That's where we disagree. Rather than after 72 holes, I see no reason a round, or even a hole can't be closed after scorecard signing or teeing off on next hole(like match play-and like other sports).
If we're going to go all big brother, why close the competition at all? Let's check all the Hogan era film and make sure it's all ok?




Golf is a game of honor and for years we've taken the player at his word.
If we go the other way, and have a camera and viewers on EVERY shot, the assumption becomes we no longer have to abide by that honor code, and if the viewer/camera didn't call it in, there's no foul.
I prefer the old way, warts and all. I certainly don't like the recent (yesterday) interpretation as it only clouds the issue.

[Mike_Clayton]

Jeff


Because once its finished its finished. Until its not finished its not finished.

[BCowan]

If we're going to go all big brother, why close the competition at all? Let's check all the Hogan era film and make sure it's all ok?

Golf is a game of honor and for years we've taken the player at his word.
If we go the other way, and have a camera and viewers on EVERY shot, the assumption becomes we no longer have to abide by that honor code, and if the viewer/camera didn't call it in, there's no foul.
I prefer the old way, warts and all. I certainly don't like the recent (yesterday) interpretation as it only clouds the issue.

Hogan's generation didn't grow up with Child Worship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4   kids actually were taught values and character instead of winning at all costs like today.  I prefer the traditional way too, but we have too many cheats and too many turn the other way folks.  Nancy Lopez would have never acted in the manor Lexi did.  Look at that caddie that got into it with Jimeniz not that long ago, a caddie never would of intervened 30 plus years ago.  The affects of child worship has ruined the honor system in golf.  I don't know how to fix that or if we even have the will

[Dave Doxey]

When one cheats, they take a chance of getting caught.  If a camera happens to be on them, they're caught.  Just because someone else gets away with cheating because they are not caught on camera does not excuse the cheater who got caught.  Stopping the use of camera shots for penalties is simply hiding the problem and promoting cheating.


Expecting pros to police each other is foolish.  It's common knowledge that pros are very hesitant to call a penalty on another player.  When it happens, it is rare.  More often they look the other way.


I'll believe that the field "gets protected" when players start marking balls hear the hole when others chip, or when someone calls Langer for anchoring.

[jeffwarne]

When one cheats, they take a chance of getting caught.  If a camera happens to be on them, they're caught.  Just because someone else gets away with cheating because they are not caught on camera does

Dave,
aside form the Lexi situation(which is perhaps debateable that it was intentional), when has the camera caught anyone actually cheating?
Has it really come to this that you guys think players are cheating , or will if a camera is not on them?

[Dave Doxey]

When one cheats, they take a chance of getting caught.  If a camera happens to be on them, they're caught.  Just because someone else gets away with cheating because they are not caught on camera does

Dave,
aside form the Lexi situation(which is perhaps debateable that it was intentional), when has the camera caught anyone actually cheating?
Has it really come to this that you guys think players are cheating , or will if a camera is not on them?

A Golf Digest survey found that more that half of tour caddies admitted that they have witnessed cheating on the tour.


Most professionals have integrity and do not cheat, but a few clearly do.


A player who does not cheat has nothing to fear from a camera and will accept a rare penalty for an accidental infraction.

[Ken Moum]

Ken


 If you are arguing that the players are not willing to carry out their responsibilities then the entire concept of golf as a game of honour etc is merely a wishful dream anyway.  You can't have it both ways.  Either golf is in the main policed by players or by outside officials using tv.  I think the non-tv approach is about as consistent as it can be.
Ciao

I wasn't arguing that pros aren't willing to do their job, I was pointing out that Jack Nicklaus, Phil Mickelson and Brandel Chamblee were willing to go on televison and publicly state that they personally had witnessed rules violations without ever doing anything.


I contend that the real reason this shit happens, and it isn't all that uncommon, is that a lot of pros--perhaps most of them--think golf should be a game of skill with as little luck involved as possible. They'd play lift clean and place every day and be perfectly happy.


And... they are, mostly, ignorant about the rules.


According to reports I've read, the only professional ever to show up at a 2-day rules seminar is Annika Sorenstam.  That's stupid.


I hear (on PGA Tour Radio) how impossibly complicated the rules are...


But, in my 20s, I had a younger friend get cheated out of a trip to the High School State Tournament by a group of coaches COMPLETELY butchering a ruling and it prompted me to learn a bit about the rules.


I began by reading a couple of pages of the ROG each night before going to sleep. Then I borrowed my course's copy of Decisions and doing the same thing.  What I discovered is that there's nothing at all complicated about the rules. What makes for some complication is the fact that golf is played on a large, complex playing ground.


Of course the other factor is that stroke play has "required" all sorts of decisions intended to make the game fair...


Ignorance of the rules is even worse among amateurs, even those who play at relatively high levels. Playing in a State Championship, I have personally been chewed out for expecting take a stroke for taking multiple divots with practice swing in a hazard, and for requiring him to to make a correct drop that was 150 yards farther from the hole than he wanted.  Our fellow competitor, and his marker, admitted that he was unwilling to do the same thing.


After the ANA debacle, I decided that I am in favor of the pros playing L,C&P everywhere, including the putting green and hazards.  It would eliminate as much luck as possible, maybe then they'd stop bitching.


K

[Niall C]

Jim


Lexi should be given the callers/viewers number so she can call and thank him/her for bringing the infraction to light before it was too late.
It'd have been unimaginably worse had it been Monday.

Why? Unimaginably worse?


People either think she cheated, or they don't.
Most would see that she won by four, assume she should've been penalized 2 shots, and move on.
Those who think she cheated would've been , and are, unhappy either way.


I've read today's "ruling/interpretation" twice, and I'm still confused.
Seems to me they still continue to empower the caller on the couch-just perhaps in more limited circumstances.
It's a game of honor.
Anyone who routinely marks as Lexi did would be taken care of by the players eventually.
Golf is great because it gives the player, not some clown on the couch, the benefit of the doubt.

Jeff

From what I've seen of the incident I've got to agree with Mike. If no penalty had been applied on the dubious basis that it was too late then there would always have been a question mark over her about cheating her way to a win. As it is I think the rules officials fudged it in that they didn't speak to her to find out her story before imposing the penalty (as I understand it) when there appears to be a fairly strong case to answer on whether she cheated.

I mean bending down, marking and lifting the ball and then placing it back down almost immediately on a different spot without turning or inspecting the ball or moving from the crouched position, what else could she be doing but deliberately moving the ball to another position ? There may be an alternative explanation (and the officials should have asked for it IMO) but I'm struggling to think what it might be.

Niall

[Mark Kiely]

  I have some questions for those who oppose penalties being applied the next day, but prior to the conclusion of the event: Why do you feel this way? If you were competing in an event and found proof that someone cheated the previous day but no official saw it at the time, wouldn’t you want the cheater penalized? (I’m not talking about Lexi. This is a hypothetical.) Why are you ok with people getting away with cheating just because the sun went down and rose again?

[JESII]

Mark,


I'm not sure which side of that question I'm on but your question begs the question..."why should the end of the tournament be the line drawn"?

[Michael Felton]

Some of these may have been covered along the way, I couldn't read every comment in full, but a couple of thoughts.


I don't think it's a great idea to rely solely on fellow competitors to watch out for rules violations. They are off worrying about their own shots, as they should be. The game is slow enough as it is. If both playing partners stand and watch intently the entire time that someone is playing, it'll take four days to play one round.


When a player signs their scorecard, they are putting their name to their score. They are effectively stating "hey everyone, this is what I scored and you can trust that the score on the board is correct". If it subsequently turns out that it wasn't correct, I think it's reasonably to hold them accountable. Other players are making decisions on the basis of the affirmed scores posted. I do think it's unreasonable to penalise someone after they have signed their card if there was no way for them to know that the score was incorrect. It is however the responsibility of every player to know the rules. Given that the rules now state that infractions will only be deemed infractions if they could reasonably be detected by the naked eye, it's hard to imagine a situation where someone could completely innocently sign for an incorrect score.


Jim - the end of the tournament seems like a perfectly reasonable point to draw the line to me. The winner of the tournament is the person who takes the fewest strokes to complete 72 holes. That those 72 holes are broken up into 18 hole subsets is to my mind somewhat arbitrary. It's really only the 72 holes that matter. If player A does something on the 12th hole of round 1 and player B does the exact same thing on the 14th hole of round 4, but both infractions are discovered at the same time in the same tournament, why would you penalise one and not the other?


Lastly, if you follow the rules and don't do anything stupid, then you have nothing to worry about from call-ins. If you mark your ball, put it back where you picked it up from. If Lexi didn't gain any advantage by marking and replacing the ball in a quite clearly different spot, then why on earth did she do it? She clearly decided to mark it for a reason. I don't know what that reason was and I'm not going to say that she cheated because I have no clue what was going through her mind, but it does make me wonder why she did it.

[Mike Schott]

I'm actually changing my stance on this.  I have thought about this ruling for the past 3 weeks or so.  I have practically given up with the idea of people playing a game Professionally and having a ton of respect for the game that it brings a higher form of humility in them.  I remember the 96 Masters Press conference where Norman said he isn't going to headbutt an official, as he was referring to the NBA.  I don't want Golf to be like other sports, how many NFL players have police records? 

Lexi's attitude to the rules official "is this a joke'' and ''whatever'' makes me cringe.   She handled it like a 10 year old IMO.  It was Jack Nicklaus who changed my mind.  He has most always taken the proper stance (excluding the President's Cup tie).  He called it right with Casey Martin and he flat out said she cheated.  What if a player kicks a ball in the rough and it's seen on video?  I'd of rather she was DQed for cheating.  I don't like the idea of people calling in, but I want Golf to be a game of honor.  I guess i need to start following Rugby, I hear it's honorable game.  It's so sad how low the bar has been set.  The UKers made some great insightful posts.

You and some others are missing the point. Yes, according to the rules she cheated. I don't think she ever denied that she misplaced her mark. The justified criticism is the severity of the penalty. No need to elaborate.


By the way how would you handle being told in the middle of the following round of a major that you were being assessed a 4 stroke penalty from the previous day based on a TV viewer's phone call or email?

[Mike Schott]

If we're going to go all big brother, why close the competition at all? Let's check all the Hogan era film and make sure it's all ok?

Golf is a game of honor and for years we've taken the player at his word.
If we go the other way, and have a camera and viewers on EVERY shot, the assumption becomes we no longer have to abide by that honor code, and if the viewer/camera didn't call it in, there's no foul.
I prefer the old way, warts and all. I certainly don't like the recent (yesterday) interpretation as it only clouds the issue.

Hogan's generation didn't grow up with Child Worship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4   kids actually were taught values and character instead of winning at all costs like today.  I prefer the traditional way too, but we have too many cheats and too many turn the other way folks.  Nancy Lopez would have never acted in the manor Lexi did.  Look at that caddie that got into it with Jimeniz not that long ago, a caddie never would of intervened 30 plus years ago.  The affects of child worship has ruined the honor system in golf.  I don't know how to fix that or if we even have the will

As far as Lopez, she played and grew up in a different era and by the way we did not have HD TV and dozens of cameras all over the course in her day.

[V. Kmetz]

Hello,


1. In this narrow instance (replacing the ball) I haven't heard the honorable purists remark that there should be NO marking of the ball on the green, except where it interferes with a line of play/putt...and even THEN, no cleaning...it should be treated like a mark off the green - held visibly in the fingers of the hand until replaced. THAT's the truest primitive, brimstone spirit of the game. And that'll quell 95% of this issue.


2.  Nor have I heard the honorable purists, talk about the difference between spike marks and ball marks and what you get to fix, or why the procedure for swiping off detritus has taken up hours of Committee time, and laying down a towel so your trousers aren't soiled is building a stance....why ANYTHING or everything isn't fixed, why is one rub of the green and the other a legislated forbearance to that rub?


3.. Most curiously I have not heard the honorable purists make note that the exact same nano-tolerance, with which Lexi Thompson erred, is broached (and likely exceeded) 200 - 400x a 72 hole tournament, with the whole "1 or 2 putter-head routine," where the marker is moved and lined up with a tree or a rock or a fence post in the background. How many of those coins (and THEN replaced golf balls) are re-marked with a greater degree of error than Lexi Thompson..not only on the Tours, not only in the clubs, but by you...?


3b. I can anticipate the purists to respond, "But the point is you are always on your honor, all parties are supposed to be trying their best for maximum accuracy."...to which I reply, "An easier claim when there is no way to measure it (unless some jackass puts on his Lancelot tin-armor and calls in from his 60" billion pixel TV to get in on the action.)" One member of a foursome marks his ball with a pin, another guy marks his with a penny, another a poker chip and the last guy, a discus...who's going to have the greater degree of accuracy, I ask you? Are these guys playing the same game as each other, under an almost, "baked-in" tolerance-breach the honorable purists deem Lexi's result, "just?" Isn't the very fact-size of the marker show intent and dishonor?


3c I know ( for I, like you, witnessed it) Lexi's ball was replaced a 1/12th of inch from what I saw was its original spot. Yet when replaced, it STILL was:

• in front of her marker,
• and the same distance from the marker,
• and several blades of grass where her ball rested BEFORE it was marked were still touched by the ball AFTER she re-marked...

Doesn't that constitute "sameness?" Maybe not for you, but for me...it most demonstrably does. By ANY reasonable definition as to what constitutes equity and a fairly played competition of the kind Tom Watson would be proud (which is the real point of any exhibited competition, isn't it?), how did this breach and her subsequent score protect the field in any way?  How did this decision help the exhibitors to produce the champion of most playing merit?If you maintain, that she KNEW, WANTED, DESIRED that 12th of inch, then you are insane. The only (and I mean THE ONLY) way you have conjured up that sophistry is that it happened in 2.8 seconds from mark to re-mark...if she marked pocketed the ball, or merely stood up, you wouldn't have remembered or noticed the difference...it was that small and you know it...small enough to realize the player was looking at the line of her ball, focused in that practiced habit and about to make an "in-the leather" putt , not a player seeking an edge. If you think that, then I believe that you think in a particularly craven way about this enterprise.[size=78%]


And as to this idea that the rules are not complex? That they are easily followed with a pure heart? That doesn't hold water...Jesus Christ! What other sport has a well-known Book of Decisions, like a summer class in Contracts, and has had so many recent major championships decided at the point of these knives? Holy Shite, sometimes the officials THEMSELVES don't get it right/mis-interpret and have to make decisions by the seat of their pants.


It comes down to this: Do you think Lexi Thompson desired an edge in replacing her ball in 2.8 seconds? Or do you think in a lightning blink, concentrated on a routine, short putt in the 3rd round, she thought she put it back correctly? Or do you think she has no stain, except that she was upset and is supported in her grievance by those like me who think this is not the point. This is sheer, pompous madness.


cheers
vk[/size]

[BCowan]

I'm actually changing my stance on this.  I have thought about this ruling for the past 3 weeks or so.  I have practically given up with the idea of people playing a game Professionally and having a ton of respect for the game that it brings a higher form of humility in them.  I remember the 96 Masters Press conference where Norman said he isn't going to headbutt an official, as he was referring to the NBA.  I don't want Golf to be like other sports, how many NFL players have police records? 

Lexi's attitude to the rules official "is this a joke'' and ''whatever'' makes me cringe.   She handled it like a 10 year old IMO.  It was Jack Nicklaus who changed my mind.  He has most always taken the proper stance (excluding the President's Cup tie).  He called it right with Casey Martin and he flat out said she cheated.  What if a player kicks a ball in the rough and it's seen on video?  I'd of rather she was DQed for cheating.  I don't like the idea of people calling in, but I want Golf to be a game of honor.  I guess i need to start following Rugby, I hear it's honorable game.  It's so sad how low the bar has been set.  The UKers made some great insightful posts.

You and some others are missing the point. Yes, according to the rules she cheated. I don't think she ever denied that she misplaced her mark. The justified criticism is the severity of the penalty. No need to elaborate.


By the way how would you handle being told in the middle of the following round of a major that you were being assessed a 4 stroke penalty from the previous day based on a TV viewer's phone call or email?

We arent missing the point, it isn't about a stupid rule like DJ at the PGA or his ball moving on a green cut way too short at Oakmont.  Those were very unfortunate and idiotic calls and rules.  I personally think Lexi cheated with intent.


As far as how I would handle that situation, I've called a penalty on myself with my ball moving on the green after I addressed it on fast greens.  No one saw the infraction except me.  It was an Ohio Am qualifier and district qualifier.  I would hope I wouldn't of handled it like a brat.  she was flipped with the rules committee and there is no place for that in Golf.   Prior to the rules change she would have been DQed, which would of been just IMO. 


Ive had a great deal of experience with the lpga for last 25 years, we have the Klinger classic in toledo for close to 30 years.  Meg Mallon was first round leader after firing a 65. Later video showed that she waited  more then 10 seconds for her ball hanging on the edge. She signed an incorrect scorecard and got DQed.  I was right by her when she did the interview, very classy.  A rule that was not a common player experience such as marking a ball in which Lexi more then butchered.


As far as Nancy Lopez, i have many years experience in the ropes at lpga events and have watched Nancy for many years in my younger days, she never would have acted flippined as Lexi.  She would of had humilty, plus she would have never marked a ball in Lexi's manner.  There have been viewer call ins for a long time before HD.


 Those chaps on the couch pay the bills remember.   Luckily Jack and a few others said how they felt verse worrying about if it was popular opinion.

[Mark Pearce]

VK, you talk about purists almost with contempt.  Well, call me a purist.  But get that log out of your eye.  In the Thompson case we weren't talking about any "nano-tolerance" (there you go, that same ever so clever contempt) but a good few couple of centimetres or more,  This wasn't a ruling that took the rules to extremes.  This wasn't a ruling that the new change would make any difference to.  This was a player in one move mark a ball, lift it and replace it in a different position.  This was cheating.


Someone above asked when have we ever seen a player actually caught cheating on film.  Well, if the bleeding hearts aren't willing to accept that this instance was just that, then they're always going to give the benefit of the doubt, because it really doesn't get much more obvious than this.  That said, I remember Tiger dropping the ball after hitting into water a few years back in a spot that simply could not have been anywhere near where the ball entered the hazard.  That said, his fellow competitor and a rues official were complicit in that.

[Sean_A]

One thing is certain.  The use of tv in rule decision-making is altering the rules and I would argue the fabric of the game in a very unintended way.  I think it prudent that the blue suits should come up with a far better policy then was released not long ago or these type of incidents will continue. Now is the time to be proactive and actually decide how much the rules and the game should be impacted by tv. Avoiding the conversation simply leaves decision making in the hands of short-sighted chaos.  We have seen too much of this already.  The outcome of this conversation may have far reaching consequences which could impact golf as a major spectator sport and ultimately effect how many golfers exist in the future.  This sort of policy making is far too important to be left up to folks with any sort of agenda.

Ciao

[BCowan]

VK, you talk about purists almost with contempt.  Well, call me a purist.  But get that log out of your eye.  In the Thompson case we weren't talking about any "nano-tolerance" (there you go, that same ever so clever contempt) but a good few couple of centimetres or more,  This wasn't a ruling that took the rules to extremes.  This wasn't a ruling that the new change would make any difference to.  This was a player in one move mark a ball, lift it and replace it in a different position.  This was cheating.


Someone above asked when have we ever seen a player actually caught cheating on film.  Well, if the bleeding hearts aren't willing to accept that this instance was just that, then they're always going to give the benefit of the doubt, because it really doesn't get much more obvious than this.  That said, I remember Tiger dropping the ball after hitting into water a few years back in a spot that simply could not have been anywhere near where the ball entered the hazard.  That said, his fellow competitor and a rues official were complicit in that.

Mark,


Spot on.  The Masters has a history of looking the other way with rules infractions. Remember it's a private invitational tourney.  The bleeding hearts have ruined almost everything good in society.  I'm certain with all these modern day drawn out pre shot routines players are wrapped up in their own little world to police their fellow cheats. 

[Mike Schott]

I'm actually changing my stance on this.  I have thought about this ruling for the past 3 weeks or so.  I have practically given up with the idea of people playing a game Professionally and having a ton of respect for the game that it brings a higher form of humility in them.  I remember the 96 Masters Press conference where Norman said he isn't going to headbutt an official, as he was referring to the NBA.  I don't want Golf to be like other sports, how many NFL players have police records? 

Lexi's attitude to the rules official "is this a joke'' and ''whatever'' makes me cringe.   She handled it like a 10 year old IMO.  It was Jack Nicklaus who changed my mind.  He has most always taken the proper stance (excluding the President's Cup tie).  He called it right with Casey Martin and he flat out said she cheated.  What if a player kicks a ball in the rough and it's seen on video?  I'd of rather she was DQed for cheating.  I don't like the idea of people calling in, but I want Golf to be a game of honor.  I guess i need to start following Rugby, I hear it's honorable game.  It's so sad how low the bar has been set.  The UKers made some great insightful posts.

You and some others are missing the point. Yes, according to the rules she cheated. I don't think she ever denied that she misplaced her mark. The justified criticism is the severity of the penalty. No need to elaborate.


By the way how would you handle being told in the middle of the following round of a major that you were being assessed a 4 stroke penalty from the previous day based on a TV viewer's phone call or email?

We arent missing the point, it isn't about a stupid rule like DJ at the PGA or his ball moving on a green cut way too short at Oakmont.  Those were very unfortunate and idiotic calls and rules.  I personally think Lexi cheated with intent.


As far as how I would handle that situation, I've called a penalty on myself with my ball moving on the green after I addressed it on fast greens.  No one saw the infraction except me.  It was an Ohio Am qualifier and district qualifier.  I would hope I wouldn't of handled it like a brat.  she was flipped with the rules committee and there is no place for that in Golf.   Prior to the rules change she would have been DQed, which would of been just IMO. 


Ive had a great deal of experience with the lpga for last 25 years, we have the Klinger classic in toledo for close to 30 years.  Meg Mallon was first round leader after firing a 65. Later video showed that she waited  more then 10 seconds for her ball hanging on the edge. She signed an incorrect scorecard and got DQed.  I was right by her when she did the interview, very classy.  A rule that was not a common player experience such as marking a ball in which Lexi more then butchered.


As far as Nancy Lopez, i have many years experience in the ropes at lpga events and have watched Nancy for many years in my younger days, she never would have acted flippined as Lexi.  She would of had humilty, plus she would have never marked a ball in Lexi's manner.  There have been viewer call ins for a long time before HD.


 Those chaps on the couch pay the bills remember.   Luckily Jack and a few others said how they felt verse worrying about if it was popular opinion.

Why do you think Lexi did it on purpose? Wasn't it like an 18-24" putt? I see no advantage to moving the ball a fraction of an inch.

[BCowan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-QNKZr2leg

[Niall C]

Mike

A couple of things, firstly in relation to your post no. 315, as far as I know the player hasn't put her hand up to cheating. She may have recognised that she infringed the rules but that is a world away from cheating. Cheating is a deliberate infringement of the rules in order to gain an advantage. As far as I'm aware she has never been quizzed as to why she did what she did and what her intent was. That is a major failing of the relevant golf authorities who in this instance I'd suggest are the tournament organisers and the LPGA Tour.

The second point relates to your question of what advantage would she have gained. Simply put a shift of position might mean she could miss having to putt out of or over a spike mark or some such blemish. Pat in an earlier post outlined very well the impact that could have.

Niall

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