[Pete_Pittock]

Timing:
if she is notified before signing the card and turning it in she is assessed the penalty.
If she has turned in the card, and a penalty is not included, and this is discovered before the end of the tournament, she is assessed the penalty and an additional two stroke penalty on the hole where the incident occurred. (before 1/1/16 the incident  resulted in disqualification.
After the tournament is finished the only penalty that can be assessed is a disqualification where a player knew they breached a rule and was not penalized. There is no statute of limitations for this.   


I have not seen the tape so will not comment.
There are no stupid rules, but there may be rules you think are stupid.
I think that if some viewer calls in they should be required to give contact information so the player can thank them later on.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I wonder if she were a Democrat instead of a Republican if this would have been called in?

You managed to make the stupidest comment in a thread with a LOT of stupid comments.

[John Kirk]

It appears to me she deliberately replaced the ball about 3/4" from its original resting place.  Furthermore, it wasn't a situation where she marked the ball, then picked the ball up until another shot was played.

Bringing politics into this thread risks a breakdown in the recent propriety on this board.  That pissed me off.

[Don Jordan]

Timing:
if she is notified before signing the card and turning it in she is assessed the penalty.
If she has turned in the card, and a penalty is not included, and this is discovered before the end of the tournament, she is assessed the penalty and an additional two stroke penalty on the hole where the incident occurred. (before 1/1/16 the incident  resulted in disqualification.
After the tournament is finished the only penalty that can be assessed is a disqualification where a player knew they breached a rule and was not penalized. There is no statute of limitations for this.   


I have not seen the tape so will not comment.
There are no stupid rules, but there may be rules you think are stupid.
I think that if some viewer calls in they should be required to give contact information so the player can thank them later on.

The DQ rule went out the window with the Tiger Masters fiasco. I know they explained it away but that "ruling" made it very difficult to DQ a player after the fact. It is a strange one, it is a penalty but is it worth 4 shots and a major? By that standard there would be a lot of players who got away with something during that tournament.

[Matthew Rose]

Politics aside, what if the viewer does have some kind of an agenda? Perhaps a wager? You can't guarantee the impartiality or neutrality of the person making a call such as this.... regardless of whether they are correct or incorrect.

[Thomas Dai]

Not a great episode in the history of golf....although the 3rd round of a tournament is sometimes described as "Moving Day".


Atb

[Sean_A]

She only needs a bigger coin. btw: I make the silly bastards that mark with poker chips put those things back in their pockets.

Don't be a dumb ass.  The marker could be a flippin plate, it doesn't change where the ball was when picked up or where it should be when placed.

I've said for years that they should not answer the phone when someone's calling about a rules issue...but if they are going to answer it, have the balls to rule correctly.

Why is there a phone line?


To me, once the card is in its in....that is the score.  If playing partners and officlals miss something they miss it forever.  If they see something there is a duty to raise the issue on the spot, not wait until card signing time.  I cannot understand why we constantly have this issue coming up.  Set the rule and stand by it.  It would be quite interesting to watch a hockey game where the score changes after a period or the game because a penalty is now being applied.  What a load of nonsense.

I advocate for in other sports that if a flagrant foul is committed which jeapardizes the safety of others than the matter should be taken in hand to discuss fines/suspensions/warnings.  I can't see why this can't be done with golf for obviously breaking the rules.  I have no problem with a player winning a tourny, then being assessed some sort of sanction for breaking the rules which weren't picked up....certainly the players can't bitch.  This could easily be part of bifurcated rules which we should already have anyhow.

Thats life, everything cannot be seen live for there to be sanctions on the spot...accept this and move on. 

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

This will put people off golf. I agree that the signed score agree is fixed. Imagine Roberto De Vincenzo had he been warned by TV regarding his score things might have been different

She only needs a bigger coin. btw: I make the silly bastards that mark with poker chips put those things back in their pockets.

Don't be a dumb ass.  The marker could be a flippin plate, it doesn't change where the ball was when picked up or where it should be when placed.

I've said for years that they should not answer the phone when someone's calling about a rules issue...but if they are going to answer it, have the balls to rule correctly.

Why is there a phone line?


To me, once the card is in its in....that is the score.  If playing partners and officlals miss something they miss it forever.  If they see something there is a duty to raise the issue on the spot, not wait until card signing time.  I cannot understand why we constantly have this issue coming up.  Set the rule and stand by it.  It would be quite interesting to watch a hockey game where the score changes after a period or the game because a penalty is now being applied.  What a load of nonsense.

I advocate for in other sports that if a flagrant foul is committed which jeapardizes the safety of others than the matter should be taken in hand to discuss fines/suspensions/warnings.  I can't see why this can't be done with golf for obviously breaking the rules.  I have no problem with a player winning a tourny, then being assessed some sort of sanction for breaking the rules which weren't picked up....certainly the players can't bitch.  This could easily be part of bifurcated rules which we should already have anyhow.

Thats life, everything cannot be seen live for there to be sanctions on the spot...accept this and move on. 

Ciao

[Ruediger Meyer]

I see it a bit different. This was a pretty outrageous infraction. She took the ball up, put it right down and somehow put the ball a few centimeters closer to the hole in the process. On this kind of short putt this might be the difference between a lip out and a holed putt.

Elliot Saltman got banned and ostracized for this kind of action. And somehow everyone is giving Lexi a pass because a viewer phoned it in instead of a competitor?

[BCowan]

I see it a bit different. This was a pretty outrageous infraction. She took the ball up, put it right down and somehow put the ball a few centimeters closer to the hole in the process. On this kind of short putt this might be the difference between a lip out and a holed putt.

Elliot Saltman got banned and ostracized for this kind of action. And somehow everyone is giving Lexi a pass because a viewer phoned it in instead of a competitor?

Yes, there is a big difference. It takes guts to call a rules infraction on another player. We teach kids to tell on others. It was a day after, after the scorecard was signed.  What is the point of signing a scorecard? 


I've watched the video 3 times and it's a horrible angle, too much uncertainty and this is besides the point. 

[Ben Attwood]

What happened to this rule?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/25006871

I guess this was not a case of the ball moving but “movement was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time” seems like it could apply.
Lexi looks to have done it accidentally with no advantage gained. How much have the spirit of the rules changed? Compare it to the decision made following the 1957 open after someone noticed a discrepancy on TV viewing and called in:

"A mini-controversy surrounded the ending of the championship. Lying two, Bobby Locke was only four feet from the cup on the 72nd hole when he moved his ball marker one putter-head length to avoid the line of fellow competitor Bruce Crampton's putt. After Crampton holed out, Locke forgot to replace his ball to its original position and proceeded to sink his four-foot putt. Only much later were tournament officials made aware of Locke's mistake. The Championship Committee decreed that no advantage had been gained and that the result, and Locke's three-stroke victory, stood". (Wikipedia)

[jeffwarne]

Politics aside, what if the viewer does have some kind of an agenda? Perhaps a wager? You can't guarantee the impartiality or neutrality of the person making a call such as this.... regardless of whether they are correct or incorrect.

Bingo.
Is that viewer calling it in if he has Lexi at 10:1?


You can't change the resultson Monday (competition closed)
So why not "close" after each round completed.
Simple solutions--but instead we're going to clutter up and change a bunch of rules that don't need changing that most definitely will result in unintended consequences.

[jeffwarne]

So if Sherlock Holmes sees the violation live and calls/emails in immediately, then Lexi is notified by officials yesterday of her 2 stroke penalty and signs a correct scorecard. But in this case Sherlock was too busy on Saturday to actually tune in so he's late in performing his public service and because of his laggardness there's an extra 2 strokes tacked on. Ok, that sounds about right. Worse yet, he sees it live but turns out he's pulling for Petterson and knows that if he waits until today to notify....

Perfectly summed up.
Now the CALLER can take an even bigger role by
A. determining whether or not to call the penalty
B.  determining how large the penalty is


Total farce of a rule not seen in any other sport
Simple fix-but the USGA is too busy studying the fact that the ball is not going farther.
And the Tours could easily have a local rule if the USGA decides to keep their heads buried in the sand (without grounding their clubs of course)

[jeffwarne]

  probably you...


perhaps the will also cause player's review of the habit of marking their ball incessantly, even on short putts, a bad habit.. just putt the damn thing in the hole and move on, unless its match play of course

Or just play by the rules. I never understand why there is such a groundswell of support to see a player get away with a flagrant rules violation.

The groundswell is about a stupid rule administered stupidly.

Which rule? The one about properly marking your ball or the one about accurately recording your score? Which one is stupid?

Well, read the dozen or so comments made in this thread having to due with the arbitrary nature of the rule and especially the timing of how it was applied in this case.

Second time I will ask what rule?


She marked her ball nearer the hole, signed for an inaccurate score and is somehow the victim. Which rule is specifically stupid and how? I'm not a big fan of marking the ball nearer the hole or submitting and signing for an inaccurate score.


Mark your ball like a player and the rules are fine.

I'll give you the first part...2 strokes
but not the incorrect card.
The rule should be changed to waive the incorrect card penalty when the player was unaware there was a rules infraction at the time of signing.


But that would be common sense.
But wait ...the ball's not going further because studies say so.

[John Kavanaugh]

Now the rules officials can get more camera time as they are called in by the player asking for verification of a marked ball. We all see our ball come to rest in a pock mark and move it out...Now our buddies are going to have camera phone at bay recording every mark and remark. That will speed things up.

[Ruediger Meyer]

I'll give you the first part...2 strokes
but not the incorrect card.
The rule should be changed to waive the incorrect card penalty when the player was unaware there was a rules infraction at the time of signing.


But that would be common sense.
But wait ...the ball's not going further because studies say so.

Here is the problem: If you have a serial cheater (or even an accidental one) on tour who has a 50:50 chance of getting caught by such actions (and if you are not one of the stars maybe only a 10% chance). What is the harm for you to not call any rule infraction on yourself if the penalty stays the same no matter if you call it on yourself or it is discovered later?

[Jonathan Mallard]

   Northwestern should be placed in NCAA finals. TV should rule all officiating. Absurd.

Princeton is still the only #16 seed to win a tournament game.

[Brian Walshe]

Watch the entire piece of video and not just the close up of her marking the ball and replacing it.  She has a putt of a foot or so, walks up to putt it, gets over the ball ready to putt and then reaches down, marks the ball to the side, lifts the ball a few inches and replaces it in front of the marker.  She doesn't clean anything off the ball. She doesn't rotate the ball to change the alignment of a mark.  She doesn't reset and get behind the ball and start her routine again.  She just knocks it in.  Watch the whole video and make up your own mind.


The two shots for signing an incorrect card is a nonsense, she should have been pinged 2 shots not 4.  She had no way of knowing that the score she signed was going to be made incorrect the next day by the committee.

[Craig Sweet]

How many people commenting on this saw this in real time on Saturday? Could you tell where she marked and where she replaced her ball in real time? Can you tell, unless there's a close up, how accurately anyone replaces there ball after marking?


What the Golf Channel showed was a very grainy, fuzzy, zoomed in, blown up, video...followed by a real time, as it happened video. There was NO way a viewer at home could tell where the ball was in relation to the mark from the real time TV coverage.  And that begs the question...how sick is someone that tapes a tournament and then, using today's technology, zooms in looking for violations on the green, in bunkers, in the rough, of shot after shot?  Where does this end? Do we start calling in to MLB the day after a came with evidence that the umpire missed a called strike on the pitch before a player hits a game winning home run?  Do we call in hours after a football match with evidence that a player was offside before scoring a goal and have the score of the game changed?


The USGA and the R&A need to simply say that they no longer will listen to people calling in with possible infractions after the fact...The violation is either noted by the player, the players opponents, or the rules official with the group.  End of story.

[John Connolly]

I admit a certain ambivalence regarding this. While I too think it's an impossible situation to allow call-ins, after reviewing this infraction over and over, I can only come to conclude she was hoping to gain an advantage with her new ball position - either move it off a turf defect, or possibly avoid one on the path to the hole. For someone who's meticulous enough to re-mark and realign a two foot putt, she sure lost her "meticulousness" when replacing her ball. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[Padraig Dooley]

The USGA and the R&A need to simply say that they no longer will listen to people calling in with possible infractions after the fact...The violation is either noted by the player, the players opponents, or the rules official with the group.  End of story.

What if in the Masters this week someone kicks their ball from behind a tree, the camera sees it but no one else does? Is this infraction to be ignored?

[JESII]

Watch the video...she did rotate the ball to have the logo on the hole side of the ball. Definitely less incriminating to me...looks like just a careless mistake in the heat of a major...but who in the world marks the ball on the side like that?

[Jim Franklin]

Can you imagine MLB taking a call from a viewer saying the shortstop missed second base??? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! Golf is a joke.

[Dan Kelly]

The PGA Tour and the LPGA Tour need to assign a rules official to watch the damned telecasts, carefully, and make any rules decisions based on those telecasts.
[/size]If the designated watcher doesn't see something, then it should be No Harm, No Foul.
[/size]Thompson penalty is crazy-seeming -- but she did CLEARLY replace the ball in the wrong spot. Who knows why? Carelessness? To avoid a spike mark? As I said: Who knows? Penalty: two shots.
[/size]But the extra two-shot penalty should never happen again -- and wouldn't, if the Tours themselves would assume responsibility for enforcing the rules.
[/size]

[Doug_Feeney]

She doesn't rotate the ball to change the alignment of a mark. 

She very much does rotate the ball before she replaces it - aligns it in a way that she isn't looking at any marks or logos. 


Professionals are extremely precise in how they mark and replace their ball.  In their world her mistake is fairly significant and makes me question how/why she would be so careless.

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